Published: Tuesday, Feb. 11 2014 12:00 a.m. MST
When I go to the polls and cast a vote I know, whether or not my candidate wins,
that my vote counts and will be counted. When I go to a caucus, I have no idea
for whom the delegate selected by the caucus will vote, and have no way to know
whether my concerns will be raised and discussed, and/or whether my position
will be supported. Most likely, my vote in the caucus will not support my
position and concerns -- it will not in fact count. I want my vote to COUNT.
That is why I am supporting "Count My Vote", why I will sign the
petition to get it on the ballot, and why I will vote for its passage. I want my
vote, and the votes of all people in Utah, to count. They don't with the
You may not need a big bankroll to run in the caucas system, but you need to say
the right things to the extremists who run the caucuses or your campaign is
Oh please, these arguments have been debunked time after time after time.Why should my vote go to some delegate? Let my voice be my own and not
some delegate who is being bribed.
This writer must not have attended any of the caucuses I attended. They were
nonsensical farces run by extremists who shouted anyone more moderate into
I do not understand the notion that the caucus system allows a poor person to
run for office any easier than a primary system. The way I see it, money is
the only way to be elected to public office.
With "Count My Vote", who chooses which candidates appear on the ballot?
You don't. I don't. The citizens of Utah have no input. The
"party elite" chooses who will appear on the ballot. The "party
elite" decides who is good enough to ride along with the other "good old
boys". The "party elite" decide who they have enough hooks in to
make those candidates jump when they say jump.If that's what
you want, then, by all means, support "Count My Vote". On the other
hand, if you want to elect a delegate from your precinct who actually talks to
all of the candidates and verifies that the candidate that he votes for meets
the qualifications of the precinct, then reject "Count My Vote". We live in a Democratic Republic. The caucus is part of that system.
"Count My Vote" has nothing to do with a Democratic Republic. Party
"Bigwigs" do the choosing. How is that part of a Democratic Republic?
When did a Party get power over the people? But, if that's what you want,
support "Count My Vote".
People like Furry, who say that their vote doesn't count are just funny, or
uninformed.We already have a party primary. It just happens after
convention.I don't know if they are aware of this (less than
10% of Utahns seem to be aware of this)... but we already have a party-primary
(in which every individual vote counts). It happens after Convention. IF you want your individual vote to count... VOTE IN YOUR PRIMARY (only
6% of registered voters turned out to the municipal primary election in 2013).
So obviously this isn't a big deal to 94% of Utahns.... just doing away
with the convention seems to be all they care about. I don't get it!===The ONLY difference (IF we do away with the Convention
and caucus meetings) is... everybody will be on the party-primary ballot
(instead of the top-2). That's the ONLY difference.Your
individual vote IS counted in the party-primary (but it already is... that is
the point I'm trying to get across). You will just be able to vote for
people not in the top-2. But I seriously doubt that will change the final
Before you comment, ask yourself... "Did I vote in the 2013 primary"?
Did I vote in my 2012 Primary?If you are in the 94% who
didn't... just how important do you REALLY think your individual vote
is?===The only function of the Convention is to narrow
the field to the top-2 most viable candidates (to face-off in the party
primary). Period.The function of the Caucus meeting is to get
people involved and informed, at a grass-roots level, not by national
advertisers or party officials, but by your neighbors, who are the only people
who have a right to speak at your caucus meeting.The caucus allows
you and your neighbors to pick delegates to Conventions. Where they will help
narrow the field to the top-2 who will face-off in the party primary (WHERE YOU
INDIVIDUALLY VOTE AGAIN).===You individually vote 3
times:-Your caucus meeting-Your party primary-The general
election.How many of these are you actually taking advantage of
now???If you actually vote in none of them.... How sincere are you
REALLY about having your individual vote count?
Supporters of the present caucus system need to be honest in this debate and
acknowledge the political gaming and silly neighborhood and ward stuff that goes
on, allowing very interested people to exert a very disproportionate influence
on the early candidate selection in our state politics.You might
think it's just allowing local grassroots politics to play a role, but in
reality, you have to see that it is a role way out of proportion in the entire
political system. Count Your Vote will reduce the power that I believe is out
of balance and maybe that seems worth fighting about for those accustomed to
this power and privilege. But, I support this realignment of political
influence in the state.
Homer1,I am being completely honest about the caucus and convention
system.I don't know how much "Gaming" goes on there.
