Top 5 signees ready to make immediate contributions for BYU and Utah


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    Feb. 12, 2014 5:29 p.m.

    BeSmart, they do in fact use their own rating system. That's why next to every recruit, they have two different ratings: one is their own rating, the other is the composite. If this is incorrect, then please tell me what the other rating on each recruit is.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:26 p.m.

    @ StGtoSLC
    "The 247Composite rating is a proprietary algorithm that compiles prospect "rankings" and "ratings" listed in the public domain by the major media recruiting services. It converts average industry ranks and ratings into a linear composite index. The 247Composite Rating is the industry's most comprehensive and unbiased prospect ranking and is also used to generate 247Sports' Team Recruiting Rankings."
    The 247 sports ranking is a composite. It takes rankings from other sites and make them composites. They actually state that they use rivals and scout.com sources. They DO NOT have their own ranking. read about it on their website.
    Try ESPN.

    Feb. 12, 2014 1:47 p.m.

    BeSmart, I recommend your recheck your own. They list composite ratings (averages of scores acquired from the other services), and they have their own ratings. Some of each school's recruits make a "composite" 4 star listing for them, but what I posted as THEIR ratings is accurate.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Feb. 12, 2014 1:26 p.m.

    I recommend you recheck your information
    247sports has ratings post for over a decade. and have more 4 star recruits than what you stated since 2011 (2 in 1 year alone)
    ESPN is another source that is good.

    Feb. 12, 2014 12:15 p.m.

    "utah will almost never get a 5 star athlete, they never have gotten one even once, and gets very few 4 stars. Ditto for BYU although BYU has gotten 5 star kids and gets 4 star kids more often than utah does"

    Fact check: last ten recruiting classes (tenure of Mendenhall/Whittingham), per Rivals
    BYU-13 4 star, 0 5 star
    Utah- 18 4 star, 1 5 star

    Per Scout
    BYU- 21 4 star, 1 5 star
    Utah- 18 4 star, 2 5 star

    Per 24/7 since 2011 (when they started rating)
    BYU- 2 4 star, 0 5 star
    Utah- 9 4 star, 0 5 star

    So that's interesting.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:16 a.m.

    chris b is right that higher stars increase the probability of a kid being better but the great flaw in his argument is that utah will almost never get a 5 star athlete, they never have gotten one even once, and gets very few 4 stars. Ditto for BYU although BYU has gotten 5 star kids and gets 4 star kids more often than utah does, LDS affiliation will do that for you.

    So the vast majority of kids both schools get are 3 star, or lower, and that is a far more subjective class of kids than the far less abundant 5 star and 4 stars.

    If the vast majority of recruits are rated 2 star or 3 star then there is a far wider spread of ability within the kids in those groups. That means one school could sign ten 3 stars and five 2 stars while the other could sign eight 3 stars and seven 2 stars and there really is no difference in them. In fact it wouldn't be a bit of a surprise if the school that signed less 3 stars wound up with a better group of players in the end.

  • El Chango Supremo Rexburg, ID
    Feb. 11, 2014 10:57 p.m.

    Chris B is right, although 5 stars don't always pan out, they do succeed at a statistically higher rate than 4 star recruits... and 4 star recruits succeed at a higher rate than 3 star recruits, etc.

    There are always exceptions of course, Dennis Pitta & Eric Weddle are two exceptions. But, they are exceptions, not the norm.

    The star rating system isn't perfect, but it is pretty good.

  • Las Vegas Aggie Logan, Utah
    Feb. 11, 2014 10:24 p.m.

    This is all nice but who are the Aggies top five signees?

  • IdahoCoog Malad City, ID
    Feb. 11, 2014 7:10 p.m.

    The only good in the star system is how many of these prospectively good athletes are called stars in their senior season.

  • Scores Idaho Falls, ID
    Feb. 11, 2014 6:53 p.m.

    Utah did had a top 10 recruiting class....in the pac 12!

  • El Chapin South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 11, 2014 4:57 p.m.


    I'm referring to this article. Only discussion of BYU and Utah when it can be argued that there is parity among the FBS teams in the state.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Feb. 11, 2014 4:31 p.m.

    Chris B

    I get your point, but your claim that

    "You do realize they give out significantly more 5 stars than 4 stars and more 4 stars than 3 stars."

    is in correct.

    Currently Rivals had only 33 5 star rated recruits in their top 250 and the remaining are 4 star recruits.

    I think you would find that there are probably more 3 star recruits than 4 star recruits

    I actually really like Utah's class because it addresses the main weaknesses with people who appear to be very good athletes. They may not rate high, but, Utah is never going to get a cupboard full of 4 and 5 star recruits, which means they are rarely going to get a college ready, polished athlete who is ready to step on the field and either start or be a heavy contributor.

