Lets hope when we stand at the judgement bar we dont have people surrounding us
clamouring for the letter of the law to be followed. Reading these
comments and knowing the faith of the majority of the people writing would be
amusing if it wasnt so tragic.
If following the law is so important, maybe the officer should have cited the
wife, who base jumped, also. To me it would make as much sense as citing the
grieving surviving husband.
patriotHow many people do you think have done base jumps for years
without incident? How many have base jumped illegally in zions national park and
have been just fine? These were experienced base jumpers, they know what is safe
and what isn't. Her chute didn't open, it is an accident.Regarding angel's landing - I was there 2 years ago. It does have a
handrail, as you mentioned, but there are several areas that all you have to do
is make 1 mistake or 1 slip and you are dead. The people who died weren't
all goofing around as you claim.Just because you don't base
jump doesn't mean nobody should be able to, that is odd reasoning.
Someone dies and someone else makes the connection that the death occurred
because a she broke the law. Does anyone understand that it happened because
the chute didn't open?Quit with the moralizing about the law.
Give these poor people some peace.
Drunk driving and this citation simply do not correlate! This man has paid many
times the price for his mistake and no court is ever going to beat his self
now we know why base jumping is illegal.
re:BrahmabullAngels Landing has a hand rail to hold on to. I climbed
it last year and if you hold on to the rail there is little danger at all in the
climb. You might get some fear of heights but that's it. Those who
'choose' to goof off up there are the ones who die. Base jumping is
simply not safe no matter how you prepare. The fall distance is too short and
combine that with unpredictable winds in a canyon you are asking for trouble.
There simply isn't any safety to fall back on and and it is a foolish and
dangerous activity just to get a 'rush'. It should be against the law
in all National Parks.
If you push the envelope of danger far enough eventually you will have something
bad happen - probably fatal as this tragedy was. There is a line that you
shouldn't cross in the out doors and I would include base jumping as across
the line. When you do something just for the 'rush' you probably ought
to rethink what you are doing because it will probably not end well. This couple
had their whole life and family in front of them and decided to jump off a cliff
and compromise that life. As sad as this is it is equally foolish. Rock climbing
is dangerous but at least there are safeties to protect you. Base jumping is
more dangerous than normal parachuting from an air plane just because of the
dangerously short distance as well as unpredictable winds etc... I think base
jumping ought to be against the law especially in National Parks. What a waste
of life. There are tons on outdoor things to do that bring excitement but are
relatively safe to do including skiing, hiking, back packing, rafting, biking,
No, the law was in place and it didn't work. We have to be able to choose.
If I don't want to wear my seatbelt, then I am knowingly taking a risk.
It's my choice.They knew the consequences. The law did not and
will not change that. They knew full well that that was a risk and were willing
to take it.
A citation was issued because the law was violated. Why is that hard to
understand? BASE jumpers are not deterred by the fear of death or fine, in
fact, many are motivated by them. Citations are not issued to deter someone
else from BASE jumping. They are issued to punish the lawbreaker.
I think the citation was appropriate, albeit optional as well described by
Twardy above. No special treatment is required based on unfortunate events, and
the citation certainly sends the message that violators are subject to a penalty
under any conditions. I also think it would be completely
appropriate for a judge to determine that losing his wife was more than enough
punishment to satisfy punitive requirements, and exacted a cruel and
irreversible justice. To think the death of his newlywed wife was not enough
punishment, not enough justice, and not enough deterrence is bitterly
cold-hearted and cruel.
After the death of his wife to fine him would be cruel and unusual punishment.
PhotoSpongeThe park has these rules to try and save lives? Funny.
Angels landing hike has had several deaths over the years, yet it is still
legal. But a few base jumpers can't base jump in the park? Get real. The
parks only care about money, so they should just start charging base jumpers to
do it, and I bet then they won't care how many die (just like angels
landing)You can't just pick and choose what dangerous
activities are allowed and what ones aren't. I believe several have died in
the narrows, and rock climbing in the park as well. All legal activities.
NedGrimleyYour comparison doesn't even make sense. A drunk
driver who killed somebody else is the drunk drivers fault. A base jumper who
suffers the ultimate loss - their own life - cannot be punished. The husband
didn't cause her to die, it was an accident. This is ridiculous.
I don't understand the need for the citation. Is it as a deterrent?
