stellar classes?Seriously, can we stop pretending?byu
and Utah both had recruiting classes in the 60-70th range. Average. With
promise maybe. But stellar? No.No, I'm not suggesting we
have to have a top 10 class to celebrate as neither Utah nor byu will never
sniff a recruiting class that high. There are 125 FBS programs.
Doesn't take a math genius to figure out how "stellar" a class in
the 60-70 range is.I'm hopeful Utah will do well. I'm
hopeful Coach Whit will be an above average coach and take this class in the
60-70 range and do great things. But a coach's ability to coach is
independent of the level of talent acquired. Yes, a coach can have a great
season with a class in the 60-70 range, but just think about the possibilities
if that same coach had talent in the top 20-30 level.lets keep
working hard in all state programs and hope we can improve recruiting up to the
30th place in the country.Go UTES
Leave it to a homer like dan sorenson to exaggerate a ute recruit in an attempt
to make the class appear to be better than it really is.I really
like this comment,"Godfrey is one of the best high school
prospects in America"Really? Then how come he is only a 3 star
and is nowhere near the ESPN top 300 list? lol
I'm not sure about utah's JC transfers (JC transfers don't show
up with star rating) but BYU's two receivers were both 4-star recruits out
of High school and were very highly recruited out of Junior College. For BYU, I
would say they are stellar players along with Fred Warner a solid 4-star.BYU's recruiting foot print was substantially expanded due to the
exposure of playing nation wide and the partnership with ESPN. This year's
success and future success is yet to be realized. BYU's class
was small this year and they pulled away some 4-star and very strong 3-star
players from utah and the main body of the pac 10.2. On balance this was a great
class for BYU. In context of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day-Saints and BYU's mission, Independence has been truly
remarkable. BYU's win loss record on the big stage has been less than hoped
for, but I foresee marked improvement in the near future. I believe the most
important element though, has been the respect and exposure of both BYU and the
Liked the personal comments from Ute coaches on the videos a whole lot better
than the Y's voice-over. Just wish our recruiting class was as good.
@Chris B.No bolstering of the PAC-12 or slamming Independence? Is
everything OK? First comment I've ever agreed with you. I hope the Utes and
BYU can make the best of what recruits they have. I agree 100%, it's what
the coaches can get these players to do.Go Cougars and Utes!
What about the Aggies, DesNews?! This is the very reason I don't read your
paper very often. There are more schools in the state than BYU and Utah. FYI.
The "star" rating system is absurd. Sure, it identifies the few
"sure bet" super talents. But after that...it is even more random than
picking college players who will make an impact in the NFL.Due to
major differences in style, competition, and school/community size There are
underappreciated talent scattered over the place. My 3A high school team lost in
the first round and had exactly one player make a D-1 roster. He washed out in
two years. Two players from that ended up starting for D-1 schools outside of
Utah after transferring from JC. All you need are the minimum speed
and strength requirements, after that any athlete can tell you the difference
between players becomes less and less tangible.
@ G-day M8Your post mentions respect and class for byu and "the
Church" yet fail to demonstrate respect for your instate rival. PAC 12 is
correct, PAC 10.2 is not.
BYU is in a bizarre world. Comparing its 2014 recruiting class with others is
impossible because in all other cases they assume a 2014 recruit will be someone
currently in high school and soon to enter the university. With BYU
they only have 10 who fit that bill. Instead, it might be better to compare
recruiting classes based upon how many NEW players will be at fall camp. For
BYU, that will be 30. Almost 1/3 of the team will be suiting up for college ball
for the first time. So if you count people like Troy Hinds, BYU actually has
more than 20 players coming in to camp who were highly recruited and had 3 or
more stars. But... can they play? We'll soon see.
@El ChapinIf you go to the top of the DN page there is a
"Sports" tab. If you hover of it there will appear a drop down box and
there you can find the USU page.
