@The Real Maverick:"Why are businesses that blatantly hire illegals
deemed innocent?"Innocent of what? Breaking the law?Why is Barack Hussein Obama deemed innocent... of breaking the law? Which
law, you may ask? Ans: Immigration law."Boom. Our illegal
immigration problem will be solved."And, boom. Obama and his
democrat Friends would lose not only the senate but the White House as well.
Obama needs the Hispanic vote to keep the Senate and hopefully gain the House.
He needs Hispanics to continue crossing the border in hordes.This
illegal immigration thing has been an issue for elections ever since the
democrats noticed the huge Hispanic population. And they are bent on
capitalizing on it for this mid-term election and many elections in the future.
Fitness Freak,I'm not sure what polls you're looking at
but everything I hear is the opposite.In any event, the polls that
matter are elections. Candidates like George Allen, JD Hayworth who become
shrill on the issue lose elections they should win. If hardliners hadn't
nominated Sharron Angle Republicans could have ousted Harry Reid. Romney could
have won if he hadn't been pushed so far to the right on immigration.The GOP keeps strapping the hard line stance on its back like Wile E.
Coyote and wonders why it keeps losing. I wholeheartedly agree with the DN
Illegal immigration seems to open the door to the law of unintended
consequences. Illegal entry brings people into our country but not into our
society. There is a legal entrance system, Byzantine in nature and scope, but
legal none the less.Illegals tend to hang on the fringes, they do
not assimilate nor integrate very well. IMO they are economic refugees in
nature, and culturally loyal to their homeland where ever it may be. We need to
control our borders, then address the issue of millions of uninvited people at
our table.The issue needs more than 200 words or a 30 second sound
bite by a politician seeking political leverage. It may be true that
"Americans" won't do "those" jobs, for those wages. But
how about raising the wages? With illegal labor unavailable the market would
dictate the wage to get the job done. Also we would not take advantage of the
illegal laborer by paying him/her less than the job realistically would pay.I venture to add that the real unemployment rate in this country is in
the mid 'teens, and we really want to bring in more people?
Why not wait?Bush's "Comprehensive Immigration Reform"
bill failed. It was too much amnesty, too little enforcement, and it failed to
pass... and the predicted apocalypse didn't happen.I doubt
anything big will happen IF we don't pass it this time as well.It's hard to write a bill that both sides can enthusiastically support.
Because both sides want to get these swing-votes, but they also want to keep
their base happy. If the bill includes enforcement... they
alienate the potential swing-votes. If they leave enforcement out... they
alienate their base. They need BOTH to be happy. It's not easy to be
seen as standing firmly on both sides of the issue.But what
Republicans need to realize that these are hardly swing-votes at this point,
they are firmly in the Democrat pocket. Do they want to give
Democrats 11 million more votes now, and more each year with no enforcement
provisions, by giving these folks full citizenship?Unless it has
firm enforcement first and the path to citizenship dependent on that happening
first (the opposite of Reagan's comprehensive immigration reform in which
amnesty happened, but enforcement never happened).... it should fail.
Why not delay it till next cycle?Because Democrats may not control
the Senate then?===Why must it be passed NOW!?
What's the urgency?I don't know if Democrats really want
to pass it now. They just want to debate it now... because they know they win
votes mostly from the debate and making Republicans look like Hispanic haters
(which most of them aren't, but it plays well on TV and works out well for
Democrats at the ballot box).===If it was so urgent to
pass it now... you would think they would be gearing up enforcement now. But
the Obama Administration is doing the opposite (Suing States that enforce our
current laws (like Arizona).===The "Pass it now"
cry is obviously disingenuous. Democrats don't intend to enforce whatever
we pass. Just as they have no intention of enforcing our current laws.
It's just a ploy to get more votes. Period.
immigration reform is all about adding votes for the 2014 election for
democrat's. The ugly truth.