Wouldn't the death of his wife be a deterrent? and if not, then a citation
will not be. Is it a punishment? Wouldn't the death of his wife be more
than enough punishment? I do not understand the motivation or thinking behind
giving the surviving husband a $5000 fine, or 6 months in jail. It seems absurd
in the extreme.
I agree 100% that the citation had to be given. Will the Judge extend some
mercy in the sentencing? I hope so.If you break the law - expect to
pay the penalty. The penalty to this particular law was not the loss of life,
that was an unfortunate occurrence and this young man will probably think twice
before breaking the law again. It's just too sad that it takes something
like this to wake people up to the consequences of their actions.
DN Subscriber posted:If both husband and wife had OBEYED the law, both
would be alive today.=============No, she'd still be
dead. Regardless whether the place they jumped was illegal or not, her
parachute failed to open. If they had obeyed the law, the failure would simply
have happened somewhere else. I agree the citation is proper, in
order to discourage others from jumping in the park, against the park owners
wishes (perhaps to avoid expense of legal complications). If only we
could hold Obama to the same.
CS Copper needs a little explaining to. If the wife hadn't died then there
would still be a ticket issued, maybe two. It is a sad thing for sure that she
died. What is more sad is this didn't have to happen. The public knowing
tickets are issued might help deter future base jumping.
Not conflicted at all. The law was broken and the young women paid the ultimate
price. It is correct that the man should have been fined; he broke the law as
well. Extreme sports ALWAYS carry with them the possibility of death and these
sports-junkies know that going into them. That's why the park has a
restriction on them--to try and help to save lives. Very sorry for the loss of
this young woman's life.
I believe it is correct to issue the citation. Law enforcement should not pick
and choose based upon circumstances whether or not to enforce the law.It will now be up to the Judicial system to decide how "justice" is
met in this violation of law. I believe that is where circumstances need to be
taken into account.
So you break the law and it causes death and tragedy....so what? The law suddenly does not apply any more?Whether it deters future
jumpers or not is irrelevant. The law is the law. You can't selectively
pick and choose just because someone may be grieving.Hypothetical I
rob a bank with my brother. He gets killed in the ensuing car chase/gun battle.
I should not get a fine? I should not have to go to jail? I should not be
held accountable?You people really need to get a grip. If you
don't agree with the law get it changed.Selective enforcement
based on emotional events is just plain adolescent thinking.
I'm personally conflicted on this. On the one hand these two were fools for
jumping off of a cliff, it is simply a stupid "sport" and no one with
any sort of common sense would engage in it. There is also the fact that it
impacts, and even endangers, other people.But on the otherhand I am
tired of this mentality that we need to charge and prosecute everyone over every
single thing they do. There is no leeway for actual justice anymore, it is all
about getting everyone a permanent record for whatever their trangression might
be. When I was a kid if a kid did something that was against the
rules, the cops would usually just take you home and let your dad take care of
you. Of course it was understood then that your dad actually would take care of
you and my dad certainly did. But now days they've got to get you on record
and prosecuted, make sure it follows you around for the rest of your life
regardless of how minor the infraction may be.
Citing the husband was correct IMO. He also base jumped. To ignore the act is
to condone and send message that the park or authorities tacitily approve of
BASE jumping or will not enforce the law, thereby allowing other extreme sports
junkies to believe they can BASE jump with impunity.The death of the
lady is tragic, sad and mournful. Had she been injured, would she have been
charged for the cost of rescue and extrication from the site, or would the park
eat the cost? What about others who disrupt, even endanger their lives to
rescue/recover people who put themselves in harm's way for recreation?Had she been injured would she have sued the park for having an
attractive nusance?Most days we are the pigeons to life's
statues, some days we are the statue. Just sayin'.
The notion that issuing a citation (after the fact) will deter future aspiring
BASE jumpers is laughable. I'm pretty sure that if the risk of
death doesn't deter jumpers, then the risk of receiving a citation
won't do much either.Condolences to the family. What a tragedy.
