Comments about ‘Was the 2009 stimulus bill a failure?’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 18 2014 12:40 p.m. MST

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Baron Scarpia
Logan, UT

So the stock market is soaring and companies are raking in massive profits... but those same companies refuse to hire domestically... this is the hazards of stimulating a "free market" where companies that benefit have no obligation to return the favor to broader society.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Baron,
the porkulus was about shovel-ready jobs in the US. Your comment about the stock market and off-shoring jobs is irrelevant when the porkulus was supposed to be about shovel ready jobs.

of course, even BO admitted later the jobs weren't so shovel-ready, yuck yuck, hah hah.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

@high school fan "Has anything that Obama has done accomplished anything positive?" Where have you been the last 6 years? Absent Obama we could have had a 2nd Great Depression and a fascist revolt. Obama gets a lot of credit from me, and anyone who has been paying attention.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Darmando,
You got your intersection almost a year ahead of schedule... that's what makes it seem like a success.

It's a fact... Some jobs WERE created (temp jobs, but they were jobs). But Obama's own economists did the math and figured out that it cost the government $278,000 per Job (Dollars spent/jobs created).

Somebody in Congress pointed out that the government could simply have cut a $100,000 check to everyone whose employment was allegedly made possible by the “stimulus,” and taxpayers would have come out $427 billion ahead.

So we could have given everybody $100,000 to just stay home and watch TV... and been $427 billion ahead! But you wouldn't have gotten your intersection.

So I guess it was worth the $427 billion extra we spent.

$278,000 per Job... that's a lot for a construction worker, or a guy holding a slow/stop sign.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Ken
I didn't say unemployment started falling, I said the number of jobs lost in February was fewer than January (sorry for being unclear). We lost 700k in January but only lost around 600k in February and that continued to decrease until by early 2010 we were gaining jobs instead. Realistically that's about as fast as one could expect a turnaround to occur, you'd have to make an incredibly massive forcing to go much faster than that (like entering WWII in 1941).

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@2 bits
"$278,000 per Job... that's a lot for a construction worker"

Half the stimulus was tax cuts. And besides, this isn't 278k per job per year. A lot of these jobs are several to many year positions.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

marxist,

Where is the support for your assertion he prevented another depression? you have none because none exists.

your comment is incorrect as evidenced by the fact less than 5% of the porkulus had been spent when the economy started to recover. BO did NOTHING to prevent a second great depression; he has only weakened the current recovry.

No, let me correct myself, your comment about a fascist revolt could easily be interpreted to refer to how BO has been sidestepping congress and acting like a dictator. So there is some validity to your comment - about the fascism, not the economics.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "atl134" how about we measure the success of the stimulus by the labor participation rate, that is a measure of the percnet of people actually working in the US. According to the BLS we have the lowest participation rate since 1979. If the stimulus worked, why is it that the labor participation rate is so low?

If you look at the U6 unemployment numbers, things look worse because that is still above 12%. It looks worse for Obama if you look at the graphs of the U6 unemployement during his term in office.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

@Anti Government
Unfortunately now our 2 parties are the progressives and the democrats. The republicans are now just the old democrats and the old democrats are full blown socialists.

[LOL, ROTFL]

========

@high school fan "Has anything that Obama has done accomplished anything positive?"

[Osama Bin Laden. Another hater all-things Obama. He if he curedcancer, feed the planet, and ushered in the Millineum -- you would still find nothing positive.]

============

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

I am not a lemming or a card carrying political hack.
I criticize Obama all the time.
Both sides.
because I am honest and have integrity.

Prof. Richard Davis is singling out those who are critical of the opposing no matter what -- yet willfully are blind of their side.

Regardless of what is Right or Wrong.

I agree with Prof. Davis --
They lack honesty AND integrity.

BTW -- Obama failed me many times because;
I wanted s Single-Payer Option in the ACA,
tax increases on those making over $1 million / year,
and
we do not have MORE eco-friendly Green, Renewable Energy programs like he promised.

Now --
Do I hear ONE Republican admitting the GWBush/Cheney wars were wrong? one?

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

"Until those very simple questions are answered, we can only assume that someone is hiding the information [about the ARRA]. Hiding information is just another way of saying that the program failed."

"The 2009 stimulus was supposed to go to shovel ready infrastructure jobs. Where did the money go? Who knows? Obama didn't give an account. . ."

It always cracks me up, these people that think there is some huge conspiracy because THEY are uninformed. What? Did President Obama not call you and tell you where the money went? Did you not get a personal email about it from anybody?

You know, it's rather amazing the amount of research you can do just using the internet. There is a helpful site at Recovery dot gov. It will tell you exactly where the money has gone. (Of course you have to look around the site a bit. You have to do a little bit of work yourself. But the site is user friendly. You can do it.) Nobody is hiding anything.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Open Minded Mormon,
Are you still stuck in Bush beating mode? He's long gone!

If you want someone to say the GWBush/Cheney wars were wrong... I'll say it. They were wrong.

But President Obama doesn't agree. He said the actions we took in Afghanistan were needed. And he has continued the war in Afghanistan and actually escalated it. Obama thinks Iraq was a mistake, but that depends on your perspective (IMO).