The political and emotional rhetoric surrounding many issues fails to
substantiate why a change in law benefits the average American citizen. So,
exactly what does the average American citizen get from Immigration Reform?Increased safety and security? More or better job opportunities?A
better educational system? Less competition for limited resources and
services such as health care or schooling?Higher wages?A reduce the
tax burden?A stronger economy?I get that politicians get more
voters, businesses get more labor employee options and more customers, churches
get more tithe payers, but I ask once again: What does the average American get
from Immigration Reform?
At this point, the only thing that will save the Republican Party is Love,
compassion,and an open mind, and the importance of solving problems for their
fellow Americans.After the complete disaster of the self deport
politics of Mitt Romney and the right last election, I thought the right would
have figured it out. I guess not.The Republican Party is doomed
until they govern off of principles like the Utah Compact and other good ideas
to fix our immigration policy. I doubt that will happen.
So.....after 31 comments, I see 2-3 (depending on how you interpret them)as
being "pro-amnesty" the other 28 are definitely AGAINST amnesty.Nationally, the percentages are about the same. The "wild card"
in play here is HOW BEHOLDEN will our elected representatives be to big business
lobbyists?They have very deep pockets and are spreading money
liberally to ANY Congressperson who will go along with an amnesty proposals
(sometimes disguised as a "pathway to citizenship").Do our
Congresspersons want major campaign donations or do they want votes?Its' THAT simple!
DN Subscriber is right. We learned nothing from the Amnesty program we passed
in the 80's.That program gave blanket amnesty if they would
just come forward. Many didn't even come forward when given amnesty (I
don't know why). But we gave 3 Million people amnesty in this country
thinking that would end it... but instead 6 Million more people rushed here
illegally in the next 30 years (hoping to get in on the NEXT Amnesty
program).It doesn't work. We already tried it... and it
DOESN'T WORK!===Until we decide we are going to
actually enforce our laws... Our current laws... or whatever new law we pass...
whatever law we pass makes no difference (if we won't enforce it).After Regan's amnesty (with promised future enforcement which never
happened)... we just increased the rate of illegal people coming into the United
States... is THAT what we WANT?
The whole thing sounded good to me, until they said,
"Immigration reform is a matter of compassion. It is the right thing to do
for U.S. citizens and for those law-abiding individuals who wish to be
citizens".IF they were "law-abiding individuals"... they
would not be here "illegally". Would they?That's what
I don't get. They keep saying we need a way for these law-abiding people
to become citizens. But by definition they are not law-abiding. -They
have already knowingly circumvented our significant border security. -They have knowingly broken our labor laws by working here illegally. -Many have sought out black-market criminals to help acquire fraudulent
documentation so they can work (because a valid SS# is required to be employed,
buy a home, get insurance, register for school, etc). -Every day they
live here they are breaking at least one law!Now.. if the people
lecturing us on morality can acknowledge that, maybe rationalize it, but at
least acknowledge that they CAN'T be "Law-abiding individuals"...
then I could listen to the rest of their argument.
Compassion does not involve destroying the respect for law that is the
foundation for everything else in our country.If we accept the
premise that rewarding lawbreakers with amnesty is the right course for our
country, then let's include in this "comprehensive" bill the
following:Amnesty for every current U.S. citizen who has, or will
over the next 20 years ignore income tax laws. After all, it is just for the
betterment of their family's economic conditions. So what if law abiding
citizens are hurt, "it's for The Children!" and it's hard to
deal with all those complicated forms and bureaucrats.We face two
choices- 1- Enforcement of existing laws and confirming we are indeed a
nation of laws to be obeyed by all, or2- Anarchy and chaos where
individuals or groups are free to ignore any laws they deem inconvenient or
economically disadvantageous.You can only pick one.Sadly, we learned nothing from the amnesty of the Reagan years where amnesty
was granted and nothing was done to stop the flood of illegals. All
"comprehensive" reform does is repeat the same flawed strategy again,
with pious but untrue promises that will be ignored.
