I find most of these comments offensive to SOME people. Just saying. Maybe start
to NOT fight and actually provide helpful insight to the post...? Some people
have different stands. The word STANDARD means: principles of conduct informed
by notions of honor and decency. Some people have different opinions and
standards than you. "Defend your beliefs with courtesy and compassion but
defend them." Was anyone listening to conference and knows who said that
quote? Jeffery R Holland. We must defend our standards, but kindly. As for the
tattoo thing; people make mistakes, and to get help just tell your parents. Are
you regretting the tattoo? Why get one when you think you know how they would
react? Best wishes. Sorry I don't really know what to say.
Its always interesting how discussions like this always turn out in the
vilifying of those who stand for what's right and the doctrine that has
been revealed to us from Heaven. If so your being judgmental, unchristlike etc
etc. Yes the Lord is merciful and will judge with perfect justice, but he still
cannot look on sin with the least degree of allowance. Whether you think it
doesn't matter to disfigure our mortal bodies or not, the truth will still
stand to judge us one day.
crimendelsiglodiDid you wear a long sleeve shirt to your interview?
The Church's postion on a lot of things stems less from what GOD wants than
from public perception of the behavior. Multiple ear peircings, tattoos,
mustache's and Beards, missionary standards of dress have all been
discouraged and or defined by how the public perceives the activity. When I was
active in the church I had a mustache after my mission. I was told I could not
go out with the missionaries or the seventies on splits so long as I had it.
Mustache's were seen as a sign of rebellion. Tattoos and multiple ear
piercings have consequences in the workplace and the rest of society that many
young people don't think about before getting them, Ergo I think the church
discourages them. Personally I have no issues with tattoos, I have
wanted on for years, but I have yet to find something really meaningful enough
to get one. I have no issues with them if they have real meaning to the person
and are tasteful. I have no issues with my daughter getting one under the same
conditions. So the reaon behind getting a tattoo is just as important as the
tattoo itself IMHO.
@Utefan4Lyf,“everybody should remember one thing: Matthew 7: 1-3, True,In Mt 7:3-5, Jesus spoke against hypocritical judging, which often comes
from judging by one’s own opinions.(John 7:24) Judge not
according to the appearance[tattoos], but judge righteous judgment. or judge
according to the truth and ”*evidence.” i.e..The LORD
said “no” Tattoos or body piercing. (*Lev 19:28 NLT)RE:
Crimendelsiglo (Tattoos) are not offensive, except to those(The LORD) who take
offense. True, See above,”*evidence.”RE: Niners, they
feel like they can judge others. True,Not that which goes into the
mouth defiles a man; but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a
man.(Mt 15:11):John 2:1-11, Jesus turns water into wine =(oinos) not wine
into water. In Mt 11:19. He was accused of drinking wine, and Mt 9:17,implies
fermentation.Wine (gleukos)denotes “sweet” new wine.
Acts 2:13 where the accusation shows that it was intoxicant. Today Jesus would
be Judged not Temple worthy.
MachadoI don't even have tattoos! I think they are ugly. I
defend other peoples rights to have them if they want them and feel good about
them. It isn't your place to call them unworthy of entering the temple
because of them - that is between them and the bishop and god.
i forgot to mention i am a veil worker at the Provo Temple. the question abt
tattoos was never raised when i was interviewed; i innocently did not even think
of it myself to volunteer.
i'm 70; i have 6 tats: each forearm, each shoulder, left chest and across
my back. they were done many many yrs ago. active LDS with temple recommend.took me many years to make the decision to have them done. i don't
think i need to repent of them; i'm not ashamed of them. i would not add
more. they are not offensive, except to those who take offenseHF
will deal with me in His waythey are none of your business; they do
not affect you (or my parents.) we each will deal with our own issues and not
those of other people.stick to the subject: she asked, what is the
best way to handle the situation NOW that a vacation is coming upi've grown to appreciate Angela's advisethnx
Last post (DNews rules).I find it interesting how many use the
failings and weaknesses of others to rationalize your own behavior. Yes, you
will find people who eat too much meat or drink too much soda. And you can
certainly look around your own families, friends, neighbors, and church
associates and find far more egregious failings than those. But are those people
really the standard for your behavior? Is that all you aspire to be? I thought
Christ was supposed to be our exemplar.It is easy to take a
conglomerate of the weaknesses of others and, before you know it, you have
accepted all of them yourself and become weaker than any of them
individually. "Dad swears." "My brother lives on video
games." "The bishop is fat." "My buddy
smokes."If you accept all those as excuses for you own behavior,
you will soon find yourself to be a smoking, swearing, fat, video game king.If you must pattern yourself after others, take their strengths instead
of their weaknesses.Excusing your tattoo because someone else has
one and is still "temple worthy" is cowardice. Own your own choices.
