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Published: Friday, Feb. 14 2014 12:00 a.m. MST

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CB
Salt Lake City, UT

Send the illegals home, let them come back with proper papers and intent to be obedient to
the laws of the land. They need to learn English and owe their allegiance to this country
if they want the benefits of this country.
Having lived in California near the border, I know of the lawlessness of those who come here
illegally to gain the ability to work, take advantage of our systems of food stamps, medical care, take money under the table (meaning they are not paying taxes) and any other source they need to be able to benefit on American largesse.

Brer Rabbit
Spanish Fork, UT

Wages are a product of supply and demand. Presently there is a labor surplus causing stagnant wages. Millions of American jobs have been lost to automation, mechanization and manufacturing going to cheap labor countries. Millions of American jobs are also being lost to legal and illegal immigrant labor. There is nothing that can be done about jobs lost to automation, mechanization or off-shoring of jobs, but there is no reason to import more legal and illegal labor to compete with Americans and suppress wages.

Never trust a politician or newspaper that claims to support reducing unemployment and ending wage stagnation that also supports continuing the flood of foreign unskilled as well as skilled labor. They are really on the side of the wealthy elite, not the side of the American wage earner. Those that say immigrants are needed to do the dirty work are either very arrogant or the employers that claim the need for cheap labor.

If the labor surplus were reduced, wages would increase, even at these so called dirty jobs that are supposedly beneath American workers. When wages are high enough workers will take the jobs including milking cows, roofing, and making hotel beds.

intervention
slc, UT

2bits

Interesting i will have to look into that.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Basic economics lesson. Supply and demand. The greater the supply, the lower the demand. They are inverse. So when we add lots of labor, cheap illegal labor, the demand drops and the price of labor drops with it.

If the economic outlook was brighter, with less oppressive government weighing everything down, the unemployment rate would drop and the wages would go up. This is the opposite of having the government tax and regulate to death most companies, while it gives money to its chosen industries (Solyndra and such). If we could achieve a need for labor, we could afford to bring in more legal immigrants to fill that need. We would be more secure, because we would know who they are, or more importantly who they are not (terrorists).

Rewarding the free-flow of illegals suppresses the economy/jobs market, and puts the whole country at security risk. I will save my compassion for the safety of our children and country as a whole.

When we have our house in order, we have been very generous to other countries. We are losing that ability to debt, joblessness, and internal illegal activity (much of it committed by our government).

RRB
SLC, UT

Bubbles; U-6 unemployment rate is currently 13%.
June 3 2013; The Black American Leadership Conference this morning issued an open letter calling on members of Congress to oppose the current immigration proposal, arguing increased competition for low-skill jobs would hurt Americans, particularly black Americans, struggling to find work.

In 1979 testimony to Congress, Chavez complained, "... when the farm workers strike and their strike is successful, the employers go to Mexico and have unlimited, unrestricted use of illegal alien strikebreakers to break the strike.

There is no question that illegal labor hurts America's poor by driving down wages, and the middle class by costing us more in taxes. It's time we stop business and their un-American ways.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

"Compare the Obama years with the rest of the graph... there's no denying it's not good.", and you can sit around and blame Obama, or you can join reality and acknowledge that we had the second worst economic era in modern history that not only destroyed good jobs, but also cleaned out all the non productive jobs that were hanging around from the bubble and never will come back.

Then you can join the conversation about what do we do now.

Actually one of the most cogent discussions I've heard about the topic was an interview on NPR with Marco Rubio. He had the sense to stop simply ranting about Obama and actually had a very good meta perspective on how to re-build and fill the job holes left by the recession with productive value based jobs in the future.

I have no idea if I'd agree with his tactics but his strategy was spot on. Yea I know pick your jaw up off the floor. Democrats and liberals will actually listen when Republicans have something sane to say.

BTW, that's exactly why Democrats didn't listen in the health care debate.

SLars
Provo, UT

From the Salt Lake City Deseret News, August 4, 1998
"The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 was opposed by agricultural interests
because the employer sanctions against hiring illegal aliens adopted in that law
were perceived as likely to end the supply of illegal aliens and financially
ruin the producers. To ease their fears, a provision was adopted in the law that
allowed for a supply of "replenishment agricultural workers" to be
admitted if a labor shortage were found to exist. To determine whether a
shortage was arising, the Department of Labor set up a National Agricultural
Worker Survey, and a national bipartisan Commission on Agricultural
Workers was created to study the data and recommend to Congress whether to
open the door for the program.

