Lonestar,Who ya gonna trust? Helms or ESPN/NCAA/State of Utah?
@ CordonBleu"The truth is the 1944 field was soooo weak that
NOBODY can legitimately claim a national championship"Probably
just as weak as the 1984 Holiday Bowl match up that nobody can legitimately
claim was a National Championship."The Utes won a watered-down
NCAA tournament after getting bounced from the NIT in the first round and only
beating one college team during the entire regular season - a 4-1 record versus
college teams doesn't merit a national championship in anyone's
book"The Cougs won the most watered-down "national
championship game" in history of college football when they beat a 6-6
Michigan team (barely bowl eligible). Makes them undeserving of that title!Even if Utah lost the first round of the NIT, they went on to win the
NCAA National Championship in 1944 and then they beat the NIT champion at
Madison Square Garden after claiming their title.That fact is that
both the NCAA and ESPN say Utah won the National Championship in basketball in
1944. If you want proof, go to ESPN's website and go to Utah
basetball's page and go to their tournament history. At the bottom of the
page it says "Defeated Dartmouth in National Championship Game, 42-40"
UUThe Helms Athletic Foundation- Founded in 1936 by Bill
Schroeder and Paul Helms- Put together a panel of experts to select
National Champion teams in a number of college sports including football and
basketball- The panel met annually to vote on a National Champion from
1936 until 1982 (47 years)- Operated a Hall of Fame for both college
sports- When the Helms Foundation dissolved in 1982, its historical
holdings were absorbed into the collection of the Amateur Athletic Foundation,
renamed the LA84 Foundation in 2007- The LA84 Foundation still exists
today and has invested more than $197 million in Southern California by awarding
grants to youth sports organizations, initiating sports and coaching education
programs, and operating the world's premier sports library
Clark W. GriswoldThe truth is the 1944 field was soooo weak that
NOBODY can legitimately claim a national championship.The Utes won a
watered-down NCAA tournament after getting bounced from the NIT in the first
round and only beating one college team during the entire regular season - a 4-1
record versus college teams doesn't merit a national championship in
Sports Fan,Who do you trust? Helms or ESPN, NCAA and the U of U /
State of Utah?Where is this helms foundation today? Are they
ghosts? They must have had a phenomenal impact on the college
sports world if they disappeared as quickly as they arrived. How soon after
1947 did they become insolvent?
jarka-rus--"the Pac is weak UCla loses to a very bad Oregon
team. Zona isn't a top ten team either. The Pac will be majorly exposed
come tournament time. Mark that down"I realize you merely
glanced at the final score and know nothing regarding what in fact occurred w/in
the game itself, as well as what national experts readily state in regard to the
sort of threat Oregon poses, so I'll fill-in the blanks for you--UCLA suspended their top 2 players immediately before this game was played,
yet they still managed to take Oregon to double-OT.Furthermore,
Oregon is widely considered to be a real threat to any team they play against,
in spite of their losses w/in conference play. They possess enough talent to be
capable of beating any opponent they face. Look no further than the fact that 4
of their Ls were by merely 2 points and a 5th L was by 4 points.UO
went undefeated in OOC and, in viewing byu fan's current go-to reference of
RPI ranking as the end all, we see UO at #32 w/0 bad losses.
@ SportsFanToo bad Army's sports department doesn't
recognize their 1944 Helm's Foundation #1 ranking or whatever. They
don't even recognize they won a National Championship in basketball that
year. But the NCAA and ESPN both recognize that Utah won the
National Championship in 1944. It's too bad that some BYU fans will go at
great lengths to try and discredit it. It you want proof, look at
the rafters in the Huntsman Center. There you will see our National Championship
banner and our Final Four banners which is something BYU will never see in the
the Pac is weak UCla loses to a very bad Oregon team. Zona isn't a top ten
team either. The Pac will be majorly exposed come tournament time. Mark that
As Uteanymous Posted"The Helms Athletic Foundation was an
athletic foundation based in Los Angeles, founded in 1936 by Bill Schroeder and
Paul Helms. It put together a panel of experts to select National Champion teams
and make All-America team selections in a number of college sports including
football and basketball.From 1939, when the NCAA Tournament started,
the Helms and NCAA Division I champions were the same, except for 1939, 1940,
1944, and 1954 when Oregon, Indiana, Utah, and La Salle respectively won the
tournament.In 1944, the Helms Foundation was the only credible,
neutral organization not associate with the NCAA or NIT in the business of
recognizing national champions in basketball."To summarize:The NCAA champion was NOT the national champion in 1944, but WAS the
national champion in 1947.
Sports Fan,No he didn't.Why don't you
summarize Truth Machine's response to the 1947 NIT for all of us.Hint: You won't be able to because while TM says, "Neither '44
nor '47 were national championships", he does not provide any evidence
around the '47 NIT.
U 90Truth Machine already answered your question.
Rockwell, killarney and Truth,I will take your non-response to the
1947 NIT question as agreement that Utah did indeed win a National Championship.
Rockwell, and ARMY doesn't even list their Helms #1 ranking in their
official records, nor any national title, evidence that the only people who
consider that a better achievement than a Tournament title are those that want
to discredit the winners of the title.
Clark W. GriswoldDid Utah end up beating the NIT Champion after
winning the NCAA National Championship in 1944? Not in a game that
counted - Utah doesn't even list the game in their final season record.
I've said it from the beginning that ASU is a surprise this year in
basketball. AS to Utah's Two BCS Bowl wins, If ASU had to beat Wyoming,
UNLV, New Mexico, et al. in order to get to a BSC game, I suppose ASU would have
won several. When Utah makes it to the Rose Bowl going through the PAC-12, then
you can talk all you want. ASU did it once which is more than your weak MWC
schedule 2004 and 2008 years can say. With that, good bye! LOL at
talking about the 1940's.