DocHollidayreno, NVMachado - I don't
why people like getting their ears pierced... so what. Do I care if they do it?
I don't get why people like to golf, seriously I just don't get
it.I don't get why people like to buy expensive cars. seriously I
just don't get itI don't get why people drink soda and are out
of shape and obese but still claim they obey the word of wisdom, seriously, I
just don't get it.I don't get why people like to go to lagoon.
Seriously, I just don't get it.I don't get why people like to
worry about what other people do to their bodies. Seriously, I just don't
get it.--------------------------Best comment on this board!
When I was Mormon both of the bishops counselors were, to put it nicely,
"obese" which clearly shows disobeying the word of wisdom, and is
extremely unhealthy, yet somehow by picking and choosing which sins are worse,
they feel like they can judge others. Also I have temple attending family
members who eat meat nearly every night. No big deal though..
I can't believe how judgmental people can be. I am in the military and I
got a quote tattooed that truly expresses who I am and what I want to become.
Everytime I read that quote it motivates me during the rigorous training I have
to go through and it reminds me of who I am when am tired and want to quit.
There are so many reasons to get tattoos, some tattoos express what people feel
are just a part of who they are. Some of you just see a "rebellious
act" or a "temporary feeling" for some reason, when in reality, most
tattoos are never even seen (like mine). Tattoos have real meaning to a lot of
people that get them, and just because you don't have any clue what that
tattoo means to a person, doesn't mean its a "rebellious act".
LovelyDeseret:So, "only cheap cars have them." Interesting.
I have a bachelors degree, an MBA, am a devout Catholic and a devout family man.
I also have numerous tattoos. I read this article as a cry for help from a woman
who wanted to tell her parents about a choice she made, fearful of a reaction
like most I have read on this board today. How does anybody claim to be a
Christian and judge the way I have read? Especially about a little ink on a
person's body. Perhaps everybody should remember one thing: Matthew 7: 1-3.
RE: DocHolliday “It doesn't harm you or affect you in any
way?”, A couple of questions for the Tattooed”. ...Will
I cause a weaker brother to stumble because of my tattoo? Is a Tattoo glorifying
to God? The LORD=(Jehovah) commands “no” Tattoos or
body piercing. (Lev 19:28, NLT). Christians should honor Christ in
their hearts and bodies they don’t plaster graffiti on His sacred
temple. 1Cor 6: 19-20. .. give your bodies to God. Let them be a
living sacrifice, holy—the kind he can accept. When you think of what he
has done for Christians, is this too much to ask? Romans 12:1 LB. Christians need to remember they have been redeemed from Mortal and Spiritual
death, and belong to God.Laser removal is one option
Explain to your parents that tattoos are like bumper stickers. Only people with
cheap cars have them.
To 1.96 Standard Deviations:You make an important point, that
sustaining the Brethren as Prophets is a temple recommend question, and you
suggest that anyone who is not following each and every point of counsel from
the Brethren should not be worthy to hold a temple recommend.The
Brethren have consistently and unmistakenly counseled against incurring
excessive debt. President Hinckley was adamant in warning of the dangers of
getting into debt. So, by your logic, any member of the Church who (aware the
Prophet's warning) ran up a credit card debt should consider himself
unworthy of a temple recommend?
Machado - I don't why people like getting their ears pierced...
so what. Do I care if they do it? I don't get why people like to
golf, seriously I just don't get it.I don't get why people like
to buy expensive cars. seriously I just don't get itI don't get
why people drink soda and are out of shape and obese but still claim they obey
the word of wisdom, seriously, I just don't get it.I don't get
why people like to go to lagoon. Seriously, I just don't get it.I
don't get why people like to worry about what other people do to their
bodies. Seriously, I just don't get it.I could do this all day.