The study was completed and reported to Congress on February 17, 1993 that there was an oversupply of farm labor. The new employers sanction measures had failed to deter the influx of illegal aliens and the surplus of labor was condemning agricultural workers to continue to toil in deteriorating wage and worksite environmental conditions.
All governmental and non- partisan reports since that time have echoed the same
conclusion."

Surplus labor depresses wages and forces citizens out of jobs.

SLars
Provo, UT

The blue-ribbon, national, non-partisan Commission on Immigration Reform, called in 1994 for "enhanced enforcement efforts targeted at farm labor and other contractors who hire unauthorized workers on behalf of agricultural growers and other businesses." According to the executive director of the California Institute for Rural Studies "In terms of constant dollars, there's been a significant decline in wages, we think by over 25 percent, over the last 20 years."(New York Times, March 31, 1997

We allowed business interests to chase Americans from the farms, so they could use cheaper labor, now they can't afford to go back. The same thing is happening to construction, hospitality and the service industry. Jobs that can't be deported, and needed by the American worker.

I can't speak for Alabama, but my cousin (retired) took his children to work in the fields in Georgia. They were fired after a few hours work and told they were over qualified.

wrz
Phoenix, AZ

@Bubble:

"'Unemployment is over 10 percent' have you ever heard the saying that if you need to lie to make your point maybe you don't have one to make?"

True. The real unemployment rate, if you consider those who've stopped looking for work because there's none to be found, is around 17 percent.

@Irony Guy:
"When Alabama drove out the migrant workers a few years ago, the crops rotted in the fields because 'real Americans' wouldn't take the harvesting jobs."

That's because 'real Americans' could collect unemployment... which is probably twice what could be made working.

@Hutterite:
"I'd bet you couldn't get a 'real american' to pick lettuce at twice the wage of those who do."

That's because the 'real American' is home drawing unemployment... did I say.

SLars
Provo, UT

Let's keep in mind that only 3% of those here illegally work in agriculture. The majoriy of workers here illegally don't want to work in agriculture. The problem is not with American workers.

If businss and the pro-illegal groups could not talk about the children or agriculture, they would never be able to convince us to accept illegal immigration and amnesty.

We need business leaders that don't need to break our laws to succed. And remember it was the American worker that built this country.

If our leaders had not used taxpayer money to fund unemployment this conversation would be much different, and American workers would have been very vocal over lack of enforcement. They bought our silence.

Alfred
Phoenix, AZ

@SLars:
"We need business leaders that don't need to break our laws to succeed."

What we need is a president who doesn't need to break our laws (immigration) to succeed. He sets the example.

"And remember it was the American worker that built this country."

Yes, together with entrepreneurship and capital formation.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

Ever predictably, the unscrupulous employers of illegal aliens are chiming in.

Despite their false insinuations, Americans are the hardest working, the most creative and the most productive in the world. But the greedy businessman's lie -- that hard work is its own reward, that a fair wage doesn't matter -- only goes so far.

Pay an American a fair and justly-earned wage. He will do the job.

@Ajax

"This job thing is a ruse and the illegality issue largely an excuse. Both are cover for deeper motives. I wonder what those might be."

Yeah, Ajax, I wonder what those might be.

Veiled accusations of Racism are among the standard lies used by employers of illegal aliens.

I wonder what their motives are?

Answer: Enhanced profit, through employment of cheap, illegal-alien labor and without regard for the well-being of society around them.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

2 bit, why do you think that Federal taxes are the only taxes we pay? Do you really think that way? Is this why you people are attempting to make 50 different nation states rather than one nation? You are missing much my friend.

Utefan60
Salt Lake City, UT

A good benefit for older Americans is that Billions is paid into Social Security through false numbers set up for illegals to work. That money is never recovered by that individual paying with that illegal information. According to statistics up to 11 billion per year is paid into Social Security that will never be recovered by those people with illegal documentation. Just a silver lining in an otherwise difficult deal.

RichardB
Murray, UT

Utefan60, the money paid into social security fraudulently, does not go to the Social security trust fund. Also people who have had their number stolen, do not get any benefit from the money paid. So there is no real benefit.

By law, the Social Security administration is suppose to warn us when someone is using our number. Like many other laws, it has not been enforced, and people are not being notified.

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