CSD's spins would have been much different had his sun devils won. Now
he's trying to downplay things..."We know we're not a basketball
school...well at least we have football." Yeah, we do, too. Two BCS bowl
wins, versus zero for your sun devils. The fact of the matter is, the Utes
spanked your sun devils, and it hurts. Sour grapes are still sour grapes.
CSD, You're so right the world revolves around Arizona. If
you're not from Arizona you amount to nothing and have no life. How's
that philosophy working for you CSD? Apparently pretty well considering you
spend all day commenting on Utah stories. Crack me up.
This is outstanding, we have a bunch of BYU fans (Rockwell, Killarney and Truth
to name a few) on a Utah thread trying to disprove Utah's NC (obsessed much
boys?). Yet none of you have an answer for the 1947 NIT. If the NIT was the
more prestigious tournament (per Rockwell), then Utah won the NC in 1947 per
your criteria. Start the spin cycle Y fans.
@ RockwellYou forgot one!Did Utah end up beating the NIT
Champion after winning the NCAA National Championship in 1944? YES!Utah not only won the NCAA National Championship in 1944, they
also beat St. John's (NIT Champion) shortly after winning the NCAA
Tournament. The National Championship banner resides in the rafters
in the Huntsman Center. Along with our Final Four appearances.
U 90Did Utah 1944 play a meaningless regular season basketball
"schedule" which was actually nothing more than a bunch of pickup
games?YES!Did Utah turn down an invitation to the NCAA
in order to play in the more prestigious NIT?YES!Did
Utah lose in the 1st round of the NIT?YES!So how does
winning the less prestigious tournament of the day qualify the Utes for a NC?The truth is Utah won the NCAA tournament against the weakest field ever
to play in the tournament and the 2nd best tournament of the day, nothing more.
Oh yeah, well my grandpa's dentures have been to more states than your
grandpa's dentures! Seriously guys, if you could only hear what you guys
are saying. Talking about the glory days of 1944. WOW. Watch out for
U90"CSD, I'm not sure what's more funny... that Utah
handed ASU their second worst beat down of the season, or the cut and paste
below from the espn webiste (sic)."Who cares? The only people
that need to justify the relevancy of their program reside north of Arizona. I
don't need to defend ASU's basketball program because we're not a
Basketball school. You want a basketball school? Go south of Phoenix. Everyone
in ASU knows it and we don't need to try and justify our bad years because
we get it. We're not a basketball power. Neither is Utah. But then, we at
least have football. Oh, and I believe I already said congrats on the win
against ASU. Of course, you must have overlooked that. But only a Utah fan would
gloat over a win like that because Utah truly has very little to brag about.
killarney, I suggest you read the March 1963 Sports Illustrated article
"Reprieve for Redskins." It details the actual events surrounding
postseason play in that day and age, and why Utah initially picked the NIT over
the NCAA (had nothing to do with "prestige"), and the teams that they
played, including a stacked Dartmouth team in the title game. Yours is biased
@Truth "Utah claims a 22-4 record in 1944. Utah's verifiable record
in official games versus actual college teams was 4-1"Did Utah
go to the NCAA tournament in 1944 and win it? Answer: Yes. You do
realize that you're asking people to believe Y fans over the NCAA, the U of
U and ESPN. It boils down to the credibility of the source. I'll take my
chances with the NCAA, U of U and espn. Even if you were right
there's still the 1947 NIT which you have yet to explain. Isn't it Y
fans that keep telling us the NIT was the real NC back in the 40's? Utah
won that tourny in '47. Explain how that one is not an NC.
Truth MachineApparently, the only thing that "qualified" the
1944 Utes for an invitation to the NIT and/or NCAA was having a college
basketball team.They certainly didn't earn anything by beating
Colorado College and winning a bunch of pickup games.So Utah spurns
an invitation to the 2nd rate NCAA tournament, to accept an invitation to the
more prestigious NIT. Only after getting bounced from the NIT in the 1st round,
did the Utes accept a 2nd desperate invitation from the NCAA, winning three
games against teams composed mostly of freshmen, because all of the
upper-classmen were busy fighting WWII.Then they claim they
"won" the NC by playing a charity, exhibition game that the Utes
don't even count as an official game.btw, why weren't Fort
Warren, Salt Lake Air Base, or Dow Chemical invited to the NCAA, after all, they
beat the Utes head-to-head, which as we all know, proves they were better than
U 90Neither '44 nor '47 were national championships.Utah claims a 22-4 record in 1944.Utah's verifiable record in
official games versus actual college teams was 4-1.Utah's 1944
Basketball Schedule18th Replacement Wing 48-24A.S.T.P. Company
D 51-21A.S.T.P. Company B 76-24A.S.T.P. ERC 71-17@Hill Field
Fliers 61-26@Weber 63-25@Weber Navy 60-25@Kearns 2nd Air Force
45-35Fort Douglas 41-26@Wendover Bomber Quintet 64-28Idaho
State 54-43Ecker Studio 46-44@Colorado College 48-34@Fort
Logan 55-38@Fort Warren 59-61Kearns 57-37Salt Lake Air Base
39-54Bushnell Hospital 78-31@Idaho State 52-40Dow Chemical
36-46Salt Lake Air Base 62-38NIT:Kentucky 38-46NCAA :Missouri 45-35Iowa State 40-31Dartmouth 42-40 (OT)There's not a shred of evidence that any of the opposing players in
Utah's pickup games even played high school ball, let alone college ball,
including the three teams - Fort Warren, Salt Lake Air Base, and Dow Chemical -
that beat Utah.Idaho State's official website claims the
Bengals didn't play any games in 1943-44.
