@pocyYou're "done" because you are wrong. utah was
rejected by those players and your desperate attempts to spin it as utah not
having enough scholarships has been shown to be false. Yes recruits actually do
choose BYU and usu over utah, in fact this year more kids chose BYU than utah by
quite a long shot when both offered them scholarships. I understand that utah
"fans" have built this false mystique up about what the utah football
program is based on a couple of good seasons and a conference invite but it is
an illusion, it isn't real. utah is, and always has been, a very mediocre
program with little in the way of national accomplishments and no real respect.
I'm sorry I have to tell you this but it is simply the way it is. Just
being in the pac12 doesn't change that despite the "frantic and
emotional" attempts by utah "fans" to pretend that it constitutes a
legacy. You still haven't told me why utah waited two weeks to
sign those kids? Is it because you don't like the answer?
DuckThe ONLY 2 players I ever said Utah didn't sign because of
space were Tukuafu and Blackmon. And that absolutely still stands. LOI and schollies are completely different beast. Utah signed 21
LOIs on signing day, had 1 schollie left, at this point it looks like Kendall
Thompson will get it as he transfers from OU. You can accept the truth or not.
But it doesn't change the facts.You said Rivals changes their
rankings according to who offers the player. You still have shown no
documentation to support your claim. Dan Sorenson doesn't rate
the players. The national guys at rivals have the final say on all rivals
recruits. As for your claim it isn't on site, you couldn't be more
wrong. I read articles all the time from their national guys who are at
countless camps. I have presented the facts to you. You may do with
them as you wish. I am now done with this discussion.
pocyThis is directly from rivals website, you can google it."The rankings are compiled after countless hours of film evaluation,
personal observations and input from professional, college and high school
coaches."In rivals case it is basically film and input not
onsite observations. And any old clown can be an evaluator for rivals, take dan
sorenson for instance.
pocyI didn't say they would be on scholarship while out. BYU
just about always signs their kids that are leaving on missions, that is why it
is called a "SIGN AND SEND", not a "don't sign and send".
Your assertion that a school can only sign 25 kids is false, they can sign as
many as they want to sign and many schools do it. In most cases it is because
they are fairly sure many of them will not qualify academically so they sign
more knowing they'll really wind up with less. Or they know they are
leaving on a mission. Sometimes though it leaves a kid without a scholarship
because they over signed them. utah has dealt with enough
missionaries in their time that they know how this works so there was no reason
to wait two weeks to sign them unless they were hoping to sign someone else and
that is exactly what they did. If you have another reason/excuse why they waited
two weeks unnecessarily to sign the kids I'm all ears.
DuckThis is the first time Utah has ever signed their sign and sends
to LOI. Why they changed? I would guess, 2 words: Lowell Lotulelei. If they
don't have them sign the LOI, then the player is an open recruit IF they
come home from their mission early or change their mind. Signing the
LOI only obliges both parties to an agreement for 18 months, but, it
doesn't use a scholarship until that player enrolls in school. The fact is
Utah now has, and only had 1 scholarship available before they signed and after
they signed. Do you really think BYU or Utah or any other program
that signs missionaries has them on scholarship while they are gone? That is
what you are insinuating by saying that Utah is putting these guys on
scholarship.Still waiting on your source about Rivals rating system.
pocy then why didn't utah sign them on signing day two weeks ago? Why wait?
As was reported it is because utah didn't sign anyone else so they went
ahead and signed these guys. Yes I know they are leaving on missions and utah
hoped to not sign them now, thus not having them count against the limit, so
they could use those scholarships for other kids. After two weeks had passed and
they were unable to get anyone else worth having they went ahead and signed them
anway.BYU signed all of their missionary bound recruits, announced
them as signee's, and went about their business. If things at utah were
truly as you claim there would have been no reason at all to wait two weeks to
sign them, they would have done it on signing day and given those kids their
moment then.I've never seen such a desperate attempt to try and
claim two recruits that rejected a school really weren't wanted by that
Duckthink about what you're saying. Those players are not
going to be on scholarship this year They are not going to count on
scholarship. Kyle himself said on signing day they had just 1
scholarship available. How is that all of a sudden they have 5 more? Because
they don't. I am saying Lya is incorrect, yes, I am. That ONE scholarship
is likely going to go to Kendall Thompson who visited over the weekend.Listen, you can whine all you want, but Kyle knows his scholarship situation
a lot better than Lya and you do. BTW, I'm still waiting on
your source describing how Rivals rates it players according to the who offers
them. That's right, it doesn't exist, except in your mind.