@duckhunter ya it is not like GMAN has ever over exaggerated a byu recruiting
class or its players. Wasnt it a couple years ago that Ute fans had to endure
the same thing when Heaps, Stouts, and Apo signed with byu. After all Heaps held
at least 26 Division I offers and was widely named the top quarterback prospect
nationally before joining byu's program.We all know what
happened with their careers. Like pleblian said the star system means nothing
the true evaluator of talent is how many players a school places in the NFL.It makes me laugh when a 2 star recruit commits to a byu or mid major
then he goes on another visit to a Big 5 school and decommits from byu or the
mid major and his star value jumps to a 4 star over night. Again all
the star system is good for is to sell more subscriptions to the recruiting pay
I'm not familiar with many of the players mentioned here...I do
know that the kid from Syracuse, Kavika Fonua is a diamond in the rough! I
think he has the potential to surprise and impact right out of high school.
plebian and crow,Its been proven a 5 star has a higher probability
of being drafted than a 4A 4 higher than a 3And a 3 higher than a
2Nick Saban also seems to go after a ton of 5 and 4 stars. You guys should really let him know that stars don't mean anything
and that based purely on his coaching ability he could just as easily win
national titles with the kind of athletes byu, usu, and Utah have.There really is no point in recruiting.As long as you have enough
warm bodies, coaching does the rest. A 2 star on average is just as good as a 5
star.Boy will Nick Saban feel silly when you read what you guys
@ Chris B They do recruit a lot of 4 and 5 star recruits but if you read the
studies of how many 4 and 5 stars fizzle out in college and never make it to the
NFL it is a ton. Heaps is a great example of a 5 star recruit with 26 offers who
fizzled out in college and more than likely will not make the NFL.Also of the 22 starting players for the Seattle Seahawks not one was a 4 or 5
star players they were 2 and 3 star guys. Proof is in the players in the NFL.
Crow,I've been over this simple concept so many times, its
unbelievable people have a hard time understanding. You do realize they give
out significantly more 5 stars than 4 stars and more 4 stars than 3 stars.Your "logic" of saying how many 3 stars are in the NFL compared
to 5 stars would be like me saying Stanford has more students that did NOT get
perfect SAT scores and therefore a kid with a perfect SAT score would have less
chance of making it to Stanford than a kid with an average SAT score. See how
wrong that thinking is?Any given 5 star has the highest chance of
making to the NFL.Any given 4 star has a higher chance of making it
to the NFL than a 3 star.A 3 star higher than a 2.Please
tell me you're not seriously suggesting a 2 star recruiting class on
average is just as good(or better) than a 4 star recruiting class are you?If you are, LOL!
Crow,Funny that you mention all the 4 and 5 stars who fizzle.Interesting you didn't tell us how many 2 stars DONT make to the
NFL.Only a handful of guys are awarded 5 stars. Even if only 50%
make it to the NFL, you would incorrectly conclude that 5 star rating
doesnt' mean anything because 50% "fizzed"But what that
forgets is 90% of players get a 2-3 star, and 95% of 2-3 stars DONT go to the
NFL.Its certainly NOT 50% of 2-3 stars that go to the NFL, like it
is for the 5 stars.The star ratings overall very indicative of
talent level. The proof is in the numbers. But you have to
understand them first.
correction to my post at 2:18 - they give out significantly fewer 5 stars than 4
stars and fewer 4 stars than 3. My bad.
@crow"Wasnt it a couple years ago that Ute fans had to endure
the same thing when Heaps, Stouts, and Apo signed with byu."That
was completely different because Heaps, Apo, and Stout actually were highly
rated recruits, 4 stars and 5 stars, so saying that about them was actually the
truth and not just something someone made up. sorenson is absolutely the biggest
homer in the state, nothing he says has any credibility because of it. You
realize Gurney is a utah alum don't you?But that said I agree
with some of what you said. Star ratings don't guaranty anything, I believe
it is a highly flawed system. Many of the ratings are based on what schools are
recruiting a kid. Any kid Alabama chooses to recruit probably gets an automatic
upgrade based on nothing more than Alabama is recruiting him. Now I realize
Alabama is about as good a program, with as good of talent, as any school, but
that doesn't mean every single kid they sign is as good as rated. I think
it has to be taken with a grain of salt.