Snack PAC, dude I've seen some hair splitting efforts in my time but you
are swerving into Clintonesque spin territory.B C, whether
Utah's 1944 year is audacity or not can be debated endlessly, frankly I
don't care...the banner is in the rafters and the NCAA recognizes the
championship. Go back and listen to Billy Packer talk about Utah during their
final four run in 98. He talked about Arnie Ferrin and the Utes being
"national champions" in 1944. I don't judge the program solely on
that year. Utah has a body of work over time that gives them a #19 ranking by
Sagarin. Audacious is BYU being voted national champions in 1984
with the worst SOS in the history of CFB cnamp, not beating a single ranked team
that year, and defeating a .500 team to be declared national champs. But guess
what...it is in the history books as a NC and I accept it. Why don't you
all let 1944 go already? Let history remain history.
CSD, I'm not sure what's more funny... that Utah handed ASU their
second worst beat down of the season, or the cut and paste below from the espn
webiste.UTAH4 Final Fours35-30 Tournament Record1
Championship Seasons27 Tournament AppearancesASU0 Final
Fours13-14 Tournament Record0 Championship SeasonsNone13
Oh this is hilarious reading about posts talking about events that happened
within 10 years of the end of World War II and trying to explain how good a
program is based on what happened before most people on this board were born.
This is why no one outside the state of Utah cares about BYU or
Utah. When a tree falls in Utah, no one outside the Zion Curtin hears it. Trust
BC, so your saying ESPN and the NCAA are not credible sources? Uteanymous, lets assume that the whole universe agrees with you that the Helms
Foundation is more credible than ESPN and the NCAA... which is a big stretch.
Utah still won the 1947 NIT and therefore has a national championship. BYU won the 1951 NIT but it was not considered an NC because in 1950
there was a point shaving in the NIT that cemented it's place as the #2
tournament. You can google that... there's plenty of support.Net/net, you either award Utah a national championship in 1944 or 1947, you
BC, I'd love to see you have the audacity to tell Arnie Ferrin to his face
that he's not a "real" national champion.
UUThe Helms Athletic Foundation was an athletic foundation based in
Los Angeles, founded in 1936 by Bill Schroeder and Paul Helms. It put together a
panel of experts to select National Champion teams and make All-America team
selections in a number of college sports including football and basketball.From 1939, when the NCAA Tournament started, the Helms and NCAA Division
I champions were the same, except for 1939, 1940, 1944, and 1954 when Oregon,
Indiana, Utah, and La Salle respectively won the tournament.In 1944,
the Helms Foundation was the only credible, neutral organization not associate
with the NCAA or NIT in the business of recognizing national champions in
UUCite a credible source of the day that named Utah the 1944
national champs.ESPN didn't even exist in 1944 and the NCAA
obviously had a vested interest in their own tournament.Name one
other team in the history of college basketball that only beat one college team
during the entire regular season of basketball, but had the audacity to claim
they were national champions.
@ killarney "Since the 60's, the NCAA tournament winner has been
recognized as the defacto national champion; that wasn't the case in
1944."Cite a credible source to support that killarney
Elmer FuddSince the 60's, the NCAA tournament winner has been
recognized as the defacto national champion; that wasn't the case in
1944.The fact remains, the Utes only beat a couple of college teams
during the 1943-44 regular season, then won the most watered down NCAA
tournament in history, against teams made up mostly of freshmen and sophomores,
in the 2nd rate tournament of the day.
Lonestar & Snack,So what you're saying is that we should
all take your word over ESPN and the NCAA?
@ PACute"The official NCAA website has a webpage with the header
NCAA - Men's Basketball - Championship History - which lists Utah as the 1944 champion.It doesn't anything
about the Utes being the national champions"So your saying
Louisville did NOT win the National Championship last year and Kentucky did NOT
win it the year before that? All those NCAA tournaments UCLA won in the
60's and 70's are NOT National Champions because it doesn't say
"National Champions" on their website. I looked at the whole list of
champions on the NCAA website and it didn't say anything about National
Champions for any of the NCAA tournament champions. So which is it? Either all
the NCAA tournament champions are National Champions or they're not. Take
DraperUteFanThe official NCAA website has a webpage with the header
NCAA - Men's Basketball - Championship History - which lists Utah as the 1944 champion.It doesn't anything
about the Utes being the national champions.
Nice win, but it would be nice to have a winning record in PAC 12 play in either
football or basketball one of these years...
Lonestar, split hairs all you want and debate the efficacy of the 1944
championship, but the official NCAA website lists Utah as the 1944 champ. BYU
has a national championship in football in 1984 and though people debate it ad
infinitum, it is in the record books and will always be, so that is enough for
me. On the one hand you and your cohorts keep telling us to only
pay attention to the Dave Rose era, yet keep hearkening back to the 1944 season.
Furthermore, nobody is arguing that Utah hasn't been good the last decade.
They began a spiral during Giacoletti and it got worse under Boylen. Bad hires
led to bad results. Utah is improving and should eventually return to NCAA
tournament bids in the near future.As for Rose's record and
results against Utah, congratulations. He is a very good coach and has had some
solid results. He is the classiest coach BYU has had in my lifetime. He has had
very good success overall, but the trend since joining the WCC is moving away
from winning conference championships.
