BYU basketball: Cougars get another shot at a ranked team Thursday

Return To Article
Add a comment
    Feb. 19, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    Chris, can you answer a simple question: Why is BYU in the tournament discussion in every major outlet with more losses than a team with a better record who beat them and plays in a tougher conference?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 19, 2014 9:53 a.m.


    "They beat Texas while on the road and were very competitive in the all the other ranked opponent games but one."

    Speaking of Texas, remember when you tried convincing us Texas won the big 12 and played in a BCS game last year? You'll have to understand then why we take anything you say with a big grain of salt.

    I flip flop because I agree sometimes with byu fans if they make a good point? No, that's called being logical and reasonable. You should try it sometime. But it makes clear why you just take the opposite view of whatever I say, even when it flies in the face of reason.

    The fact is byu needs to win their tournament to go dancing. Now, that shouldn't be that tough for a big time program like byu since the WCC is the 9th "best" conference in the nation per ESPN. But considering byu hasn't won a conference tournament in over a decade, probably slim to no chance that happens

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 19, 2014 3:50 a.m.

    "Indeed there will be another mauling this week at the HC. Go Cats."

    Another? Utah is 16-1 at home, and the only loss was by 2 points in OT....

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Feb. 18, 2014 9:29 p.m.

    Re: poyman

    I stand by what I said earlier. Scheduling cupcakes did set the Utes up for failure in their conference schedule, but I believe the good outweighs the bad in that scenario. The last several seasons with losing records has resulted in a sense of despair on the hill. Most of the top recruits transferred and fan attendance remained poor. I think the Utes needed to feel like there was a light at the end of the tunnel... even if it was a false hope. Winning games is a good idea, even to low RPI teams.

    Meanwhile the Cougars scheduled an incredibly difficult schedule which has worked out well for them. Despite four horrible losses they are still in the tourney picture because they've shown they can hang with the top teams.

    I don't get you trying to discredit my post by painting me as a flip flopper. I've always tried be thoughtful in my analyses, sorry if you disapprove of that approach. Go Cougs!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 18, 2014 6:57 p.m.

    Wow... So many things to disagree with and only 200 words.

    You're right Old... Close losses to very good teams do matter... That is a significant consideration in both the BPI and the RPI... That is why more teams get into the Tournament from the Big 10, the Big 12 and even the big bad pac12... In football that is all we heard from ute fans... "the big bad pac12 is a tough conference and that's why we have so many losses, otherwise we'd be bowling"...

    And Bager-Cougar, it almost sounds like you are running for Governor... "you apparently feel very strongly both ways"... While it is true that the utes have obviously improved (shoot they beat the Cougs for the 2nd time in 13 tries), it was not a good idea to schedule all home games against traditionally lower RPI teams (with the exception of the Cougs)... It left them poorly prepared for quality oponents in Conference... They played 7 OOC games against teams with RPIs above 200 plus 2 lower division teams with no RPI at all(all at home)... That accounts for 9 of their 17 wins... Without them, they have their 5th straight losing season.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 4:35 p.m.

    Wow. Interesting that Chris B once again has the first comment to an all-BYU article. And not only that, but 6 of the first 18 comments... a full one-third.

    Talk about an obsession. The proof is right there.

    Chris... it's also interesting how you've spend so much time countering and criticizing comments of BYU fans in almost countless articles, but now have started to act like you agree with a few if and only when it fits into your anti-BYU agenda. That's the true definition of a flip-flopper. You should give serious consideration to running for political office.

    Back on subject. The truth about BYU playing more ranked teams this season than just a handful of other teams, is that they've proven they can actually play with the big-boys. They beat Texas while on the road and were very competitive in the all the other ranked opponent games but one.

    I'm reasonably certain they lost only that one by double digits. The others went to the the wire and ended with only single digit differences. Commendable to anyone who watches and accesses college basketball games objectively.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Feb. 18, 2014 3:48 p.m.

    I don't think BYU will win but it would be nice.
    I agree that "good losses" don't exist.
    But I am not this old fellow. I use 1 moniker because that is all I need. I would not lie about where I live either.
    Have a good day.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Feb. 18, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    @ CB
    I doubt that BYU will beat Gonzaga but it would be nice.
    I do not know why you are addressing me. I have not commented on this article.
    I have only one moniker that I use, I do not need more than one to try to validate my points like some do.
    I also state where I live and that is Wyoming.
    I am not very old either probably younger than most posters here.
    Have a good day.
    And I agree there are no such things as good losses.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 1:42 p.m.


    In the Big 10 it probably makes sense there is no such thing as a bad loss. But there certainly does exist bad losses(Lola Mary community, Pepperdine, Pacific, Wahsington State).

    Further, there still is not a good loss. Never has been, never will be. No one cares if you were on the same floor as a good team. Any team is capable of losing to a good team.

    There are good wins, mediocre wins, and bad losses. Good losses are only in the minds of byu fans it appears.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 1:40 p.m.


    I agree with just about everything you said. Fair analysis.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    Feb. 18, 2014 1:34 p.m.

    Chris B

    You are correct on one level--there is no good loss. However, in determining the brackets some losses are worse than others. That was my point; this goes to how the selection committee will consider strength of schedule.

    Imagine my amazement when I went to the ESPN web-site and saw this 'headline' regarding bubble teams:

    "The Big Ten's collective strength actually makes its bubble fortunes easier to predict. With no such thing as a bad loss, opportunity abounds."

    I suggest that the losses you claim BYU fans perceive as moral victories are, because of the quality of the opponents, surely no worse than the Big Ten losses not being bad losses.

    I'm sure the fact that ESPN "bracketeers" ignore the Utes and keep BYU in the bubble discussion is annoying.