    Utah's success will be in the raw athlete, who will develop into a contributing player. And frankly, the coaches have shown a very good ability to do that.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 3:47 p.m.


    "Wasnt it a couple years ago that Ute fans had to endure the same thing when Heaps, Stouts, and Apo signed with byu."

    That was completely different because Heaps, Apo, and Stout actually were highly rated recruits, 4 stars and 5 stars, so saying that about them was actually the truth and not just something someone made up. sorenson is absolutely the biggest homer in the state, nothing he says has any credibility because of it. You realize Gurney is a utah alum don't you?

    But that said I agree with some of what you said. Star ratings don't guaranty anything, I believe it is a highly flawed system. Many of the ratings are based on what schools are recruiting a kid. Any kid Alabama chooses to recruit probably gets an automatic upgrade based on nothing more than Alabama is recruiting him. Now I realize Alabama is about as good a program, with as good of talent, as any school, but that doesn't mean every single kid they sign is as good as rated. I think it has to be taken with a grain of salt.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 3:39 p.m.

    correction to my post at 2:18 - they give out significantly fewer 5 stars than 4 stars and fewer 4 stars than 3. My bad.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 2:21 p.m.


    Funny that you mention all the 4 and 5 stars who fizzle.

    Interesting you didn't tell us how many 2 stars DONT make to the NFL.

    Only a handful of guys are awarded 5 stars. Even if only 50% make it to the NFL, you would incorrectly conclude that 5 star rating doesnt' mean anything because 50% "fizzed"

    But what that forgets is 90% of players get a 2-3 star, and 95% of 2-3 stars DONT go to the NFL.

    Its certainly NOT 50% of 2-3 stars that go to the NFL, like it is for the 5 stars.

    The star ratings overall very indicative of talent level.

    The proof is in the numbers. But you have to understand them first.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 2:18 p.m.


    I've been over this simple concept so many times, its unbelievable people have a hard time understanding. You do realize they give out significantly more 5 stars than 4 stars and more 4 stars than 3 stars.

    Your "logic" of saying how many 3 stars are in the NFL compared to 5 stars would be like me saying Stanford has more students that did NOT get perfect SAT scores and therefore a kid with a perfect SAT score would have less chance of making it to Stanford than a kid with an average SAT score. See how wrong that thinking is?

    Any given 5 star has the highest chance of making to the NFL.

    Any given 4 star has a higher chance of making it to the NFL than a 3 star.

    A 3 star higher than a 2.

    Please tell me you're not seriously suggesting a 2 star recruiting class on average is just as good(or better) than a 4 star recruiting class are you?

    If you are, LOL!

  • Crow Sandy , UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 12:50 p.m.

    @ Chris B They do recruit a lot of 4 and 5 star recruits but if you read the studies of how many 4 and 5 stars fizzle out in college and never make it to the NFL it is a ton. Heaps is a great example of a 5 star recruit with 26 offers who fizzled out in college and more than likely will not make the NFL.

    Also of the 22 starting players for the Seattle Seahawks not one was a 4 or 5 star players they were 2 and 3 star guys. Proof is in the players in the NFL.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    plebian and crow,

    Its been proven a 5 star has a higher probability of being drafted than a 4
    A 4 higher than a 3
    And a 3 higher than a 2

    Nick Saban also seems to go after a ton of 5 and 4 stars.

    You guys should really let him know that stars don't mean anything and that based purely on his coaching ability he could just as easily win national titles with the kind of athletes byu, usu, and Utah have.

    There really is no point in recruiting.

    As long as you have enough warm bodies, coaching does the rest. A 2 star on average is just as good as a 5 star.

    Boy will Nick Saban feel silly when you read what you guys think.

  • Something to think about Ogden, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 12:14 p.m.

    I'm not familiar with many of the players mentioned here...

    I do know that the kid from Syracuse, Kavika Fonua is a diamond in the rough! I think he has the potential to surprise and impact right out of high school.

  • Crow Sandy , UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 11:55 a.m.

    @duckhunter ya it is not like GMAN has ever over exaggerated a byu recruiting class or its players. Wasnt it a couple years ago that Ute fans had to endure the same thing when Heaps, Stouts, and Apo signed with byu. After all Heaps held at least 26 Division I offers and was widely named the top quarterback prospect nationally before joining byu's program.

    We all know what happened with their careers. Like pleblian said the star system means nothing the true evaluator of talent is how many players a school places in the NFL.