ImaUteFanCompared to Utah's 1943-44 regular season basketball
schedule, BYU's 1984 football team played an NFL caliber schedule.btw, you don't win a national championship by winning the 2nd rate
tournament of the day, after losing in the opening round in the premier
DraperUteFanThanks for the ancient history lesson.The
NCAA wasn't in charge of determining the national champion in 1943-44; in
fact, the NCAA tournament was the 2nd rate tournament of the day, the baby
brother to the NIT.It's questionable whether Utah played more
than one college basketball team during the entire 1943-44 regular season.Utah claims they beat Idaho State twice, yet Idaho State's
year-by-year results list 1943-44 -No Games--World War II.The
only other college team Utah played during the 1943-44 regular season was
Colorado College.As far as recent history during the Dave Rose
era:BYU 229-76(75%), 9 20+ win seasons, 6 going on 7 NCAAs, 2 NITs,
4-6 in the NCAA, 1 Sweet 16, 4 conference championships, 12-3 versus Utah,
including 7 of the last 8Utah 133-146(48%), 1 20+ win season, 6
losing seasons, 1 NCAA, 0-1 in the NCAA, 1 conference championshipIt's hilarious when Utah fans mock BYU for early exits from the NCAA
since the Utes haven't won a single NCAA tournament game in almost a
So what I'm getting from this discussion is that BYU fans are trying to
prove that Utah's 1944 national basketball championship is as fake as their
own national football championship in '84. Whatever makes you feel better,
I guess.The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.
The irony of BYU fans trying to discredit Utah's basketball tradition is
comical. People can argue the national championship status ad nauseum, but the
banner is in the Huntsman Center and Utah is recognized as the official champ in
1944 by the NCAA governing body. Since BYU fans love to trot out
their RPI, SOS, and every other stat, the body of work over time is quite
telling:Sagarin All Time NCAA Basketball RankingsUtah #19BYU #41Sweet 16 AppearancesUtah 15BYU 7Elite 8 AppearancesUtah 6BYU 3Final 4 AppearancesUtah 4BYU 0My personal favorite...number of first round NCAA
tourney exitsBYU 14 Utah 6BYU will likely extend their
glorious history of first round exit once again this year.
Uteology"Did BYU play in the tournament in 1944?"BYU, along with the vast majority of other schools, suspended their basketball
program in December 1943.That's why the only college teams Utah
played during the entire 1943-44 regular season were Idaho State and Colorado
College because there were, quite literally, absolutely no other colleges within
the entire Intermountain region that were still playing basketball.The few remaining teams nationwide who were still playing basketball were
composed almost entirely of freshmen and a few sophomores because the vast
majority of upper classmen were busy either fighting or preparing to fight a
world war.------------Utah did win the 1947 NIT and BYU
won the 1951 NIT; unfortunately, neither was a national championship.
talkinsportsGilbert, AZBleed CrimsonSorry to burst
your crimson bubble, but the winner of the NCAA tournament was not the defacto
national champion in 1944.A team that only beat Idaho St (twice) and
Colorado College during the entire 1944 season wouldn't have even merited
an invite to a post season tournament if the NIT and NCAA hasn't been so
desperate just to get anybody to play in their tournaments.-----------Did BYU play in the tournament in 1944? I guess they
weren't "desperate to get anybody to play in their tournaments"
after all.We won the NCAA championship in 1944. Three years
later, we won the NIT championship in 1947.
@ LonestarRunnerUtah won the NIT in 1947, so either way Utah won a
Bleed CrimsonSorry to burst your crimson bubble, but the winner of
the NCAA tournament was not the defacto national champion in 1944.A
team that only beat Idaho St (twice) and Colorado College during the entire 1944
season wouldn't have even merited an invite to a post season tournament if
the NIT and NCAA hasn't been so desperate just to get anybody to play in
Truth Machine, ARMY's own sports information department doesn't even
consider their Helms #1 ranking a "national championship," nobody
outside of Utah County does, either. ARMY went 15-0 during the 1943-44 season,
but did not play in any postseason tournament. Top to bottom, the NIT may have
been the stronger tournament at the time, but Dartmouth was widely viewed as the
best team in the country, essentially having a hand-picked all-star roster of
players that weren't even really students, but training for military
service and permitted to participate in athletics. Utah may not have been the
best team in the land, but quite often a team that is not the best team happens
to win it all, and they did. Teams like these, like 1986 NC State, are part of
what makes college sports so great. In the annals of history, Utah is and will
always be considered National Champions, no matter how you and other Provo
faithful deny it.
News For UBYU was selected CONSENSUS National Champions by every
major selecting organization in 1984 after finishing the season on a 24-game
winning streak with FIVE Top 12 finishes and back-to-back Top 7 finishes in six
years. BYU had more Top 12, 11+ win seasons in those 6 years alone, than the
Utes have had in their entire history.The NCAA was the baby sister
of the NIT in 1944. NO major organization named Utah national champion. Army
finished the season 15-0 and was selected national champion by the Helms
Athletic Foundation. The game versus St. John's was an exhibition fund
raiser and didn't even count as a real game; unlike the vast majority of
Utah's 1944 pickup games against the likes of Kearns and Ecker Studio.
Bleed Crimson,this is a case where the Utes can have their cake and
eat it to, cause in 1947, they were NIT champions.
@ Broken Truth MachineESPN would disagree with you. Check out their
webpage and go to Utah basketball's page. Go to Utah's NCAA tournament
history and go to the bottom. It says "Defeated Dartmouth in National
Championship, 42-40".Not only did Utah win the NCAA National
Championship, they also went on to beat St. John's (NIT champion) shortly
after in Madison Square Garden. Army was selected by s foundation, but they
never played in the NCAA or the NIT tournament.
