A violation of team rules could be: Being late for practice so many times.
Being absent for team meetings with no excuse. Not attending classes. Getting
poor grades. I'm sure there must be a relatively large grocery list of
things that translate to the violation of team rules. And, the honor code
violations are also part of the team rules. It's just that everybody
thinks honor code when it could be something entirely different. And why would
the university even want to make a comment on it anyways? It's really
Re:Reno Cougs Fan 68I haven't heard anything of this, but say
somehow you are right and Michigan does buy out Utah, and does not play at RES
in 2015.In 2015 Utah still would have home games against: Arizona
State, UCLA, Oregon State, and Washington.You must be a little
bitter that BYU went to South Bend 2 years in a row and Notre Dame hasn't
scheduled a return trip to Provo.(Michigan has a date with Utah at RES,
(they may get out of it, but a date is better than what BYU has with ND coming
to Provo (no scheduled date)).
Regarding the article - I love to take an occasional shot at Holmoe but in this
case completely agree with his decision. Simply state the player violated a
rule and nothing else. Just like every other U or Y article, some
fans from the other school will make valid comments and others will take cheap
shots. In reply some posters will take more cheap shots and claim they are
justified because the other side 'started it'. I thoroughly enjoy the
good natured banter but most of the posts go far beyond that.
A couple of commenters seem to interpret Holmoe's statement to indicate
there will be a different approach to handling discipline for Honor Code
violations. I don't see that in his statement at all. No indication that
the coach or anyone else will be more involved in the process or have any input
in the result or that there is any other change in the methodology.Instead, the only change is with respect to what public statement will (or
won't) be made.BTW, if I were a coach, I wouldn't use the
term "violation of team rules" regardless of whether the infraction was
a violation of team rules or an Honor Code violation. I would say only that
the athlete "is currently ineligible to participate."
Wookie,Many schools have team rules that mirror the honor code.
Those rules are for the team and not the general student population. They just
don't parade them in public. Also, many secular schools have a Code of
Conduct that the general student population must abide by in order to stay
enrolled. These rules go well beyond just living within the civil law.
“I’d like to continue (scheduling) with the Pac-12 because
that’s where our biggest fan base is,” Holmoe said. “Travel is
better. But we’d be remiss if we didn’t take the opportunities to
play across the country. I’d always start in the Pac-12, and go from
there.”PAC-12 - where byu's biggest fan base is. I hope
they schedule as many PAC-12 games as possible, so as to squash the
"we've beaten more PAC-12 schools than you have" spin, after
experiencing first-hand what playing premium competition is really like.If you ask me, Holmoe wants to schedule as many PAC-12 games, because if
you can't beat 'em, try and join them in your own minds!
Idablu, you ask why? I ask why not? Is not the honor code an obligation that
each student is required to follow in order to attend BYU? As for explaining
what the Honor Code violation was, the public has no right to know and quite
frankly no one needs to know that there was an honor code violation to begin
with, but, unfortunately, that is not the life of an athlete. To claim it was
in violation of team rules seems to be covering up what it really was; an honor
code violation. I would assume that with this change BYU may be considering
changing their honor code to Honor Code/Team Rules and for the general student
body; School Rules. Again, this is my opinion, right or wrong it is what it
Dutchman, find me a DIV I school like BYU in the USA that has an honor code with
the same prohibitions?It cheapens the Honor Code in my opinion by
using a play of words and becoming more like the world.GO UTES!!
Parading the HC is prideful, in my opinion, a sin in it's own right. That
is why I applaud this change in policy.
Thanks, Ed Grady. Alas, someone had a change of heart.Tough to have
a grasp on what's considered off topic when studying some of the comments
that are allowed through. And people think the Honor Code Office has a heavy
Tell me wookie, why does the public need to know there was an Honor Code
violation in the suspension of an athlete?Should the University/Honor Code
Office make a press release for every student who violates the Honor Code? Violation of Team Rules may or may not include an Honor Code violation, but
that is NONE OF THE PUBLIC'S BUSINESS.Granted, there is a chance
that "HC violation" might get leaked, but it definitely should not come
from the University or one of its representatives. Other Universities have
certainly shown discretion in protecting the privacy of student athletes who
undergo discipline. Why can't BYU?BYU is rightfully proud of their
Honor Code but to publicly slap the scarlet "HC" on a high profile
transgressor is just plain wrong!
So some on this board want to keep the violations policy as it was because it
cheapens the Honor Code and makes BYU less different than other schools by
simply stating "Violation of Team Rules". My question, how do you know
that a "violation of team rules" at another school didn't mirror a
BYU honor code violation? You don't. BYU is a great place but it
doesn't have a monopoly on moral charachter when it comes to a violation of
team rules at other schools.