    It makes me laugh when a 2 star recruit commits to a byu or mid major then he goes on another visit to a Big 5 school and decommits from byu or the mid major and his star value jumps to a 4 star over night.

    Again all the star system is good for is to sell more subscriptions to the recruiting pay sites.

  • SamoanYfan WEST JORDAN, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 11:48 a.m.

    @El Chapin

    If you go to the top of the DN page there is a "Sports" tab. If you hover of it there will appear a drop down box and there you can find the USU page.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 11:41 a.m.

    BYU is in a bizarre world. Comparing its 2014 recruiting class with others is impossible because in all other cases they assume a 2014 recruit will be someone currently in high school and soon to enter the university.

    With BYU they only have 10 who fit that bill. Instead, it might be better to compare recruiting classes based upon how many NEW players will be at fall camp. For BYU, that will be 30. Almost 1/3 of the team will be suiting up for college ball for the first time. So if you count people like Troy Hinds, BYU actually has more than 20 players coming in to camp who were highly recruited and had 3 or more stars.

    But... can they play? We'll soon see.

  • Chris B. 4 Prez! Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 11:35 a.m.

    @ G-day M8

    Your post mentions respect and class for byu and "the Church" yet fail to demonstrate respect for your instate rival. PAC 12 is correct, PAC 10.2 is not.

  • pleblian salt lake city, utah
    Feb. 11, 2014 10:30 a.m.

    The "star" rating system is absurd. Sure, it identifies the few "sure bet" super talents. But after that...it is even more random than picking college players who will make an impact in the NFL.

    Due to major differences in style, competition, and school/community size There are underappreciated talent scattered over the place. My 3A high school team lost in the first round and had exactly one player make a D-1 roster. He washed out in two years. Two players from that ended up starting for D-1 schools outside of Utah after transferring from JC.

    All you need are the minimum speed and strength requirements, after that any athlete can tell you the difference between players becomes less and less tangible.

  • El Chapin South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 11, 2014 10:22 a.m.

    What about the Aggies, DesNews?! This is the very reason I don't read your paper very often. There are more schools in the state than BYU and Utah. FYI.

  • SamoanYfan WEST JORDAN, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    @Chris B.

    No bolstering of the PAC-12 or slamming Independence? Is everything OK? First comment I've ever agreed with you. I hope the Utes and BYU can make the best of what recruits they have. I agree 100%, it's what the coaches can get these players to do.

    Go Cougars and Utes!

  • AZ Ute Scottsdale, AZ
    Feb. 11, 2014 8:59 a.m.

    Liked the personal comments from Ute coaches on the videos a whole lot better than the Y's voice-over. Just wish our recruiting class was as good.

  • G-Day-M8 WVC, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 8:28 a.m.

    I'm not sure about utah's JC transfers (JC transfers don't show up with star rating) but BYU's two receivers were both 4-star recruits out of High school and were very highly recruited out of Junior College. For BYU, I would say they are stellar players along with Fred Warner a solid 4-star.

    BYU's recruiting foot print was substantially expanded due to the exposure of playing nation wide and the partnership with ESPN. This year's success and future success is yet to be realized.

    BYU's class was small this year and they pulled away some 4-star and very strong 3-star players from utah and the main body of the pac 10.2. On balance this was a great class for BYU.

    In context of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints and BYU's mission, Independence has been truly remarkable. BYU's win loss record on the big stage has been less than hoped for, but I foresee marked improvement in the near future. I believe the most important element though, has been the respect and exposure of both BYU and the Church.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Feb. 11, 2014 8:13 a.m.

    Leave it to a homer like dan sorenson to exaggerate a ute recruit in an attempt to make the class appear to be better than it really is.

    I really like this comment,

    "Godfrey is one of the best high school prospects in America"

    Really? Then how come he is only a 3 star and is nowhere near the ESPN top 300 list? lol

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2014 10:11 p.m.

    stellar classes?

    Seriously, can we stop pretending?

    byu and Utah both had recruiting classes in the 60-70th range. Average. With promise maybe. But stellar? No.

    No, I'm not suggesting we have to have a top 10 class to celebrate as neither Utah nor byu will never sniff a recruiting class that high.

    There are 125 FBS programs. Doesn't take a math genius to figure out how "stellar" a class in the 60-70 range is.

    I'm hopeful Utah will do well. I'm hopeful Coach Whit will be an above average coach and take this class in the 60-70 range and do great things. But a coach's ability to coach is independent of the level of talent acquired. Yes, a coach can have a great season with a class in the 60-70 range, but just think about the possibilities if that same coach had talent in the top 20-30 level.

    lets keep working hard in all state programs and hope we can improve recruiting up to the 30th place in the country.

    Go UTES