Also pocy anyone that "knows what they are talking about" as you so
succintly put it, would realize that if it was really how you are trying to
portray it utah would have just signed those kids two weeks ago on signing day
and given them their fanfare then and not waited two weeks to do it. In fact you
made a big deal about them not signing them because they did not have the room
to do so yet here they are two weeks later signing them anyway, and putting out
a press release about it, because they did actually have scholarships available
and in fact they say they still have one more on top of those that they are
looking to award. They didn't sign them then because they were
hoping to sign other recruits, when that did not occur they signed them two
weeks later because they were not going to fill them all. That is what happened,
you are wrong, you continue to be wrong and I am embarrassed for you that you
continue to propogate this fallacy despite in print evidence proving you wrong.
Admit it and move on.
Uh pocy, it says right in the article they are "UNDER the SCOLARSHIP
limit" not under the LOI limit. Not only that it also states that even with
those signings they still have another SCHOLARSHIP left for THIS YEAR that they
are looking to award. In otherwords you were not just completely wrong you
continue to be wrong and you are now desperately trying to cover it up. They had those kids sign because they were under the limit of
scholarships, schools can sign more than 25 LOI's so you are wrong about
that as well. In fact if you simply look it up on your beloved rivals site you
will see there are schools that had over 30 loi's signed this year. So tell me again how come they still have another scholarship they are
looking to award this year if they are actually out of them?
Duckthere is a big difference between and LOI and initiating a
scholarship.Yes, they signed a LOI as the article said to let the
kids have the fanfare of signing something, but they are all sign and sends,
just like Tukuafu would have been. None of them will have their scholarship
initialized this year. THAT is the problem, not the number of LOIs, a school
can sign up to 25 LOIs, but they can't have more than 85 schollies.
Therefore, my statement is absolutely correct. It goes back to the
old saying that one should stay quiet and let others think they don't know
what they are talking about instead of speaking up and removing all doubt.
Chris B Your questions that you are asking worf is so irrelevant.
You went to 2 BCS bowl games, big deal. If they were National Championships it
would be a better argument. I know you will say, "here is another BYU fan
pointing out that they won a national championship", my reply is yes here I
am. But that's not the point. And the question about undefeated seasons,
you went undefeated against according to you "WAC" teams even though
they were MWC, you seem to refer the MWC as the WAC still not sure why. My point is you act like the frutes have made these huge accomplishments
over a long period of time. The fact is that the frutes had 2 yes 2 good
seasons, maybe 3 out of how many years? 100+ of competitive football and you
hang your hat on 2 or 3 good seasons? I think its comical. My advice to you is
come back to reality, your beloved football program is crap, and will be crap
for a long time. Oh by the way Colorado State beat Washington State. So your
perspective about the bad big fish is better than good small fish is deluded.
@pocyDid you happen to catch the following in the trib last
friday?"Since the Utes had room under the 25 scholarship cap,
they've gone ahead and signed Pita Tonga (6-2, 270), a defensive tackle
from Highland H.S., Thor Katoa (6-2, 220), a linebacker out of Pine View H.S.,
Kyle Christiansen (6-4, 320), a defensive tackle out of Mountain Crest H.S., and
Amone Finau (6-2, 180) out of Kearns H.S.....The Utes decided to go ahead and
sign the players so they could publicize the signings since they had enough
scholarships available to do so.The Utes still have one scholarship
available. Utah coach Kyle Whittingham said they'll use it on the "best
player available."Hmmm.....sounds like utah had plenty of
scholarships available despite your desperate attempts to claim otherwise. Not
only that but they still have another one available according to whittingham and
he will give it to the "best player available".Now tell me
again how utah was "out of scholarships".
@ CBWell I will say the Alabama victory doesn't matter as much after
this year.Alabama got trounced by a decent but not great Oklahoma team.Maybe if Alabama is not in the title game they just don't play well.The evidence suggests it.When did Utah win the national championship on
football? Please remind me.Some Utah fans have reminded us of their 1944
title.I will admit Utah had a couple good seasons but they are the new
Washington State of the Pac in football. They will rise up once a decade and be
good.There is a reason they are relegated to the Pac-12 Network most
games.I would love to be more optimistic. But Cal got recruits over Utah
and what was Cal's record?Even BYU and Washington State out recruited
worf,When was byu's last quest for perfection that was
perfected?When did byu last play in a big time bowl game?When did byu last finish in the top 5?When did byu last beat a
powerhouse SEC team in a bowl game?You beatn an 8-5 Oklahoma team 5
year ago and you think that is special?LOLI rest my case
@Uncle Rico & UteNationAlum:* BYU has won more games the past
twenty five years* BYU is seen more on television * Utes
can't win half their games* BYU beat Texas, and Oklahoma. When has
the utes beaten Boise State in the past decade?I rest my case!