People have different reasons for what they like. If you don't like it,
don't do it. It doesn't harm you or affect you in any way.
BrahmaIf I read your last post correctly, "was" a member may
mean that you no longer are. If so, I'm sorry about that. You mentioned
counsel about tattoos, multiple piercings, R Rated movies couldn't be taken
seriously. I disagree. My understanding of prophets and their role is quite
different. You may remember the verse I mentioned in my first post about the
people of Ammonihah not receiving the words of Alma (a prophet). His words were
not received because their hearts were hardened. They were spiritually
desensitized to the point that they could not recognize or accept truth. There
is much in the world today that can cause this. As members of Christ's
church we have the privilege and blessing to have individuals who can see what
is coming before it hits us. If we follow their counsel we will be safe. If we
do not we are left unto ourselves. I wish you all the best.
Ian: You may be comfortable passing judgment on posted comments (I find that
ironic) and you may or may not have included my comments in your rebuke.
However, I'm not trying to pass judgment. I'm just trying to find our
what is the allure of a tattoo. Seriously, I just don't get it.Is pleasing our friends, or creating a certain "image," or even doing
just what we want to do really so important that we would put aside our most
precious relationships with our family and, if one is religious, with God? And,
if something as insignificant as a tattoo is that important, what other things
will we choose over family and God?
To those using Al Fox Carrington as an example of someone having tattoos and
also living the gospel should remember she had these tattoos before she joined
the church. For anybody else who has heard the prophetic counsel against
tattoos ought to consider they are willfully disregarding counsel given to us.
If the Lord can’t trust us on the small things, how can He trust us on
greater things? No, we shouldn't judge others, the person getting a tattoo
nor the parents or spouses who feel they have been betrayed. Yes, we have our
agency to choose and there is the gift of repentance, but we should also
remember at what cost this gift was given to us. A cautionary note, a tattoo can
affect missionary service and a promise made by President Hinckley that one day
you will regret getting them.
ironmania:Another thought: The "tattooed Mormon
girl" got tattoos before she was converted to the gospel. Her situation is
very different compared to someone else who has been already been church member
for a while, is well aware of the church's doctrine against tattoos, but
gets a tattoo anyway. That is the important thing about not judging -- the
tatooed mormon girl wasn't always a member and was taught the gospel after
she got the tattoos! Also, the church's "True to the
Faith" manual states the following regarding tattoos:"If you
have a tattoo, you wear a constant reminder of a mistake you have made. You
might consider having it removed."There is no room for tattoos
for LDS church members who are aware of the doctrine. I recognize we cannot
always righteously judge someone's circumstances or reasons for getting a
tattoo (being non-member even a church member), so we need to be merciful.
However, the church's doctrine against tattoos is crystal clear.
ironmania:You stated, "I figured that as long as there are no
temple recommend questions asking about tattoos, then I would get one and could
still remain worthy to enter the temple."This kind of attitude
is very worrisome. We are to live in the world but not of the world.Tattoos are actually covered in the temple recommend questions as well. The
tattoo question in the form of (paraphrasing) "Do you sustain the general
authorities as prophets, seers, and revelators?" How can you sustain the
Brethren while simultaneously rejecting their counsel?Here are some
examples:President Monson, April 2010 conference, "Preparation
Brings Blessings" -- "Avoid extremes in clothing and appearance,
including tattoos and piercings."President Hinckley, April 2007
conference, "I am Clean" -- "Do not permit yourself to be
tattooed."Elder/President Packer, April 2009 conference,
"Counsel to Young Men" -- "[...] Do not decorate your body with
tattoos or by piercing it to add jewels. Stay away from that."For the Strength of Youth - "[...] Do not disfigure yourself with tattoos
or body piercings."Someone knowingly rejecting the
Brethren's counsel on tattoos, yet professing to a bishop or bishop's
counselor in a recommend interview that he/she sustains the Brethren, is very
Leo FemedlersI understand fully what prophets are supposed to be. I
was a member for 28 years, grew up in the church, went on a mission. I just
don't get how one could take council of not getting tattoos, more then one
ear piercing, or watching rated R movies seriously. You think those without
tattoos are more spiritually and temporally safe then those with tattoos? Same
thing with multiple piercings. If you can still do those things and get a temple
recommend then what is the big deal. The bad thing with this council is that
certain members start to not only make the decision for themselves whether or
not to do these things, but start to judge those who choose different then them.