Nice win. Defense needs to continue to be a constant because the offense has
been hot and cold.Would be great to get CO at home and then split
the Bay Area road trip.A conference tournament run (like last year)
is within reach because so many of the PAC-12 teams play poorly away from
home...Utah included...but solid defense is a good foundation and will likely
keep the Utes in all games and give them a chance if they can get their offense
@ Uteanymous"Despite Utah's win in the most watered down
NCAA tournament in history in a season in which the Utes didn't even play
in a conference and only beat TWO college teams during the entire regular
season" Speaking of "watered down" post season. BYU
played in the most watered down bowl game to claim their National Championship.
Seriously, the 1984 Holiday Bowl had BYU playing a 6-6 Michigan team. The cougs
didn't even play the #1 or #2 team for the title. It was because of that
fiasco, the BCS was created. BYU played such a weak schedule and had some lucky
breaks so they could get crowned. So the question is what is the difference
between BYU and Utah's national championships? "the Utes
have NEVER won a national championship in basketball" Yeah they
did! According to ESPN dot com, (BYU's sugar daddy). On their website, if
you go to Utah basketball's page. You'll see on the right hand side
under "NCAA Tournament History", "Championship Seasons" and 1944
is recognized. If you want more proof. Click on the link "Tournament
History" and scroll down to the bottom. It will say "Defeated Dartmouth
in National Championship, 42-40".
@Lonestar Like the runs into the sweet 16 in the MWC. Are those not
good enough? Bogut got them to the sweet 16. Did King Jimmer do any better than
ImaUteFanNope, the Utes were champions of the NCAA tournament, which
was the 2nd rate tournament of the day.As proof...Utah
turned down the NCAA to accept an invitation to the NIT. It wasn't until
after the Utes lost in the 1st round of the NIT, that they finally accepted a
2nd invitation to the NCAA, as a replacement for a team that was involved in a
bus crash and couldn't make it to the tournament.Army was named
the 1944 National Champion by the only national championship selecting
organization of the day.
Ken - I made almost the exact same comment as you regarding ranked teams in the
WCC except my comment was denied. Go figure.Uteanymous - not sure
where you are getting your information but Utah did in fact win the NCAA
National Championship in 1944 by beating Dartmouth 42 - 40. Might want to take
a peak at Wikipedia which lists all of the champions from 1939 - 2013.
You'll find the Utes listed there.
Uteology"Utah's goal, to compete in the tournament."LOL at your deluded spin.When was the last time the Utes
were competitive in the tournament?Utah hasn't won a single
game in almost a decade and even #1-draft pick Bogut couldn't get the Utes
past the 2nd round.The truth is Utah is a washed up has been that
hasn't made any serious noise in the tournament since they were in the WAC.
Uteology"BYU's goal, make the tournament.Utah's goal, to compete in the tournament."LOL!Don't kid yourself. Utah's goal was simply to finish with a winning
record. The Utes forfeited any chance of even making the tournament before the
season even began by scheduling the 350th WORST non-conference schedule in the
News For UDespite Utah's win in the most watered down NCAA
tournament in history in a season in which the Utes didn't even play in a
conference and only beat TWO college teams during the entire regular season, the
Utes have NEVER won a national championship in basketball. Army won
the championship in 1944.
jarka-rus,How come there are zero ranked teams from the WCC we keep
hearing about? LOL indeed
jazzer"If BYU made the dance they would be gone first round,
just like previous years. Truth is, they just don't have what it
takes."BYU 4-6 in the NCAA tournament during the Dave Rose
era.Utah 0-1 in the NCAA tournament during the same time period.If BYU, with FOUR wins in SIX tournaments, just doesn't have "what it
takes", what does that say about Utah, with ZERO wins in only ONE
tournament?Fans who live in crimson-colored bubbles on the hill
should avoid throwing darts at other programs.
News For UIt's funny how Utah fans constantly malign BYU's
football as "ancient history", yet have no problem touting Utah's
basketball history all the way back to 1944.UUSpin all
you want about rankings, but, bottom line:Most experts have BYU
either in the tournament or on the bubble.Nobody even mentions
Utah.Utah is paying the price for playing such a pathetically weak
non-conference schedule. It is what it is.
BYU's goal, make the tournament.Utah's goal, to compete in
the tournament.I have no problem with BYU fans being giddy about
being a bubble team from 2-3 team conference, after being in the NIT last year.
Improvement? Sure I guess!Success is measured by tournament wins
not tournament bids. Utah has a history to prove it, BYU does not. Utah is on
its way back, there's no question about that.
How come there is only 1 ranked team from this big bad boy conference we keep
hearing about?? Ucla the latest to drop out of the rankings. LOL
I'm a Mormon who AGREES with ChrisB on the Sunday issue. I wish our fans
would show up as well. I went to church Sunday morning and the ball game Sunday
night. What is in your heart is what matters, not the specific things you do or
don't do on Sundays. My name is Ken. I'm a lifelong Ute. I go the
games even on Sundays. And I'm a Mormon(hope you all caught the not so
subtle node to the Mormon videos there)
so who has ASU beaten that gives them this solid, juggernaut team status?
because they play in the mighty Pac, LOL. they haven't beaten anybody of
note. Zona 2OT whoopee, they're overrated. Lost to Miami and they are one
of the worst teams in the nation.
RockwellI didn't say one word about the Sunday game and
attendance, merely that I like the Sunday games. Trolling a Utah thread hoping
to pick an arguement? Par for the course. I'm sure the $22 million per year
TV contract helps ease the slight attendance decrease.