Remember Congress had access to the same intelligence reports Bush had, and approved the wars. Both of them. Democrats included. So you can't just blame Bush or Cheney exclusively (although I know it's a fun sport).

But I'm one Bush Supporter who can admit that he made mistakes (from the Monday quarterback perspective).

But I don't think that blaming is the most important thing in all things. Finding solutions is.

Regardless of whether the 2009 stimulus bill was a "failure" or not... should we do it again?

Probably not. So that's what's important. That we learn lessons.

A nation can't borrow it's way to prosperity. Someday the debt has to be paid.

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

@Open mind,

Two can easily play that game.

You are honest and full of integrity because you "criticize" Obama for not being as liberal as you wish?

Ok, here goes:

I too am very honest

And I am full of integrity because I don't look at party affiliation when I criticize someone

I will criticize both parties and I often do.

What do I criticize bush for?

Lots of things:

I wish Bush had cut entitlement programs.

He should have cut them in half.

Bush should have reduced the tax rate and given taxpayer money back to taxpayers

Bush should have invested more in the development and extraction of natural resources like coal and oil.

Bush should have increased our military spending to better protect our country.

I am a very honest person and can criticize BOTH parties.

More people really need to learn from my example.

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

alt,

And if unemployment had decreased right after in a pattern but job losses had increased, would you have cheery picked the unemployment and left out the job loss information to support your theory? Try to be honest here.

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

Don't you think that criticism of our president has gone far beyond the point of ridiculous! There are a lot of good things our president has done and considering where Bush left us, we have come a long way. I worked directly with stimulus funds and seen the wok that it generated for local companies here in Utah and you better believe that it helped them a lot, considering Face it, Obama has done much better than people thought, but don't expect any republican to admit that! You know, republicans say whatever they want and expect people to believe it! People support the president much more than republicans say and compare it to the support republicans give each other, I don;t think you have anything to talk about. I can't think of anything that republicans have done and they have the nerve to judge Obama! Give me a break!

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "RFLASH" what has Obama done that is good? Everything he has touched has turned out poorly. The ACA's cost has trippled, and is killing jobs. His jobs programs have yet to actually produce jobs. He has killed domestic oil production on Federal lands. He wants to raise minimum wage, which will kill more jobs. He made the worst parts of the Patriot Act permanent. Obama's administration has been implicated in the IRS scandal.

Now, before you think I support Bush, tell me what Obama has done that is different than Bush?

What great accomplishment has Obama done that Bush hadn't already done? If you say Osama, remember Bush go Saddam, so they both got a tyrant.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT
To "RFLASH" what has Obama done that is good? Everything he has touched has turned out poorly.

Now, before you think I support Bush, tell me what Obama has done that is different than Bush?

--------

Bush: 1 million troops, 12 years, $3 Trillion -- nothing.
Obama: 12 Navy Seals, 12 minutes, $3 million (because of the helicopter, and even at that 1/1,000,000th the cost of Bush) -- and Osama Bin Laden is dead.

OK Bush supporter, your move.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Open Minded Mormon" really??

You realize that those troops freed 2 countries and got rid of tyrants in those countries.

Yes Obama got Bin laden, but Al Qaeda is still alive. He might as well be bragging about killing Abdul the terrorist. Killing Bin Laden did nothing to stop terrorism. Killing him probably hurt the US more because his secrets went with him.

Plus, you forget that Bush got Saddam.

So, so far all you have proven is that you hate Bush, and love Obama. Is that really an accomplishment for Obama?

What has Obama done that is different than Bush? You still have to answer that question.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Resshirt - job well done. Do you also realize you're arguing with Pagan. He changed screen names a while ago but its been quite obvious.

Everything will always be bush's fault and the only time he'll criticize anyone is for not being a liberal extremist as he thinks they should be.

Barack has promised a lot with the economy and failed on every one.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

Redshirt, and all you have proven is that you hate Obama. What's your point?

Also, the question isn't who can criticize who, the question is Redshirt and Chris, can you find anything positive to say about the current president? See, the thing is, if you can't, you are just pure partisans. Nothing more. You will never look realistically at an issue, and as such your opinions are easily dismissable by those who are thoughtful.

For instance, look at both your lists of criticisms. All of your points are very debatable, many of your points our outright misrepresentations.

Both of you make broad generalizations that are just plain silly:

"Everything he has touched has turned out poorly."

And

"Barack has promised a lot with the economy and failed on every one."

These types of comments can't even come close to be taken serious by anyone that is even somewhat knowledgable about the real world. But go ahead and keep patting each other on the back.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "mark" how about this. Obama is the best liar that I have ever seen in office, and has the best control over the media out of any president in history. As the Onion pointed out in 2008, Obama could go on a killing spree and the media would ignore it. He could probably stand there, covered in blood and tell you with a straight face that he had nothing to do with it, and many would believe him.

If Obama's promises on the economy have not failed, name one. He promised that unemployment would go down. However, when you look at the actual numbers, unemployment is still high because people are just quitting the labor force. He keeps promising that jobs are his highest priority, yet does nothing. When he took office, gas was less than $2/gallon, but through most of his presidency it has remained closer to $3/gallon.

Tell us, what has Obama actually done that hasn't backfired?

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