This is a huge problem that will never be solved as long as 'prophets'
give advice that has no doctrinal bearing or any affect on whether or not
somebody can get to heaven. Why avoid getting a tattoo or multiple piercings if
you can still get to heaven just the same with them? Makes no sense.
I would recommend talking to her parents before the vacation. I was considering
getting a tattoo a while ago, but decided to "test the waters" with my
ultra religious in-laws before I did it. I sent an email telling my in-laws I
was considering a tattoo, and all Hades Fire broke loose after that. I had to
quickly tell everyone it was a practical joke, just to stop all the impassioned
phone calls and emails pleading for me to reconsider.When I finally
did get the tattoo, I kept it a secret. I guess I will either need to tell them
before the next swimming-related vacation, or just wear a shirt the whole time.
BrahmaTo understand what a prophet is and does one must first
believe that there are prophets. And there is a spectrum of belief and non
belief. I have found that the words of prophets past and present are essential
to spiritual and temporal safety. Faith in their words is a key element of
subsequent obedience to their words. Unless there is faith, obedience rarely
follows. Which is what my original point considered. The seed that is never
planted will never bear fruit. What matters in the end is what you know and how
well you lived up to that knowledge.
Man, these comments make me ashamed as a latter day saint. The question
wasn't "I got a tattoo help me" or "do you think I should have
gotten a tattoo", but rather how do I tell my parents about it. The
majority of the comments on here are simply passing judgement. Why don't
you check yourselves before passing judgement on a person who simply got a
tattoo? It's frustrating to be surrounded by people who worry about
watching glee or survivor because it's not righteous and chases away the
spirit and then are selfish and judgemental, but that doesn't seem to
bother them at all. The main thing is that they don't have a tattoo or
drink coffee etc!ArghThe Gospel is still true though...I believe in
the tentants of the Gospel, but I sure would love to change the culture as it is
We all need to respect the decisions of those we love. I got a tattoo a few
weeks ago. I was inspired by the woman who calls herself "the tattooed
Mormon." I figured that as long as there are no temple recommend questions
asking about tattoos, then I would get one and could still remain worthy to
enter the temple.Since getting my tattoo, I have been to the temple
several times, and have not regretted my decision.
My husband of seventeen years decided to give himself a father's day
present and got a tattoo without telling me. He was 64. When I noticed the
blood on his shirt he said it was a zit and he didn't want me to look at
it. He had given little hints, like when I said look at that motorcycle and he
went on to tell me who it belonged to and he was a famous tattoo artist. Like I
cared! I felt betrayed by the lie and the deceit. His only explanation was that
he'd always wanted one. Had he already had one before we got married, I
could have accepted it better. To do it behind my back was hurtful, even if he
is an adult. It was a stupid thing to do.
I try not to judge. Usually I can avoid over-reacting. However if someone is
considering a tattoo the following scripture should be considered: 1Cor 19-20:
your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost...ye are not your own. Ye are bought
with a price, therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit which are
RE:116 Alecias Wayc, “ does not mean we are heathens because of those
choices”?"Do not cut your bodies for the dead, and do not
mark your skin with tattoos. I am the LORD=(Jehovah)." Leviticus
19:28.(NLT) Leviticus, and the surrounding text, is specifically
dealing with the pagan religious rituals of the people living around the
Israelites. God’s desire is to set his people apart from other cultures.
The focus here is prohibiting worldly, heathen worship and witchcraft. God
forbids his holy people to engage in idolatrous, pagan worship and sorcery which
imitates the heathens. He does this out of protection, because he knows this
will lead them away from the one true God.The N.T. does not command
against tattoos or body piercings, but it also does not give us any reason to
believe God would have us get tattoos or body piercings.Romans 14:23
says that anything that does not come from faith is sin. Christians need to
remember that their bodies, as well as their souls, have been redeemed and
belong to God.
There are lots of reasons to NOT get a tattoo.But I would not
consider "council from my church leaders" as one of them.