@AZ reader"I am amused at how quickly these comments devolve into a
BYU vs Utah screed. But I suppose that's the way it is in the Beehive
State."That is hilarious coming from a person from Tucson aka northern
And yet the only 2 mentions of BYU by the time you commented were by a known Ute
fan and yourself. Not a single one from a BYU fan. There was only one comment by
a known BYU fan by that time, and he basically just congratulated the Utes on
their win. So why the BYU paranoia? Are you just trying to stir the pot? Seems
to be a juvenile attitude and action.=========Uhh
congratulating us for the win? Thats a reach... It also had several likes (aka
more byu fans). Regardless, look at the article after my comment. Several BYU
fans. Go compare an article from a ho-hum Utah win to an article from a byu win,
and you will see what I am talking about. The contrast is staggering.. Go check
out the Arizona article (taking a top 5 team to OT didnt stop several BYU fans
from coming and talking trash) and go look at how many comments in the Gonzaga
article, by BYU fans, mention Utah.
If BYU made the dance they would be gone first round, just like previous years.
Truth is, they just don't have what it takes.
I think Coach K is a throw back to the classy coaches of yesteryear--Gardner and
Primm to mention a couple of them. Too bad the fans aren't throw
backs--rabid but classy.
Wow to the fan calling out other fans for not going to a game on sunday.I
wonder if he knows that even his own teams fans don't like him.A game
is a game.
I am amused at how quickly these comments devolve into a BYU vs Utah screed.
But I suppose that's the way it is in the Beehive State.
To all basketball fans in Utah (Not just Utah fans)Delon Wright is
special! You really need to see him in person. Last night he lead all players in
assists, steals, rebounds, scoring, and tied Arizona State's 7'1"
in blocked shots. He led in scoring by taking 7 shots (and making them all) and
8 for 10 free throws! That folks is special!
Apparently somebody was offended by my comment and had it removed. I apologize
profusely for defending fans with religious practices that they choose to
We are good and will make some noise in the CBI.Go Utes!
Rockwell,What's your definition of cherry picking? Putting a
premium on SOS in basketball only but not football? Looking at RPI only and
never BPI or Sagarin? Ignoring head to head results? Or ignoring the fact that
Utah has a better record than BYU in the WCC (1.000 vs .687) and the PAC 12
(.467 vs .333).According to Sagarin Utah is #88 while BYU is #49.
But keep in mind Utah has 3 strong teams left on the schedule while BYU has #121
San Diego + another cupcake to kick off the WCC tournament. By the end of the
year don't be surprised if both teams SOS is in the 60's.According to Sagarin:Utah: 1-3 vs. top 25, 3-6 vs. top 100BYU: 0-2
vs. top 25, 3-6 vs. top 100BYU's worst loss of the season was
at the hands of the Utes, yet most BYU fans want to write that off as an
anomaly. I can guarantee you that had BYU won that game Y fans would be singing
the praises of head-to-head results.
@ No playoff for U"Portland's last win in the NCAA - 2008,
70-69 versus ConnecticutUtah's last win in the NCAA - almost a
decade ago"BYU's 2010 basketball team is arguably one of
their best teams in school history. Unfortunately the Sweet 16 is as far as they
could go. The last time BYU made it that far in the NCAA tournament was Dannny
Ainge's Elite 8 team 30 years before. You can take jabs at
Utah's NCAA drought all you want, but the fact remains Utah has been more
successful in the NCAA tournament than BYU. 1 National
Championship1 National Runner-up4 Final FoursBYU has not
advanced beyond the elite 8.
Utah fans are beginning to understand what most BYU fans understood before the
season began, that playing the 350th worst OOC schedule would kill Utah's
chances for an at-large berth in the NCAA.BYU challenged themselves
during the first two months of the season with one of the toughest schedules in
the country.Utah played a powder-puff schedule and pinned their
entire pre-conference success on pulling off one upset win over their
arch-rivals at home.
christy"How about you tell us the record of each team vs teams
with RPI below 100?"Rockwell already summarized the most
pertinent overall results of the season.#35 BYU is close to locking
down an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament.#89 Utah isn't even in
CBWithout the fans "who will only support the team on certain
days of the week," Utah would lose half of its fanbase.Nice
going insulting half your fellow Utah fans, though.
UUNice cherry-picking spin, but the overall records speak for
themselves:#35 BYU(20-10) #21 SOS, 7-6 versus RPI Top 100#89
Utah(18-9) #140 SOS, 5-8 versus RPI Top 100BYU is 6-9 in
road/neutral gamesUtah is 1-7 in road/neutral gamesBYU is
currently listed in the Last Four Byes in ESPN's BracketologyUtah
isn't even mentioned
killarney,How about you tell us the record of each team vs teams
with RPI below 100?LOL!
Big time beatdown over a #32 RPI team. To all the fans who came to
support our team - thank you. To the "fans" who will only support the
team on certain days of the week, no thanks to you. We should have had twice
the number of fans show up yesterday.Go UTES!
Spokane Ute"I love the Sunday games, the only game on
TV."Wednesday night's attendance - 14,266Sunday
night's attendance - 10,401 (almost 4,000 less)Regardless of
how you spin it, playing Sunday games at the HC has a significant negative
impact on attendance.
Can't Say ItPortland's last win in the NCAA - 2008, 70-69
versus ConnecticutUtah's last win in the NCAA - almost a decade
agoThe team you've never heard of has done better in the Big
Dance lately than the Utes.