BYU tries to discretely answers questions about an athlete's honor code
violations and we get criticized.BYU says it will no longer answer
questions about an athlete's honor code violations and we get
How many BYU fans applauded the press coverage received last year for the
positive light that was shed on the Y and its handling of Hadley? The irony
here is interesting. I agree with the statement earlier that the truth is the
truth and leave it at that. This to me is a way of mixing words and crafting it
in a way that doesn't represent what has happened. The breach of privacy
as to what happened to the student athlete in Davies case was sad. Is it
controversial to say that this change occured due to the increased number of
non-LDS football recruits coming next year?GO UTES!!
Kudos to BYU for finally arriving at this needful change for honor code
violations. This new policy reflecs a more sensitive and reasonable approach to
handling these situations. Many folks felt the "public flogging"
approach taken previously was flawed in many respects and did a disservice to
the high profile student althlets. I certainly commend Tom Holmoe and the BYU
Administration for reviewing and modifying the past practices that were counter
productive for all concerned.
@81 UteYour post is puzzling. Seriously, no more games? How about we
keep the games and learn to be GOOD SPORTS?!! When your kids bicker,
do you send them to their rooms for time out or do you separate them for life?
In the age of social media and cameras everywhere a policy like this or any
other has no real meaning and in fact may serve to fuel even greater speculation
which helps no one- when do you remember the last time an athlete was suspended
at BYU or the U and we had no understanding as to why- we generally know all the
details as soon as the school or even prior to that- this boat has sailed and
all universities can do is try and manage it as best as they can- we will see if
this approach helps but I doubt it will
Holmoe said that future schedules will be as strong as the 2013 schedule,
“if not stronger," adding that, “We need to get stronger to be
able to play that kind of schedule.”------------That might be true, but as of today 2015 doesn't look that much better
then 2014 with 2 games still unscheduled.2015 Schedule: 2 Big Ten
teams, 2 AAC, 5 MWC, 1 CUSA Nearly, half the schedule is made of MWC
teams (8 non-Big 5 teams).
81 Ute and other BYU haters,Why do you even care or feel the need to
comment on the strength or weakness of BYU's 2014 football schedule? BYU
and Utah do not play each other in 2014 or 2015 so it in no way affects the SOS
of Utah!!! At least BYU and their fans are honest in the fact that BYU and Utah
are rivals and always will be, that is why we are still willing to schedule Utah
in as many sports and other activities a you will agree to!!! The funny part of
all this is that Utah will probably miss out on an invite to the Big Dance
because of a weak non-conference schedule this year!!! Could it be that our
brothers up on the hill are looking out for their younger brother down south???
Who will Utah replace Michigan with when they buy out the game in SLC in
2015?Go Cougs!!! Rise Up!!!
@byu9293I agree with you whole heartily. Since 1993 the Utes have taken
byu to the woodshed thirteen of the last twenty times. Including the last four
in a row. Yes you dominated losing by 57-37-4 all time.So please get your fan
base to stop begging for more football games with Utah.
This decision makes a lot of sense, and sounds like a good thing, with one
problem:Is an Honor Code Violation, and Violating Team Rules the
same thing? If not then don't say it.If you can violate team
rules and be suspended from the team and still not break the honor code, then
don't try to downplay an offense and say its a team rules issue, if it was
an honor code issue.Either say NOTHING at all, or speak the truth.
"Don't worry, the Utah compliance office is more than willing to pick
up the slack! ;)"You said exactly what I wanted to say, but I
thought it be censored. Let's not forget the sportswriters at the SL Trib.
They love nothing better than to embarrass BYU athletes.
I agree with Tom's assesments. I also like the WCC for BYU. I would like
to see the WCC improve it's basketball officiating which I think is simply
terrible and not necessarily favorable to any particular team. It's just
really bad and there seems to be a trend to see officiating often
inappropriately favor home teams rather than call them from a completely neutral
perspective. It doesn't matter whether I watch a BYU vs anyone game or any
other two WCC programs. The basketball officiating is simply awful and that is a
disservice to the teams that may move on to tournament play post season. Four
WCC teams will likely play in the post season at some level (NCAA or NIT): BYU,
Gonzaga, Saint Mary's and San Francisco. Those teams and all others in
conference deserve better officials. Other than that, I like Independence and
the direction Tom is taking BYU. I am still not sold on Dave Rose as a future
Dean Smith. Rose has achieved a remarkable W/L record, but he loses too many
games he could have won. Mendenhall is similarly adjudicated in my book.
Bravo! bravo! regarding the Honor Code Policy. I have been pushing for this
for years. This is the right decision and it is the best for the kids, no
question. "Violation of team rules" is all that needs to be stated.