If your parents freak out then they are the ones with the problem. I'm not
a fan of tattoos at all, and I would never think about getting one, but what
good does it do to get upset with you? This may be a good opportunity for them
to know you better, and for them to learn how to deal with your own adulthood
and personal agency. Write them a letter and tell them first why you are so
afraid for them to know, and then let them know. At least the dust will settle
before your trip, and it will hopefully improve your relationship with them. If
you're that scared of them then tattoos are the least of your worries.
This is one of those topics that will be heavily influenced by one's
background and beliefs.To LDS members and many other Christian
denominations, tattoos are generally seen as graffiti on the body. The LDS
First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have declared that they discourage
tattoos and multiple body piercings besides one set of pierced ears for
women.This doesn't mean that getting a tattoo condemns one to
Hell. That isn't the intention of the counsel. The counsel it there to
help us make spiritually healthy decisions including how we treat our
spirit's earthly tabernacle.And we should still love others
even if we disagree with a decision they make. Loving someone doesn't mean
that we have to agree with their decisions, and disagreeing with a decision or
lifestyle doesn't mean that we hate someone.
BrahmaBull: My point wasn't limited to people who think their body is a
temple. In the Navy, I never understood the allure of getting a tattoo in a
foreign port. I understand there was peer pressure but that's a pretty weak
excuse.I understand that, for some (like many Polynesians), tattoos
have cultural significance. That satisfies my curiosity about them.However, I have yet to see the tattoo that makes someone more attractive. Most
people I know who have a tattoo got it as a form of conformance (everybody else
has one so I'll follow along) or a sign of rebellion against the people who
love them the most (such as parents or church leaders).Granted, this
is not a scientific analysis. My anecdotal data comes from conversations with
family and friends who now sport tattoos. Most have outgrown their immaturity
and have some measure of regret. Some now have children and wonder how they will
rationalize it to their children without seeming hypocritical when they try to
teach them later. Almost all of them are a bit embarrassed that they fell in
with popular culture instead of considering all the ramifications.
Well, now that the deed is done and the tat isn't going anywhere, I'd
say tell them the sooner the better. I'd also suggest that if she does have
faith to pray that the Lord will soften her parent's hearts and that
she'll have courage plus the patience to say what would help defuse a
potentially ugly situation.
Leo FemedlersSomebody having a tattoo is the least of the worries of
our society. Also, prophets tend to give prophecies... when is the last time a
mormon church president has given a prophecy? I believe the prophets have given
many other councils such as no rated r movies, no multiple ear piercings, etc.
Do you really think it is a sin to get a tattoo or have multiple piercings? Does
god really disapprove of 3 piercings but is ok with one? I doubt any of these
things will matter in the end.
Funny story about my sister's tattoo. My mom wasn't very happy about
it, but hey, my sister was an adult and chose to do it. A while later,
she's in a wedding and the photographer got a shot of all the bridesmaids,
and my sister's tattoo showed in a fairly obvious spot. Then, the picture
hung in a department store. Somebody came into the store my mom managed and
started to degrade the picture, saying that ugly tattoo ruined the whole
picture, it looked awful, who would let their child do that, and on and on. My
mom finally got a word in, told the longtime customer that it was her daughter,
of whom she was proud, and the tattoo didn't ruin their relationship at
all. At that point, I think my mom realized what she said was true, that
the tattoo didn't change anything about her daughter.
@ Vangroovin--good points, especially the one re the living prophet. I was
recently reading about Alma's visit to Ammonihah. The people's hearts
were hardened to the point that they would not listen to him. (Alma 8:9)
It's been awhile since Pres Hinkley let the faithful know tattoos were a no
no. I don't recall that direction being rescinded by the current
leadership. So either he is a prophet or he isn't and we either listen to
him or we don't. No grey at all.
No, one need not think they were/are bad parents. Sons and daughters have to
answer for themselves whether they be wise or foolish, believing or rebellious.
MachadoProbably the same thing people think when they get a nose job
or breast implants. I am sure there is no solid answer that covers the thoughts
of every individual who gets a tattoo. Those who don't want them don't
have to get them. I have never liked the fact that there are Christians and in
Utah, Mormons, who think a tattoo is such a bad thing because your body is a
temple. These are often the same people who drink gallons of toxic coke or diet
coke, or eat poorly, or who have other bad habits that severely affect their
'temple' (body). What one sees as defiling the body, one sees as not
defiling. Nobody is perfect. She should just tell her parents and let the chips
fall where they may. If she is an adult, she should be able to do as she pleases
with no repercussions from her parents.