@Lambent "What's actually funny (in a strange way) is the paranoia
exhibited by some Ute fans concerning BYU"Says the BYU fan
trolling Utah articles. Classic
@ I Still Can't Say It:Only a grade school basketball fan
wouldn't know who Gonzaga is. Why would you or anyone else demonstrate
their ignorance of college basketball by saying you'd never heard of
Gonzaga, a team who has spent most of this season in the national rankings? That
was a silly, self-deprecating way of trying to put BYU down. It didn't
work. @ ekute:From past comments, and even the one he
made on this post, I'm fairly certain Joe Schmoe is a Ute fan, which
actually (but unintentionally) puts your comment in a better perspective by
downplaying the significance of the pac12. As such, the lol you made is
actually on you and fellow Ute fans.
@ But seriously folks! "BYU was their only win with a sos over 200"Per Sagarin, BYU has twice as many losses to crappy teams than Utah: BYU172 Loyola Mary131 Pacific120 Pepperdine104
PortlandUtah169 Washington State99 WashingtonBYU best wins 27 Gonzaga, 29 Stanford, 31 TexasUtah best wins: 16 UCLA,
33 ASU, 42 BYU
"Utah dominated a team from a real BCS conference."The BCS
no longer exists, but even when it did exist, it never had anything to do with
basketball."BYU played some school I've never heard of
before."Utah is 1-1 all-time versus Portland; BYU is 8-1.It's hilarious that the Utah fans continue to spout off about SOS
whenBYU's #22 SOS dwarfs Utah's #140 SOSBYU
has a winning record, 7-6(54%), versus RPI Top 100Utah has a losing
record, 5-8(38%), versus RPI Top 100
Impressive win. If every game was played in the HC then the Utes could make it
to the sweet 16.Unfortunately its that darned road thing that is
putting a dent in this team's credibility. But still ASU is a good program
(traditionally) so kudos.@JSanders. You can't seriously make
that kind of a swipe at BYU fans (being the first to post to Ute articles)
whilst attempting to be completely oblivious to the fact that it goes both ways.
There is a long list of at least 20 U backers who obsessively snipe at all
things BYU. Albeit at least 10 of those 20+ monikers is the same person.As I said it goes both ways, and I doubt you are ignorant of that fact.
Its just the rose colored glasses that slants your indignation to one side more
than the other. But that is human nature. I'll not fault you for it
@ Creeper51:You probably wouldn't "so gladly" be
willing to give that rematch with BYU if the game was played in Provo. Since the
Cougars have recently shown they can beat a nationally ranked team like Gonzaga
at the Marriott Center, it's very doubtful they would lose to the Utes
there. BYU also came within a whisker of beating another top-20 team there
earlier this season. The truth is, BYU seldom loses at home... especially
against unranked teams, which is what Utah currently is.However, the
Utes might very well win if another game (rematch) was played at the Huntsman
Center... where their only game against each other this season was played. To
their credit, Utah doesn't often lose there anymore.The simple
fact is, both teams are dominant and impressive at home. Either team would
probably beat the other if a rematch was played on their own home court, and
would probably lose if it wasn't.You should probably try harder
to keep things in perspective and in trying to stay real after a single, though
Down under, a couple facts to straighten out:1. The CIT doesn't
select teams from any of the major conferences, the CBI does.2. The
CBI doesn't seed its teams, they make bids for home court games.3. Utah most likely played their way out of the CBI already, and barring an
improbable conference tournament championship, will play in the NIT, probably
hosting a game or two, having already submitted the paperwork.
Great win and I love Coach K's attitude about the Pac 12 tournament! If
you don't believe you can win it, why play?
motorbike"NCAA is pretty much out of the question unless they
get to at least the semifinals of the Pac 12 Tourney"Tale of the
TapeUtah's only chance of dancing in March is to win the PAC 12
tourney to get the PAC's auto bid. The Utes simply don't have a
stronger enough SOS or high enough RPI to be considered as an at-large team.#89 Utah(16-9) versus D1 teams, SOS #140, 5-8 versus RPI Top 100Likely finish for the Utes - beat Colorado at home, lose to Stanford and
California on the road to finish 19-11 overall, 8th in the PAC 12 at 8-10.
@ JSanders:What's actually funny (in a strange way) is the
paranoia exhibited by some Ute fans concerning BYU. Even though this was a good
Ute victory, you didn't mention one thing about the game. Instead, you make
some inappropriate comment about BYU fans running to comment on Ute articles.
And yet the only 2 mentions of BYU by the time you commented were by
a known Ute fan and yourself. Not a single one from a BYU fan. There was only
one comment by a known BYU fan by that time, and he basically just congratulated
the Utes on their win. So why the BYU paranoia? Are you just trying to stir the
pot? Seems to be a juvenile attitude and action.BTW:
Congratulations to the Utes on an impressive win.
Congrats to the Utes on a commanding and dominating win over a really good ASU
team!!! Good luck the rest of the way and into the PAC12 tourney!!!Go Cougs!!! Rise Up!!!
Utah dominated a team from a real BCS conference. BYU played some school
I've never heard of before.
@Joe Schmoe'We need that loss to not look so terrible. Thanks for the
help!" You're welcome! Now that you're not in our conference,
glad we can help! Sorry we can't help out with the losses to Loyola
Marymount, Pepperdine, Portland, or Pacific!@But seriously folks!"BYU was their only win with a sos over 200" Seriously? How about
UCLA? Yes, that UCLA!
At cougar sundevilNicely done and very classy post. ASU will be fine
as long as they the wheels don't come off from here on out.I
love the Sunday games, the only game on TV.