Chris BI get your point, but your claim that "You do
realize they give out significantly more 5 stars than 4 stars and more 4 stars
than 3 stars."is in correct.Currently Rivals had
only 33 5 star rated recruits in their top 250 and the remaining are 4 star
recruits.I think you would find that there are probably more 3 star
recruits than 4 star recruitsI actually really like Utah's
class because it addresses the main weaknesses with people who appear to be very
good athletes. They may not rate high, but, Utah is never going to get a
cupboard full of 4 and 5 star recruits, which means they are rarely going to get
a college ready, polished athlete who is ready to step on the field and either
start or be a heavy contributor.Utah's success will be in the
raw athlete, who will develop into a contributing player. And frankly, the
coaches have shown a very good ability to do that.
@samoanyfanI'm referring to this article. Only discussion of
BYU and Utah when it can be argued that there is parity among the FBS teams in
Utah did had a top 10 recruiting class....in the pac 12!
The only good in the star system is how many of these prospectively good
athletes are called stars in their senior season.
This is all nice but who are the Aggies top five signees?
Chris B is right, although 5 stars don't always pan out, they do succeed at
a statistically higher rate than 4 star recruits... and 4 star recruits succeed
at a higher rate than 3 star recruits, etc. There are always
exceptions of course, Dennis Pitta & Eric Weddle are two exceptions. But,
they are exceptions, not the norm. The star rating system isn't
perfect, but it is pretty good.
chris b is right that higher stars increase the probability of a kid being
better but the great flaw in his argument is that utah will almost never get a 5
star athlete, they never have gotten one even once, and gets very few 4 stars.
Ditto for BYU although BYU has gotten 5 star kids and gets 4 star kids more
often than utah does, LDS affiliation will do that for you.So the
vast majority of kids both schools get are 3 star, or lower, and that is a far
more subjective class of kids than the far less abundant 5 star and 4 stars. If the vast majority of recruits are rated 2 star or 3 star then there
is a far wider spread of ability within the kids in those groups. That means one
school could sign ten 3 stars and five 2 stars while the other could sign eight
3 stars and seven 2 stars and there really is no difference in them. In fact it
wouldn't be a bit of a surprise if the school that signed less 3 stars
wound up with a better group of players in the end.
"utah will almost never get a 5 star athlete, they never have gotten one
even once, and gets very few 4 stars. Ditto for BYU although BYU has gotten 5
star kids and gets 4 star kids more often than utah does"Fact
check: last ten recruiting classes (tenure of Mendenhall/Whittingham), per
RivalsBYU-13 4 star, 0 5 starUtah- 18 4 star, 1 5 starPer ScoutBYU- 21 4 star, 1 5 starUtah- 18 4 star, 2 5 starPer 24/7 since 2011 (when they started rating)BYU- 2 4 star, 0 5
starUtah- 9 4 star, 0 5 starSo that's interesting.
@StGtoSLCI recommend you recheck your information247sports has
ratings post for over a decade. and have more 4 star recruits than what you
stated since 2011 (2 in 1 year alone)ESPN is another source that is good.
BeSmart, I recommend your recheck your own. They list composite ratings
(averages of scores acquired from the other services), and they have their own
ratings. Some of each school's recruits make a "composite" 4 star
listing for them, but what I posted as THEIR ratings is accurate.
@ StGtoSLC"The 247Composite rating is a proprietary algorithm that
compiles prospect "rankings" and "ratings" listed in the public
domain by the major media recruiting services. It converts average industry
ranks and ratings into a linear composite index. The 247Composite Rating is the
industry's most comprehensive and unbiased prospect ranking and is also
used to generate 247Sports' Team Recruiting Rankings."The 247
sports ranking is a composite. It takes rankings from other sites and make them
composites. They actually state that they use rivals and scout.com sources. They
DO NOT have their own ranking. read about it on their website.Try ESPN.
BeSmart, they do in fact use their own rating system. That's why next to
every recruit, they have two different ratings: one is their own rating, the
other is the composite. If this is incorrect, then please tell me what the other
rating on each recruit is.