If you are one who believes in a living prophet (or, even if you aren't),
then my suggestion is to follow him. There are blessings who await those who
are obedient. Laws, commandments, and the like are put in place as a protection
to us. If we have made a wrong choice, then thankfully there is repentance and
forgiveness when we change our heart. If we can fully repent, then we can feel
the joy that comes when we are forgiven. There is no better feeling than
feeling the love of God come into our hearts and feel the atonement of our
Savior work for our benefit to make us clean.
hamletfan8,If you could do it over again, would you still get the
tattoo? In the context of a temple going LDS member, will you encourage your
children to get tattoos?
Just tell them. You cannot control how they will respond to your choice to
getting a tattoo anymore than they could control you to not get one in the first
place. They have a right to not agree with what you have done, but as others
have said they will still love you. Are you going to love them any less just
because they may be upset with you for a little while?
@JoeBlowThere is no judgement here. Simple issue, child rebels, child
regrets, parents accept. End of story.
I was in a similar situation. I got a tattoo when I was 19 NOT on impulse but
after a long and careful decision making process. When my mom saw my tattoo
months later, she was upset but after I helped her remember that I was still
very active at church, still temple worthy and still on the right path, she
calmed down. Today, 14 years later, I'm married in the temple and still
active at church so a tattoo is definitely not an indication someone is headed
to heck in a hand basket. My suggestion to this person, it down
with them and explain it before the trip and put the tattoo in the proper
perspective for them. Hopefully they will be reasonable and move on. Good luck!
I have to agree to tell them before the vacation to avoid the drama during what
should be a fun time. They love you. They may initially be very upset
(disappointed, angry, whatever); but will come to understand that you an adult
and allowed to make your own choices. It is not your job to live your life to
please them.All that said; I am a parent of a daughter with 3 pretty
cool tattoos (actually 2 are cool - one is ugly in my opinion); I'm not
LDS; and I've seen how so many LDS people get really overly excited about
this issue.I do know that parents love their children - even when
they don't approve. And love finds a way.
Tattoo: A permanent expression of a temporary feeling.
@Machado:Or, as I did, they probably think. I like tattoos. I want one
with meaning to me. I really don't care what other people think as I'm
not putting it on their body. I could go on, but truthfully, most people who
gets tattoos do so because they want one. And that is OK. Oh, and we don't
care what it will look like when we get old. By then, our skin is sagging, so
why shouldn't the tattoo. It's another story in what is hopefully an
I guess I don't understand the tattoo thing. What goes on in a
person's mind?- "I want to express my individuality ...
just like everyone else."- "I think Chris Anderson (The Bird in
the NBA) is the bomb. I want to look like him."- "The people who
love me most advise against it but, hey, my friends think it's
cool."- "I'm too young to be translated for perfect obedience
so this will keep me safe."- "Everybody has a touch of rebellion
now and again. This is mine."Seriously, what goes through the
mind of "someone who knows" when they decide to get a tattoo?
I really wonder how many people really, personally, "think something is
bad" or they are TOLD that something is bad (by church leaders perhaps) so
they accept that.Really, is a small butterfly tatoo on ones ankle
really a big deal? How about a sleveless shirt on a woman? Or a skirt that
comes just above your knee?I am not saying, "anything goes"
but sometimes we need to lighten up a bit.How many people follow
others "opinions" vs using their own judgement? Or let their own
judgement be changed by others "opinions"?
I guessing it, a girl with the tat. Some things are inevitable. Let it be known
before before they find out for them self.
This one is tough for me. I have always looked at tattoos as graffiti on your
spirits temple. My adult daughter and son both have a tattoo. They are both
not going to be seen in church clothing. They did the same as you, didn't
tell me until after the tattoo was in place. The question I have is why you
wouldn't tell your parent? Put yourself in their position, you find out
your child got a tattoo and kept it from you. The problem from the parents
point of view is two fold; first, they don't approve of the tattoo; second,
you were not honest with them and hid it from them. Having said all this, I
deeply love and respect my children. My bet is your parents will still love you
too. I agree with Angela, tell the parents before the vacation, don't wait
and ruin the vacation for everyone, including you.