To "Open Minded Mormon" have you seen the latest numbers on what the
giveaways that your ilk likes have done to the US?According to the
CBO the ACA will kill 2.5 million jobs over the next 10 years.Also,
according to the CBO, raising minimum wage will kill another 500,000 jobs. On
top of that, a lot of the minimum wage earners live in middleclass homes or are
single college kids.Social Security is another joke. It is already
paying out more than it takes in, and is destined to end in collapse. All of
that on top of once SS is dead, the government will be forced to go to other
more expensive places to borrow money, which adds to the national debt.
Open Minded Mormon:Continuing liberal "take-aways"?Small Businesses.Borders that mean anything.Laws that are meant to
be enforced.Religious liberty.The main reason to get up every
morning and go to work instead of sitting on the couch watching TV all day!
LDS Liberal:I'm sorry, but listing countries that have unions
or countries that prohibit them is NOT an answer to the question: Do unions help
workers more than harm them?Excessive union demands have killed
entire industries in this country (or just driven all the jobs overseas).
Government unions are bankrupting cities and states. Millions of dollars in
forced union dues are often spent on the political pet causes of the union
leadership that often is in direct conflict with the best interests of the rank
and file membership.Please address those points instead of just
telling us that Austria has unions or Iraq does not. Why is the liberal response
to many legitimate questions a deflection rather than an answer?
Next Conservative "take-aways"?, Healthcare, Minimum
Wage, and then, Social Security.Always taking away
trampling the poor, sick, elderly and the needy, Always the give-aways to
the uber-Wealthy have everything in this world, except enough money...
To "LDS Liberal" you are wrong. The Middleclass was created,
ironically, by the plagues in Europe. When labor became scarse because they
were dead, the wealthy land owners were forced to pay laborers more. Then, as
the laborers earned more money they began to develop their own trade with other
people and nations.You really should read more about history. The
fact is that capitalism builds nations, while unions and collectivism destroys
them.Actually, unions are alive and well in China. They have become
a single union, and are the only legally recognized union. Read up on
All-China Federation of Trade Unions.Bangledesh passed laws last
year to allow Unions. India also has many legal unions, so again, you are
wrong.For those that think unions are great, why is it Unions are to
thank for the $1500 to $2000 addional cost for new cars made by US
manufacturers?Also if unions are so great, why is it that so many
companies in the US that used to be union shops are now doing a lot of
manufacturing outside of the US where labor is cheaper and unions are not as
JoeCapitalist2Orem, UTLabor Unions exist in Germany, Japan,
Canada, and ANY other country doing better than the United States.Ironically -- They are outlawed in Communist China, Bangledesh, India,
and Somalia.So, to answer your question -- Are unions helping or
harming workers overall?Helping.Conservatives are fighting to
be like Communist China, Somalia, and every other 3rd world impoverished
country.And even more ironically -- serious believeing we will some-how
retain being a Bastion of Freedom and Hope.
The basic question is: Are unions helping or harming workers overall?Unions definitely had a place in history when workers were exploited by
industry. They helped get safe working conditions and stopped a number of unfair
labor practices. They still probably do some good things for workers.But like every big powerful organization, they have become corrupt. It seems
that their primary concern is not in the welfare of their workers, but in
gaining money and power that benefits their leadership. They don't seem
concerned if business is hurt or their members are hurt as long as the union
itself does well.Too many people look at places like Detroit and
just say, the so-called "cure" is worse than the "disease", and
like the VW plant, vote to say NO to unions.
@mountainman. What world are you living in? Workers get threaten all the time by
their employers or politicians.From Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN)."I've had conversations today and based on those am assured
that should the workers vote against the UAW, Volkswagen will announce in the
coming weeks that it will manufacture its new mid-size SUV here in
Chattanooga," said [Sen. Bob] Corker.The above statement was
refuted by VW as being 100 percent false.Public pressure also by
local politicians played a part. Local lawmakers basically stated that if the
employees voted to go union they would withhold tax incentives for VW.Those are threats. I would also love to show you a picture of a
young man who had third degree burns on his face and arms because he was exposed
to an arc flash. He wanted the proper safety equipment but his employer(non
union) said just to get it done or they will find someone else to get it done.
His job was threaten. The company blamed him in the OSHA report as being a
"rogue" employee. His word against theirs. Individual employees can not
Mountainman, You said "No one threatened the workers because
doing so is illegal". So an elected leader has never done anything illegal?
Wow you must live in a different world than the rest of us. How do you know no
one threatened the workers? Those workers needed a job to support their
families if the felt threatened that may well have impacted their vote. Have
you ever done anything you really didn't want to because it was in your
families best interest at the moment? At the very least by honest and admit the
republican leadership in the state lobbied hard against the union.The vote was about 60-40 against a union. The reality however is that
Volkswagen has offered the workers a union of sorts in the form of a work
RichardB has raised the issue of Border Control. That's a good hot button
topic. But, I would suggest that if we really want good border control, we need
to separate it from the immigration policy debate. Treat border control for what
it really is, a national security and national defense issue. Take security of
the border out of the hands of DHS and its alphabet soup of agencies responsible
for immigration and hand it over to the department of defense. Law enforcement
along the borders can be left with the Border Patrol, but actual creation of the
security infrastructure needs to be a defense responsibility.
@ Shaun. Baloney! No one threatened the workers because doing so is illegal and
if you have proof, you should call the FBI! They voted their conscious and
BTW -- We did not have illegal immigration problems in this nation
with Unions.Unions would NEVER hire illegal immigrants.Our illegal immigration problem coincidentally happened at precisely the same
time that Anti-Union laws started getting passed...
