Comments about ‘Local NFL watch: 16 players with Utah ties to participate in 2014 NFL Scouting Combine’

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Published: Tuesday, Feb. 18 2014 1:08 a.m. MST

Updated: Tuesday, Feb. 18 2014 1:08 a.m. MST

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SamoanYfan
WEST JORDAN, UT

Yeah go PAC-12!

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

@samoanyfan,

here is a fun fact:

Van Noy will become the first person ever drafted by a Bronco mendenhall recruit.

How funny is that?

9 years later he gest his first recruit that he drafted.

Whittingham has 20.

Think recruits know how many guys Whit has put in the NFL draft vs. Bronco?

You'd better believe it!

Herbert Gravy
Salinas, CA

@ChrisB

Hey, Chris, old friend, just who is the "Bronco Mendenhall recruit" that is going to draft Kyle Van Noy? Name, please?

SamoanYfan
WEST JORDAN, UT

@Chris B.

The only fun fact that I really care about is that the PAC-12 is the best conference in the nation.

Go PAC-12 Yeah!

Onward and Upward

SamoanYfan
WEST JORDAN, UT

@Chris B.

Oh and BTW...it's not Whittingham vs. Bronco it's Utah vs. BYU. How many recruits would Whittingham put in the NFL if he coached for BYU? My guess is not very many. It's BYU, how many kids coming out of high school wanna play for a university that has an honor code? How many? It's not the religion that turns kids off its the honor code.

Even being an active LDS member and how much I love BYU I would even have a hard time with the thought of messing up may get me kicked off the team or even out of the school.

So please stop comparing Utah recruits vs. BYU recruits because they're not even close

Onward and Upward

Christopher B
Ogden, UT

samoan,

here we go again. BYU fans use the honor code as an excuse for not having good teams/players whenever they need to.

Yes, its true many recruits who never consider byu because of the honor code, but what byu fans fail to acknowledge is the opposite is also true - many kids(mostly LDS) choose byu BECAUSE OF the honor code(uniqueness of byu).

The population of kids byu has to choose from is smaller than for other schools... BUT(and again this is what byu fans need to realize) there are 125 division 1 schools and for every kid that doesn't want to go to byu, there are 124 schools that may be going after in.

Conversely, when a kid is LDS byu has as astronomically high ADVANATAGE as the other 124 schools don't stand much of a chance.

So unless you can prove that the LDS population is somehow worse at football than the non-LDS population you really haven't proven anything with your honor code excuses.

Its an ADVANTAGE in recruiting for byu as well.

SamoanYfan
WEST JORDAN, UT

Nowhere in my comment did I say that we are not good or get good players because of the honor code, because we do. It's not an excuse it's just a reality that we don't get the higher talent. The probability of a non-LDS kid NOT choosing BYU because of the honor code is much higher than an LDS kid choosing BYU because of it.

If you don't believe that then take a survey and ask 100 unbiased non-LDS people (who are not Ute fans as well) if they would attend BYU knowing full well what the honor code means. When you're finished post your results...I will do the same.

But your original comment was about Kyle vs Bronco recruits. You didn't answer my question: How many recruits would Kyle put in the NFL if he coached for BYU? Kyle is a great coach but I highly doubt he'd have any more success than any other BYU coach because it's BYU. But we will never know unless Kyle coaches there.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

samoan,

You completely contradict yourself there. You've never said byu doesn't get good talent because of the honor code but then say because of the honor code byu doesn't get higher talent?

I never said there aren't many who wouldn't attend byu because of the honor code.

Go back and read my comment.

What I said is that although byu's overall population may be smaller they are going after it, they get a much HIGHER percentage of the recruits the go after BECAUSE of the honor code. In many cases, byu isn't really fighiting 124 other schools for each and every recruit.

All other schools have to do that.

So whether you start with a bigger population and get a very very small percentage of the recruits you can go after or start with a smaller population but get a LOT of the recruits you go after, you end up about the same.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

samoan,

Unless you can prove that the average Mormon kid is inherently worse at football than the aveage non-Mormon kid - you really have no reason to say the honor code hurts recruiting.

Yes, it prevents you from getting some kids, but it HELPS you get many kids. So those offset and there is no difference unless you can prove that the population of kids who would be interested in byu(both Mormon and not) are inherently worse at football than the non-lds kids.

If that is your claim - please prove that.