Watching on tv (after church) it looked like there were a lot of empty seats. By
contrast, Wednesday's game v. Arizona was almost a sell-out. Time for that
meeting with the commish to present the case for avoiding Sunday home games if
at all possible so Utah can stay no. 2 in the PAC-12 in attendance or even make
a run at no. 1 as they continue to improve. Any particular reason this game
couldn't have been played on Saturday?
ASU was no less interested than Gonzaga when they played byu...or byu when they
played Utah in football and basketball.
Impressive win by the Utes. It is too bad, if they had scheduled tougher in the
non conference they may have had a shot at an at-large bid, but with they way
they did it, no chance. I say it is too bad because they are a good team, at
least at home. No quality road/neutral wins at all. But I think they will get
an NIT bid and if they can get some games at home, can do well in the NIT.
@Utah rulesNice win for the utes but I have to say that ASU seemed
to be on a different planet and looked like a grade school team. It didn't
have as much to do with utah but they seemed to be uninterested and didn't
want to be there. None the less still a good win. ASU certainly hurt their
chances at the NCAA tonight.--------------ASU
didn't seem interested? What game were you watching? ASU had 13 TO, Utah
15 so it wasn't that ASU was playing sloppy. It was Utah's
defense that made them look like a grade school team. Utah had 5 blocks on
first 11 ASU shots over the first 3 minutes of the game. Which lead to a 14-4
lead, game over!ASU did not hurt their chances by losing at one of
the toughest places to play in the league, to a team that is so far 4-2 in the
second half of PAC-12 play. ASU is a virtual lock for the tournament, all they
have to do is hold home court this week. They're still a #9 seed per ESPN.
Joe Schmoe,Thanks to your team for helping the Utes back on Dec. 14th.
It's looking like your conference schedule has been no help at all.
You're 1rst and 2nd place teams are on the bubble. Your conference champion
might be the only qualifier for the tourney. lol.
congratulations utes and ute fans... That was a dominating win over a pretty
good team... In fact I was surprised... if only the team could play that well
on the road y'all ight have been dancing this year. While I am
impressed I really don't see the utes getting very close at all to a pac12
tournament championship despite what the coach says.
Good thing they were spotted 10 games at home in the preseason or there would be
no way to get 20 wins this year. BYU was their only win with a sos over 200.
Might make a difference in tournament seeding in the CIT.
Nice win for the utes but I have to say that ASU seemed to be on a different
planet and looked like a grade school team. It didn't have as much to do
with utah but they seemed to be uninterested and didn't want to be there.
None the less still a good win. ASU certainly hurt their chances at the NCAA
Great win.Go Utes!
Great win by the Utes! Post season play is still possible if they win out their
final games and make a strong showing in their conference tournament. I think
they're very capable of doing it. From a Cougar fan, Good luck the rest of
the way from here on out!
@jsandersI see one out of the first twelve comments from a BYU fan
on this article. That's extreme, or funny? You must not know Chris B. or
his many monikered incantations. BTW Utah's rival is actually
the next game, the Buffs from CO, not the Cougars from Provo. Ute fans are so
done with the mid-majory, wacky-indie, West Coast Church League
school...remember?Congratulations to the Utes on an impressive
jsanders - kinda like how utah fans run to the BYU articles (win or
Great win over a top 30 team!@JoeYou welcome but too bad
Gonzaga isn't helping you much by losing at San Diego.
Still funny how many byu fans run to the Utah articles (win or lose)....Even
funnier is how many comments in the first few pages of the Gonzaga article
mention Utah. Not too hard to psychoanalyze this rivalry.
Nice win by the Utes. I'd like to see them win 2 of their final 3 regular
season games to get to 20. I think Colorado at home is a decent possibility but
getting one on the road from either Cal or Stanford will be a tougher deal.NCAA is pretty much out of the question unless they get to at least the
semifinals of the Pac 12 Tourney, but with a few more wins I wouldn't be
shocked to see an NIT game played at the Huntsman Center. That's
improvement Utah fans should be proud of.
Huge win over a solid team. There we go Utes!
To all those BYU fans that want a rematch with Utah I would gladly have them
play again, because the outcome would still be the same. A Ute win.
Oh, baby! What a sweet win that was. Utah dominated from start to finish.And I think it is important to note that the team that barely escaped
Utah with a 4-point win in overtime absolutely crushed Colorado by 27 last
night.This Ute squad is a good team. They have absolutely been in
every game they have lost this year except UCLA on the road. Only home losses
have been by 2 and 4 points in overtime.Now let's get CU next
Saturday and pick up a road win to finish out the regular season.
Good. Every Utah win now puts BYU one step closer to the big dance. We need
that loss to not look so terrible. Thanks for the help!
Blow out city, I loved it!Go Utes!Finish Strong!
Sure leaves you wondering when my Sun Devils can knock off the number 2 (at the
time) team in the nation and then go out and loose the next two games to
Colorado and Utah. Congrats on the win. These two loses could take ASU out of
the NCAA tourney and into an NIT bid. Better get things done with Stanford
next.Good win Utah.
Outstanding game played by the Utes tonight and fun to watch the Bachynski
brothers battle it out. Dallin got the best of the match up this around.
LOL!Wright is an absolute beast!Congratulations Utah!!
Utah just dominated from the get go. I thought we would win but this was a big
blowout against a top 30 team. Great win!Go UTES!
Very nice dominating win. Let's get Colorado, then do some
damage on the road.Go Utes!!
Part of ASU's "ice cold shooting" has to do with the Utes blocking
a quarter of their shot attempts. Even though he doesn't have any points,
Dallin is really taking it to his big brother, and has helped set the tone for
the rest of the team. Love this intensity defensively, and fast, but smart play
offensively. Keep this up this half and into the Rocky Mountain Rematch next