I've never personally witnessed a caucus meeting that was
organized enough to be "Gamed" by any person, or any ward, or any other
boogeyman.===Re "those accustomed to this power and
privilege"...You seem to think this is a coronation of some
powerful group of people who represent your neighborhood every year at
convention. I have never seen anyone elected (or even volunteer) who was a
delegate the last time. So this conspiracy of a group of high-influence people
going to convention every year... is just bogus whooey (at least in my
neighborhood).===I'm starting to wonder if you have
ever actually been to a caucus meeting... have you??Because they are
NOTHING like you describe in your conspiracy theory.===About the Ward-conspiracy-theory...So what if people from the same
ward attend the caucus meeting... they are from the same neighborhood...
naturally they would be there.Most of the people who volunteered and
were elected to be delegates from my neighborhood were non-lds or inactive (if
Buy my vote?Sounds like the motto our delegates live by. They decide who to vote for based on the bribes they receive from special
interest groups. My voice/vote doesn't matter. I want my voice to matter.
Get rid of the ridiculous caucus.
Maverick,RE: "They decide who to vote for based on the bribes
they receive from special interest groups"...Do you have any
actual evidence or proof that is true?Or do you think just because
you say it... or heard it somewhere... it's true?===I think this bribing convention delegates is conspiracy theory hooowie...I've never been a delegate, but I know several people who have, and
I have two brothers who have and a nephew who has... and none of them have
received any bribes.Is there even proof of ONE delegate getting
bribed???And yet people like Maverick spout it like it's actual
fact (just because they say it).===Who out there
actually KNOWS of a bribe being given to a delegate?? Not your friend. Or a
friend of someone who told you he heard it happened (classic urban legend
spreading format). But it was actually YOU (not a hearsay person) who got
bribed with money at the convention or the caucus meeting.If that
person is out there... maybe I'll listen to Maverick's rantings a
little more credibility. But if not....===Last post
BTW... have a great day.
To "Furry1993" if you are so concerned about your voice being heard and
represented by the vote of the caucus representative at the convention, then why
don't you either run for caucus representative or else get to know the
people that you caucus with? Another option is to go to the caucus event for
another political party. If you don't like the Democrat canidate, maybe
you can go to the Republican caucus meeting, or the Libertarian, or the
Communist. That is the great thing about this country. You have your choice of
political parties, and you probably can find one more to your liking.
@Real Maverick said, “They decide who to vote for based on the bribes they
receive from special interest groups.”Not when I have been a
delegate – no bribes were offered or accepted.You better
choose better arguments that have some documented facts behind it to make your
case why we should scrap the caucus/convention system.
2 bits, I did vote in the last primary and I would like to to choose
from the 5-6-7 or however many choose to run. The outcome may not change, but
in 2014 this is the way we should be electing our representatives.
2 bits...I do have proof, I have actually seen the number of
"invites" delegates get by the candidates to "her" their views
while eating at a restaurant or some shindig.I have seen the items
sent to delegates to persuade them that they are the "right"
choice...So yes, Delegates are "bribed" before the
convention is held.Not saying "Count my Vote" is the best
way, but from my understanding the current caucus system Utah employs is the
only one of it's kind in the 50 states... If not Count my Vote, maybe
changes to the current system is in order.The major problem right
now is that independents is the largest group of voters. Most lean right, but
they are fed up with the State GOP and how they run things, but can not get the
current "tea party" mojo off the table.So if you are
independent and want to vote for a person that does not get one of the position
for the party, then they "Can't vote".Why is Utah GOP
so afraid of open primaries? why do they limit their caucus meetings to
"members" only? hmmm..
@Fred44,Sorry, but it will not happen for the 2014 election. If
this petition (Count My Vote) makes it to the ballot, then it will be voted upon
(approved or disapproved) on that same 2014 election ballot. The only other way
it would happen for the 2014 election is to change the State Law before the
caucuses of both parties are held this coming March. That will also not happen
since there is not even a bill before the Legislature right now (not enough time
before the caucuses are held)@Confused asked, “Why is Utah GOP
so afraid of open primaries? Why do they limit their caucus meetings to
"members" only?”Because, again by State Law, political
parties get to make the rules on how their candidates are selected to become the
party nominees for the General Election. If you are a Republican, then you get
to rightfully participate in that process (caucus-convention-Republican primary
election).I will counter with a question to you. Why would ANY
political party allow non-registered party members choose their party candidates
and eventual nominees for the General Election? That is why we have political
parties with common ideas regarding governance.
VST... to answer your question, with a question "why don't you go ask
the democrats?, they allow ANYONE to vote in their primaries".
I don't live in Utah, so I've no skin in the debate...but if Big Money
is the major concern in a conventional primary system, why not limit Big Money
itself? Curbing the effects of Big Money is healthier for democracy all around,
and not just in Utah.
@Confused,Well the Republicans do not, and that is their legal right
to exclude anyone who is NOT a registered member of their party.
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