SamoanYfan
WEST JORDAN, UT

Chris,

You're right my comment is contradictory, I just failed to properly convey my opinion. But I see you're side and logic I really do and totally respect it, however it's still my opinion (which does NOT reflect the opinions of ALL byu fans) that BYU's recruiting pool is still limited because of it. True they have an advantage with the LDS kids but like you said that pool is small. Plus I do not use that as an excuse as to why they suck, I have no explanation for that...but you do I'm sure.

Im still interested in your opinion though if you think Kyle would produce more NFL talent than Bronco if he coached at BYU? I do believe he would be a better coach than Bronco, but as far as producing NFL talent...I don't know about that.

I am a Utah graduate and I support the Utes. They are better and get better recruits I will never argue with you on that.

Go Cougs and Utes!

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

samoan,

I've always agreed byu's pool is limited What I am saying though is limited pool does not mean different level in talent unless you can prove that the smaller byu pool is somehow inherently worse at football than the larger pool.

Having a larger pool isn't necessarily better when you are fighting 124 other division 1 schools for every recruit like Utah and every other program in the nation has to do. BYU doesn't have to fight 124 other schools for every recruit.

I'll throw out some numbers to prove what I mean.

If byu has 2% of the population to recruit from(Mormons or non-Mormons ok with honor code) and gets 50% of the kids they want that gives them 1% "success rate"(or whatever term you want

Utah(or any other school) has 100% of population to recruit from but only gets 1% of athletes we go after since we're competing against 124 other schools for every recruit(byu doesn't as many LDS kids WANT to go to byu). So Utah ends at 1% also.

And unless you have proof the 2% byu population is inherently worse at football, the limited pool doesn't mean much.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

samoan,

If you look at the level of talent Bronco and Kyle have brought in over their time as head coaches, its about the same. We can start a whole conversation on recruiting rankings if you want, but suffice it to say they have recruited about the same level of talent over the past decade, with byu having better years several times.

So with that said, I don't see why Kyle wouldn't produce more NFL talent than Bronco even if Kyle were at byu, since like I said, they've worked with more or less the same level of talent but Kyle does a much better job at developing those guys.

SamoanYfan
WEST JORDAN, UT

Your numbers and logic are perfectly sound and make perfect sense to me, they really do.

That's my point here, the honor code:

If 2% are OK with the honor code that leaves 98% that are not.

I've always wanted a good secondary for the Y. If a cornerback within that 98% is only recruited by BYU and Utah State. He is better (as in star rating) than the corner that's in the 2% BYU is going after. The Y really really wants this 98% guy. USU gives him a scholarship offer but doesn't show as much love as BYU. If he's not OK with the honor code he will not choose BYU.

That's what Im saying. The 1% BYU does get I'm NOT saying they are inherently worse, I just believe that there's better talent.

But ultimately it does come down to coaching and I believe Whit is a better coach for sure.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

samoan,

You still aren't explaining why there is a difference in talent between the 2% byu goes after(and gets a high percentage of) vs the 98% that Utah goes after(but gets a very low percentage of)

I really feel like I'm being quite clear.

YOu haven't explained why there is any difference in talent between the 2% and the 98%.

What about the situation where there is a good corner in the 2%? byu has as good of a chance at landing the guy in the 2% as Utah does of landing the guy in the 98% because Utah is fighting 124 other schools for him.

And why isn't the guy in the 2% have as good of a chance at being a higher star than any random guy in the 98%?

BeSmart
Cheyenne, WY

@ CB
Well you make a confusing (poorly explained) argument.
If Utah is recruiting against 124 other schools and get only 1 percent of the recruits well then that is bad recruiting. They should out recruit the 60 non power conference schools.
you can use the ESPN 300 roughly 250 are from the deepsouth (others from texas east coast and a few in cali) consider that the east coast is .5% lds (on the high side)that would be 1.5 recruits per year that is elite talent and lds. If BYU get 50% of them they would have .75 elite talent every year so 2 every 3 years.
So Utah is battling 100 other schools (not like old dominion is going to out recruit the utes)they should land 3 a year or using your 124 2.3 a year.
How many kids who are fine with the honor code I have no idea, but I doubt many athletes go to BYU because they want the honor code (most likely go for other reasons)
Devon Blackmon is the only player I know of that directly cited the honor code as a reason to attend.

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