@Cougar PassionNever mind that BYU's national championship led
directly to the Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance. Never mind that the later snubbing
of #5 BYU led to the formalized rules requiring teams in such a position to be
included in the subsequently-formed BCS.------------Yes,
BYU helped create the BCS. It was Utah that helped to take it down.Prior to 2004, a mid-major team had to finish in the BCS top 6 for a BCS bowl.
Utah was the ONLY team to achieve that, afterwards rules were changed to be
more inclusive. BYU has NEVER finished #5 in BCS rankings. BYU helped build walls, which Utah helped to take down with the help of TCU
and Boise.This did not help bring down the BCS:* No
undefeated seasons in the BCS era* No BCS bowls* No BCS Bowl wins* No top 10 finishes (Utah 2, TCU 4)* Losing record against BCS teams* Losing record against top-mid majors (3-9 vs. Utah, 2-5 vs. TCU, and 1-3 vs.
Boise)* Losing record against PAC-12 teams in the BCS era (12-14)*
62% of BM’s total wins were against teams with a losing record
I agree with Holmoe 100%. These matters are between school administrators and
the athlete in question.
Just my two cents. I appreciate that the Y states that the student has violated
the honor code. This is what I believe has set BYU apart from other schools.
Disclosing more than that is not anyone elses business aside from God, the
student athlete, their church leader(s) and BYU. I think that stating its a
violation of team rules lessens the Honor Code Violation that has received
positive press over the years. Hadley hung himself going into a public location
where he could be viewed. As for Davies, nothing more needed to be said about
what led to his situation. Gossip led to his privacy breach. I think this is a
bad decision if you ask me, its what sets BYU apart from other school. Go UTES!!
RE: Thid Barker, We are supposed to confess our OWN sins, not other
people's sins. Therefore this is an excellent move?Open
confession. In Mt. 18:15, we read, "Moreover, if thy brother shall trespass
against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone. If he shall
hear thee, thou hast gained a brother." All responsibility toward men
can be fulfilled by letting one person know of our repentance if our trespass is
against one, and only one knows of it. In Gal. 2:12, we are told
that Peter sinned before all; Paul rebuked him before all (Gal. 2:14). Could
Peter's confession have been less than before all to be effective? When a sin is carried before the (team)church (Mt. 18:17), should not
the(team) church also be informed of the repentance?
81 Ute"Maybe the first topic of discussion for your new
'members', scratch that 'cougars only' forum would be a
serious discussion about how poor the 2014 schedule really is."Yeah, great idea. However, we would undoubtedly have to include Utah in the
forum because #1, they just can't leave us alone, and #2, your basketball
program wrote the book on the subject. So it would be a waste of time. Thanks
for loving BYU so much as to comment on our articles!!!!
Though I cheer for almost any team playing the Utes, I get tired of the sniping
by both sides. BYU fans should be above all that, just as the BYU Honor Code
expects student conduct to be above that of the students of other schools. If
these comments were "all in good fun," that would be different, but many
clearly are not.
@BYU9293Don't tell me, tell Mr. Holmoe and Coach Mendenhall.
Cougar Passion, great response, I love it. You are so right and hit the nail
right on the head.To 81Ute,I would love to see byu stop
playing Utah in all sports, I wanted that when I played in 92 and 93. Utah was
never a rival to us, they were nobody and we hated playing them because we
gained nothing. No matter how big we had beat them (in previous years), we were
supposed to and the margin was never large enough and if we lost, as we did,
then we were horrible. To us, our rivals were the teams in contention for the
conference crown and that was not Utah, period. I feel the same way now. I
wish we would never play them in anything, it is not good for byu.
@eastcoastcougI will gladly move on when there are no more athletic
contests between the schools. So, do your part and write a letter to Mr. Holmoe
and ask him to avoid games/meets/etc with the U. Then get all of your like
minded cougs to do the same.
@CougarSunDevilMaybe you should start a members only forum? This is a
newspapers comment section and you do not need to prove any loyalty to post
here. Maybe the first topic of discussion for your new
'members', scratch that 'cougars only' forum would be a
serious discussion about how poor the 2014 schedule really is.
People need to realize that the honor code at BYU is actually a higher standard
than that of the LDS church. I will not get kicked out of the church for
committing transgressions that are also against BYUs honor code. A student at
BYU signs his or her name and commits to living according to the honor code. If
they violate the honor code, they will face discipline, which may include
getting kicked out of school. There are no surprises. If a student, an athlete
or not, does not want to answer questions as to why they get kicked out of BYU,
don't violate the honor code that you committed to live by!