Unions created the Middle class.No Unions = No Middle class.
@mountainman. Volkswagen vote did not pass because the workers were basically
threaten with losing their jobs by the state and congress leaders. Volkswagen
was fine with going union and their plants in Germany are unionized. Union elections are losing because they get threaten buy the companies(most of
the time) and government leaders. I would bet the vote would of been different
if the republicans would of kept quiet and not try to intimidate the workers.
In Tennessee recently at a Volkswagen assembly plant, workers voted out the UAW!
They did not wish to be forced to pay dues to a corrupt union. President Obama
should order Lois Lerner to get the IRS to "investigate" the tax free
status of unions in America because of their political agendas instead of only
This article is pure sophistry. It isn't about the well-being of this
nation and its citizens. Rather, it is about covetousness, greed, and
subversion of the rule of law, to the eventual, utter destruction of this
country.No way would flooding this nation with foreign workers, both
legal and illegal, help unemployed and underemployed American workers and
otherwise benefit the country. Of course the opposite would be the case.Yet this is the falsehood the author apparently is throwing out in hope
that it will stick somewhere. "Woe unto them that call evil
good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that
put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isaiah 5:20)
If unions caused the destruction of the middle class then the middle class would
have been destroyed in the 50s and 60s and would be booming today! The simple fact of the matter is if you do nothing to protect Amercican
workers, then you will get an economy like you have today (that 1 percent love).
If you protect American workers via unions, then you get the American economy
that we had yesterday (but 99 percent wish that we had today)
The premise is that legal immigration helps USA workers. However the h1b visa
has done extensive damage to USA workers. The current proposals would add
several hundred thousand visas EVERY YEAR. Given that the visa is used 80% of
the time for off shoring and entry level jobs suggests that the visa is being
used to replace US workers. In some years in the last decade more visas were
used than jobs created in IT showing that the visa was being used to replace US
workers. Extensive research clearly shows that the visa hurts US workers. We should be very wary of claims suggesting legal immigration benefits
@Mike Richards. It is interesting you blame unions yet they have been shrinking
for thirty years. It is also interesting that the middle class has been
shrinking for the last thirty years.I really like your economy
theory about the race to the bottom, though. It would be really beneficial if
everybody was paid less. It would also be a great idea to get rid of all those
silly safety regulations because profits are more important than a human
being.I also like your view on minimum wage. If there wasn't
one their wouldn't be people who are unemployed, would no longer be
unemployed and they would be off unemployment and this country would thrive.
"Comprehensive reform means a realistic, balanced response to the presence
of millions of undocumented workers in our midst."================Anytime I see someone refer to people who are in the country illegally
as being simply "undocumented" I know they are too dishonest to place
much faith in anything else they have to say. Especially on the matter of
immigration reform.As I continued reading this letter from Mr. Rice,
the more I realized such was also the case with him.I am all for
drastic, comprehensive immigration reform. In fact, I think it is long overdue.
Primarily because our immigration policy and especially the agency in charge of
enforcing it, is woefully inadequate and/or incompetent. But, the kind of
dishonesty shown by Mr. Rice and many others in their purposeful distortion of
the current situation makes me very doubtful of their proposed solutions.
How does importing underpaid illegal aliens to perform menial jobs "free
up" those jobs so that "Americans" can move up? Since when has any
American felt an obligation to take a menial job when a better one was offered?
People are paid for the value of their work. Using "Chicago
Politics" to strong-arm a business into paying more for labor than that
labor is worth destroys business. Drive through Detroit and see for yourself.
See what happens when workers believe the false promises of over-paid union
bosses. Drive through the "garment district" of New York and see what
"union wages" did to that industry. Look no further than
your own wallet. How often do you insist that those who serve you take more
than they asked for? Union workers shop at Wal-Mart, just like anyone else.
They like oversized paychecks, but they're not willing to buy union
products. That should tell us all we need to know about unions.
@mountainman. Sam walton was importing products form china long before the anti
union mentality took over this country.It is no coincidence that as
private union membership has fallen the middle class has fallen. Most companies
today want their employees to work for peanuts and only care about enriching the
shareholders of the companies, which in my opinion is short sighted.I am confident that once all unions are gone their will not be a resurgence of
well paying jobs but a continue downward spiral.
Unions do not create jobs. Businesses do that. But unions can create better
working environment for certain vulnerable working groups (and that filters out
as a betterment to all).I see much good that unions have done. But
I am not a member of a union. My chief problem with unions is their political
side. Yes, some of that is necessary for their mission. But much does not
appear so.I think unions, corporations, and any other group should
have the same limits on them. No candidate should be able to take money from
anyone other than a living, breathing person (a natural person). If
corporations, unions, or any other organization (NRA, NARAL, doesn't
matter) they fire up the email, twitter, and postage machines and convince their
members to write the checks.
Unions do not create jobs, unions destroy them or drive the jobs overseas. Need
proof? Go to Wal-Mart and look at all the Made in China stuff you can buy for
less money! Americans vote with their wallets and Unions are losing the
I have not heard anyone demonizing legal immigration. Mixing the two is
deceptive and dishonest. The AFL-CIO is not a National labor union anymore, they
are International, and could care less who is here illegally, as long as they
join their union. “Comprehensive” immigration reform is
part of the bad faith that has surrounded immigration issues for decades. What
“comprehensive” reform means is that border control and amnesty
should be voted on together in Congress. Why? Because that would be politically
convenient for members of Congress, who like to be on both sides of issues, so
as to minimize the backlash from the voting public.