    Go Bruins!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Feb. 18, 2014 12:14 p.m.

    Chris B.

    "Would you agree rankings "at the time of the game" are worthless?"

    Yes, I mostly agree with this statement... especially early in the season. By this point in the season rankings are worth a little more, but I certainly agree with you on this point. I also feel (contrary to a few cougar fans) that Utah did the right thing in scheduling a super easy OOC schedule this year. I don't think they had any chance of going dancing this year and winning some games is a good way of getting confidence back, establishing some tradition, and improving recruiting. I think Utah has certainly over-achieved this season and is generating the right kind of momentum moving forward.

    That being said, I think your criticism of BYU's schedule is ridiculous as they also did what was best for their team. That being scheduling a very difficult OOC schedule to make up for the weaker in-conference slate. In the end I feel both BYU and Utah have great schedules this year. Utah has overachieved and BYU has underachieved. Which is the better program? I'm not sure but the future looks bright for both.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 11:53 a.m.


    I wrote it incorrectly. There is no such thing as a good loss as you byu fans are trying to make believe.

    The experts do consider good wins(road wins, wins against good opponents). They also consider bad losses(losses to Lola Mary community, Pacific, Pepperdine, Washington State).

    No one gets brownie points for a "good loss"

    It doesnt' exist. No one cares about moral victories.

    At least that's why byu fans have been saying for years.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    Feb. 18, 2014 11:14 a.m.


    Did I misread or did you misspeak?

    "Good wins are considered and bad losses. There is no such thing as a bad loss. You byu fans need to stop the flip flopping."

    Your first sentence suggests the NCAA considers "bad losses." Then you contradict yourself by saying "There is not such thing as a bad loss." in the very next sentence.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 11:09 a.m.

    "There are no moral victories" even though that has been the battle cry of Ute fans through both major sport seasons THIS YEAR.

    You (ute) fans need to stop the flip flopping.


  • red.diehard Central, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    @The Anti Chris

    Courage? Desperate acts seeking credibility is a better description.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 9:50 a.m.


    Good wins are considered and bad losses. There is no such thing as a bad loss. You byu fans need to stop the flip flopping.

    There are no moral victories and no expert talks of "good losses"

    I hope you can see this is very simple.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    Feb. 18, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    Chris B

    "Like byu fans told us all football season, played ranked teams counts for NOTHING if all you do is lose."

    That tends to be true for football, not so true for basketball. The reason? Losing close games to Iowa State/Wichita State/etc. on the road will be considered a positive in consideration for the NCAA tournament.

    The bowl selection process for football, not so much.

    I hope you can now see the distinction.

  • The Anti Chris Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 9:40 a.m.

    At least has the courage to play ranked teams outside of the conference. U will only play St. Katherine college and the likes outside of conference. Who do you think will get the better look when it comes to the NCAA or NIT? U is hitting a tough part of their schedule I don't see but one more win this year and since the pac tourney is on the road............well we know how that goes.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Feb. 18, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    Indeed there will be another mauling this week at the HC. Go Cats.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 8:47 a.m.


    You are right, Texas is ranked. Unlike byu fans, I can admit when I miss something like that because like you stated, I have always said the rankings "at the time" don't mean a thing(unless people really think USC football was the best team in the nation two years ago as they were ranked #1 at the start of the season)

    Would you agree rankings "at the time of the game" are worthless? If you don't - you must think USC was the best team in football two years ago at the beginning of the season.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Feb. 18, 2014 7:51 a.m.

    "And byu has a .000 winning percentage against ranked teams."

    Unless we use the standard whereby Chris B. measures things (currently ranked, or ranked at end of season). Under that metric BYU has a .333 winning percentage against ranked teams.

  • Gibster San Antonio, TX
    Feb. 18, 2014 4:59 a.m.

    Another mauling in the making Go Zags.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 18, 2014 3:03 a.m.

    The Cougs have lost 4 games this year to ranked opponents... Only one of those was at home and it was by 2 points to Iowa State at home after leading by as much as 10 points the entire game... The other 3 were on the road with a 10 point loss to UMass when they were #1 in the RPI and it was down the street from their school; another was to still undefeated Wichita State who lost in the Championship game last year (it was a 13 point loss but was neck and neck late in the second half till Austin got hit with a Flagrant Foul and an ejection); and the third was an OT loss to Oregon in Eugene when they were 12th and undefeated... Had we shot our normal terrible 67% that would have been a W as we led by 10 the entire game... Texas was probably better than all of them and we beat them on the road.

    We have the ability and this time we also have them on our floor... Their is an "invite to the dance" if the team wants it bad enough. They need to play hungry and take nothing for granted.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 18, 2014 2:49 a.m.

    Some people cut back on their taunts after having to eat numerous servings of crow, some don't... Those that don't, don't get embarrassed by much of anything and simply start to garner less and less attention with their words... In fact, at some point they don't get much of any attention.

    Hopefully the Cougs will be hitting their Free Throws, keeping their Bigs out of foul trouble, hitting their share of 3 balls, and defending the perimeter... If they do those things they will win... Pangos and Dower are the two that can hurt us... We can't let Dower get the ball at the high post and we can't let Pangos have an open 3 (he needs to be guarded like Halpern guarded Johnny Dee from San Diego... Somebody needs to be inside Pango's jersey the entire game.

    This game is important to both teams... Possibly most important for the Cougs who need the win to improve positioning for an Invite, and to the Zags who are looking for better seeding (right now they are probably a #6 and could slip to a #7 or #8 if they can't take care of the Cougars.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 9:50 p.m.

    Like byu fans told us all football season, played ranked teams counts for NOTHING if all you do is lose.

    And byu has a .000 winning percentage against ranked teams.