DonO. What does "holier than thou" mean? Can a student or athlete at the
U of U, Utah State or any other school be "holier than thou" or is that
reserved for people associated with BYU?
It's about time BYU started handling player discipline the way every other
school in the country does. "Violation of team rules" is sufficient
public comment. Bringing up the whole "honor code" thing leaves the
impression that the suspended player is some kind of moral leper. IMO, this is a
good first step in helping BYU shed its "holier than thou" attitude and
We are supposed to confess our OWN sins, not other people's sins. Therefore
this is an excellent move!
I find it hilarious that some get bothered by BYU talking about aspirations for
a national championship and want to disparage them because they haven't
formally won a BCS game. Never mind that BYU's national championship led
directly to the Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance. Never mind that the later
snubbing of #5 BYU led to the formalized rules requiring teams in such a
position to be included in the subsequently-formed BCS. Never mind that the
Cotton Bowl which BYU won was the same level of game that would be included in
the BCS now. These are all inconvenient truths for some who aren't
interested in thinking very much but are interested in wasting their time being
the first to comment on a rival's article. And, frankly, I
will happily take a school who, because of history and the unique ability based
on affiliation to occasionally compete with top schools for recruits, can
legitimately talk about trying for another national championship. Yes, things
have to fall into place for a special season, but that isn't even a
consideration for most other schools around the country, including the vast
majority who derive their identity from conference membership.
Best decision I've heard out of BYU on the honor code ever.Treating "honor code violations" as a violation of team rules is the
right way to go and let the coach decide what if any punishment should be given
for any rule violation. Indiscretions are private and should be
only between the student and his God. If the student broke the law, then yes, I
can see the honor code office and University spokespersons getting involved, but
not if it is a personal matter.
Non-Athlete students don't get their name drug through the media when they
make a mistake. Why should an athlete not be afforded the same right to
This is a step in the right direction. However, I think BYU should still make
"No Comment" even when the case is in the public record or the student
athlete has gone public. It is always best to have the student making the
comments and not BYU. Think about it, folks, if it were your son or daughter.
You'd still want to be in control of the news.I applaud Holmoe
overall for doing a good job with a tough situation. I'm glad we left the
MWC, disappointed we couldn't have gone to a better conference. BCS wins
could have helped us make a better case, so we shot ourselves in the foot by not
doing what Utah, Boise and TCU did. But independence is the next best thing and
I like that we are still trying to build a national brand by playing all over
the country against good programs. It's not easy to schedule seasons like
2013.And I continue to be amazed by the obsession of Ute fans who
say they have moved on but can't get over all things BYU. Please, Ute fans,
I have been a BYU fan all my life, but when it comes to spending exorbitant
amounts on new facilities and giving athletes special treatment, I am opposed to
such a move. I've been a university teacher in a power conference for a
number of years. On one occasion I caught a football player cheating on the
final exam--just before a bowl game. When I reported it, I was told that it was
my word against his and unless he admitted to cheating, nothing could be done
about it. While I don't think that will happen at BYU, I do think that it
is very likely that BYU could possibly lose sight of some of its main missions
if it feels it has to create facilities that will match those in "power
conferences" so that student athletes can live an opulent, pampered
"In the future, if a student-athlete violates the honor code and is unable
to compete, coaches will likely refer to the situation as a “violation of
team rules” and leave it at that, Holmoe said."Perfect -
it's about time.
It's nobody's business.This should have happened years
ago. I applaud BYU for realizing that the moral shortcomings of individuals
are not the business of anybody but the person trying to repent and church
leaders, if even necessary.The next step is to not kick people out
of school, or off teams, who initiate the repentance process and who are wanting
to to make amends. That one may take time.
Lastly, if we can somehow limit the podium time given to BYU haters and Ute
trolls, so we don't have to hear their constant barrage of unrelated and
constant bickering, then we could all enjoy diologue time. Until that time, I
give you Riley m . Back talk, et al.
Is being honest part of the honor code? If so Holmoe has violated this.
Lying and misguiding cougarnation into going independent and then producing the
worst schedule in years (if not ever).2014 BYU football schedule is
I think when there has been an HC violation, the school always has had good
intentions to keep things confidential, but with today's media it seems
that some reporter, or some blogger somehow always finds a "friend" or
someone inside who knows the details, and then the media is flooded with the
personal, tabloid info. Back when Brandon showed up sitting on the bench with a
shirt and tie during the tournament, seriously, how was the school not going to
comment on that? The public demanded an explanation and the press didn't
quit digging until they found and published one. It is noble to try to maintain
confidentiality though . . .
Slowly but surely. Now lets outlaw any discussion of playing for a
National Championship in football until they actually win a BCS bowl game.Both will be great immprovements.