Chris BYou continue to forget that the majority of the Players and
Fans on the Utah team are LDS and live the Utah culture, stop being so obtuse.
Whittingham is LDS for goodness sake's, he isn't going to ever drop
Utah culture, stop acting like you are the only fan they want to please.
Preeeeeeeeee season hype, they will be as bad as ever next season, you can go to
the bank on that one. So will BYU
@Worf"If not for BYU, the state of Utah would have little to no
football recognition."And remind me how BYU has more recognition
than the Utes, when they get beat by the Utes every year? I think I'm
confused. Playing Idaho State in November at 10pm doesn't
exactly get you recognized.
Re: worfUtah is the only team in the state that is in a big time
conference.When was the last time BYU beat a team that finished the season
ranked in the top 10 (Utah beat Stanford last year)?Best win last
year - Utah, they beat Stanford (a team that finished ranked #10 )Worst
loss - BYU, they lost to Virginia (Virginia was 0-10 in FBS games other than 1
win over BYU)Head to Head - Utah won for the 4th year in a rowBYU finished the season 2-5 vs BCS teams (and they didn't play a
conference champion or runner up)
Taking the "Utah Culture" out of the University of Utah eh Chris? That
would alienate nearly two-thirds of the instate recruits and drive actual fans
away while appealing to a very narrow section of fans who seem to cheer only to
annoy. Celebrate Utah for what it is instead of the fact that it isn't
BYU. Utah is a very solid University and has a good football team. Utah has several good LDS athletes coming back from missions. Harvey Langi is
the one I am looking forward to seeing the most. He should be making an impact
as soon as he is back into game form.
Position-by-position breakdown doesn't matter if you can't win half
your games.If not for BYU, the state of Utah would have little to no
Chris B. I am not sure why you repeat yourself on every post. We all get what
you are trying to say. One thing I don't get is that their is no more WAC.
The WAC has no fish. I'm just not sure if you realize that.
Here is why I like Whittingham, he can relate to and talk the Utah talk when he
wants to and needs to to get whatever local kids we want, but he then can drop
the religious overtones and be a regular coach and focus on winning first and
foremost. Its a fine balance you have to have at Utah - a coach
needs to understand the culture here, but at the same time I think as much as
possible we want to take the "Utah culture" OUT of the Utah football
I'm sorry, but anyone who has followed the offseason for Utah at all would
know that this just isn't accurate:QB: Yes, those are most of
the players involved, but, a poorly kept secret is Kendall Thompson graduated
junior from Oklahoma is likely transferring. He visited over the weekend.RB: Harvey Langi will be back in time for the season and will certainly
be in the mix at RB.The lines: First of all, Kyle has already
stated that Sam Tevi has switched from the D-line to the O-line. He is
absolutely in the mix for the starting LT position. Poutasi will absolutely
start, likely back at his more natural position of RT. Also, Andrew Albers is
in the mix of the LT prospects too.LBs: The 3 mentioned are great,
but it doesn't account for Gionni Paul and Uaea MasinaCB: Whit
has also said Rowe will be moved to CB. I appreciate the effort for
the write up, but please, let's at least make have infer that is accurate.
For those who think its better to be winning more games beating up on nobodies,
I'll remind you a small fish in a big pond is still BIGGER than a
"big" fish in a small pond. And the goal of every program
is to be as big as you can be.Small fish in the Pac 12 are
bigger(better) than big WAC fish.Need proof?See the Pac
12's 14-1 record against the WAC(including byu) last year.Recruiting?EVERY pac 12 team beat EVERY mwc team.Anyone who really believes this big fish in small pond thing as being better
must think it was better to be Fresno than Alabama this last year since Fresno
was the biggest fish in their pond but Alabama was not the biggest fish in the
SEC pond.LOL. Keep telling yourself it was better to be Fresno than
Alabama last year!
There are no moral losses, but playing the hardest schedule in the nation would
likely not end well for any team.Our first year in the Pac 12 we
could not have taken ranked asu, ranked UCLA, and ranked OSU down to the final
play. We could not have beaten end of season top 10 Stanford.There
has been great improvement the last couple years, but we have to remember that
we don't have any gimme wins any more like when we beat up on MWC nobodies.
Going forward the next two years we wont even have gimme wins against local WAC
programs. So the challenge continues, but its one we welcome.Proud
UteProud Pac 12 memberproud Whittingham supporterWhittingham has taken us to the top of the nation before as the only
undefeated team as our quest ended in perfection, and he'll take us back to