There is a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
All peace officers learn that during the academy. If you think he should be
cited for this, do you also believe that every motorist who is pulled over
should get a ticket? Pretty sure you would like a warning now and then. This is not about "enforcing the laws without prejudice" it's
about the spirit of the law and humanity. Absolutely horrible choice to give him
If both husband and wife had OBEYED the law, both would be alive today.If we allow violations of the law, any law, to go unpunished then the law is
effectively worthless and toothless and such actions breed contempt for all
laws.However, in the larger picture, we are becoming a nation where
obedience to the law is no longer the expected norm, and disobedience is
accepted. (Immigration and Obamacare changes leap to mind.) Enforce the laws, all of them, even on grieving husbands, and perhaps that
will deter others from doing illegal things that have bad consequences. Or,
accept anarchy and the bad consequences from lawlessness.
My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a loved one under any circumstances,
however they knew the law and did not stop to think about what could happen or
why the law is the way it is. There is a reason why we have laws. I for one
think that they should slap a heavy fine on him due to the fact that a law was
broken and the result caused a death of a person. If that other person was a
friend, would you think that it would change things? A death is a death is a
death. We have laws and this law is a good one as was proven.To
those who disagree with that, would it be okay to drink and drive and kill your
child or spouse and not do anything? Come on people get a clue as to why we have
Most of these federal citations are nearly toothless, so I wouldn't worry
too much about the guy having to pay the fine. From experience handling
citations in national parks, it's likely to be about $500 or so. Thankfully we have officers who at least try to look at situations as Lady
Justice would - blindfolded for objectivity.
Trajic accident. I'm sorry for this young man's loss and that of her
family. The unfortunate death of his spouse just pours vinegar into
his wound of receiving a citation for illegal activity in a national park.
Although both comments to give or not to give a citation are correct in
principal, memories of the father in Utah County whose 2 year son slipped out of
his truck while he looked for a place to hunt and died comes to mind. Grief
filled the father's mind and heart but no one paid attention to what he was
going through. The judge sentenced him to jail "which was the thing to
do" and he went back to the place of his son's death and took his own
life.Clayton has paid the ultimate price already with the death of
his wife of only two weeks. Adding to it another penalty may or may not make
sense but I am glad I don't have to make the decision. Charging seems to
be the thing to do, but hopefully someone is paying attention to the mental
condition of Clayton. Hopefully there will be no unintended consequences this
Hmmm. Drunk driver crashes and kills someone. Some brainwashed officer decides
to ticket him and rub it in a little more. Hasn't he already "paid the
price"? Maybe he should just tell them to buzz off... (Still
looking for a sarcasm font)Amen, procuradorfiscal...
I think they need to enforce this to let others know they can't do this.
However, I think the judge will be very lenient and probably let him off easy.
He's already paid a very high price for his irresponsible behavior.
Look, here is a man who has suffered a great loss, his beloved wife has died and
he was unable to save her. What shall we do? Shall we grieve with him? Or
shall we add to his loss, shall we add insult to his grievous injury, and rub
salt into a festering wound? I am saddened to see what we, through our law
enforcement representatives, have chosen to do. And my friends, do not forget
that WE, THE PEOPLE have chosen to allow these law officers to represent us. It
is not some amorphous "thsm" that has done this disgraceful thing. It
is we. THEY are simply OUR representatives.
Re: "I hope they feel proud when they go home. What greater good did it
serve issuing this man a ticket?"I also hope people enforcing
the law take pride in what they do.But, if one even has to ask the
question, what greater good is served by enforcing the law without fear or
favor, there's really not much hope anyone will ever be able to explain it
Wow... way to add insult to injury. As if losing his wife wasn't enough,
some judge felt like it was necessary to rub it in a little bit more. The
consequences were already realized, why pile on the additional citation? How
They were "experienced" base jumpers. They had to have known what they
were doing was against the law.Unfortunately this husband will pay
far more than any fine that can be levied against him and will be sentenced to
a lifetime (not six months) of remembering his wife's brutal death.Let's hope the base jumping community learns something from this
otherwise her death was in vain.
I knew Amber personally. This hits home for me. The loss her husband has is more
than enough. This is just rubbing salt in the wound. I would just tell them to
I love how the decency of mankind has been completely brainwashed out of the
majority of the "peace" officers in the country. I hope they
feel proud when they go home. What greater good did it serve issuing this man a
As sad as this is, this is the right decision. Laws need to be upheld and if
not, there are still consequences, even if tragedy occurred during crime. Feel horrible for him. And hopefully this is the last time someone goes
BASE jumping there.