Just one Giant problem. Whatever 'deal' or compromise is struck with
the Obama administration on immigration, we are making the huge assumption that
Obama will actually enforce the law that he signs. He has shown over and over
again that if he doesn't like a law, either his own or not, he will simply
not enforce it. Period. What good is agreeing to anything with this
administration if they will just pick and choose when, how, or if they will
actually enforce it.
More importantly, there must be some avenue to attain legal status for the
millions of unauthorized immigrants who reside here. There is an
avenue for the millions of unauthorized immigrants who reside here to obtain
legal status. They need to return home and apply for legal entry. This is the
same way they should have done it to begin with instead of ignoring our current
laws. And those who you claim have only broken civil laws may also
have committed felonies since it is a felony to return without authorization
after being deported. However, the stories about those who are caught and are
facing their 4th or 5th deportation don't make National News because it
would point out that the laws aren't being enforced.Any reform
that is going to take place should wait until our Gov't has proven over a
period of years that it is fully enforcing the current laws. Otherwise there is
no reason to believe that they will enforce any new ones.
Forget politics. Forget Republican/Democrat and all of that. Just answer these
questions: What happens in the long run after two, now three generations of
illegal aliens learn (and teach their children and friends) that ignoring the
laws of the USA was the best thing they ever did because it got them what they
have now? What will change in the future in terms of the way laws are
obeyed here, and by those who wish to come to the USA? Will they continue to try
the legal route? What about the illegals who DO commit felonies but
haven't been caught yet- our plan is to once again go the lazy route and
make them all citizens, because feds don't want to do their jobs. And
yet, having seen the grinding inefficiency and incompetence of the federal
government, Americans still voted to let them take over managing health care.
Optimism? Or stupidity?
Developed nations ought to be worried about continued pressure from third world
countries. In 2009 Gallup did an international poll and determined that 700
million people around the world would rather live in a developed nation.165 million chose the USA as their target nation.The pressure to move
somewhere with a higher standard of living is immense. And millions are willing
to break the law to do it.The need is for deterrence. We must enforce the
law and push back against this pressure.We do not need large numbers of
immigrants. One million Green Cards is foolishness when we have 100 million
Americans not participating in the labor market.We ought not be importing
family members of high school dropouts who will only add to our stretched social
program needs.We really must learn to enforce our current immigration
laws, or face increased pressure to admit (legally and illegally) a wave of
needy people from the third world.
Why are businesses never talked about whenever we discuss immigration reform?Why are businesses that blatantly hire illegals deemed innocent?Here's the solution to immigration: business owners who hire
illegals will lose their businesses and go to jail for a minimum of 5 years.Boom. Our illegal immigration problem will be solved.There's no need to talk about securing the border or deporting families.
Just take away the carrot and they'll go back home. Take away the jobs and
they'll self deport.
To the moderator;I reviewed your rules for comments and find
nothing offensive that violates any of your rules. The point Putin
makes is valid, if an immigrant wants to come to a certain country, they should
adopt the culture of that country, otherwise, why immigrate. If a nation is to
remain so desirable, that nation should protect the integrity of it's
culture.If reference to Sharia law is offensive, it is just an
example of how certain immigrants are not assimilating into the new culture of
their adopted country.Likewise, the reference to speaking the
language of the nation adopted. A common language is a binding force.
Yes, we need immigration reform quickly. Right after we shut the border(s) down
and seriously control the access to this nation. Then we need to eliminate all
of the social programs that keep the illegals here so that they will no longer
desire to be here. Once that is done then we can look at what needs to be
addressed regarding immigration.We cannot continue on the path we
are on regarding illegal immigration because it is costing those of US paying
for all the social programs too much. We have families too and it is taking too
much of a chunk of out of our hard earned money via taxes to pay for all this
nonsense. This administration is nothing but a spend and tax administration
looking for support from illegals, the poor, and the lazy by offering free
everything. Someone has to pay for all of it and we, the American taxpayers, are
tired and fed up with paying for all of it.
Immigration laws are the only laws that are discussed in terms of how to help
people who break them. The children are here “through no fault
of their own.” How many millions of children are living in poverty in
India, Africa, Haiti or other places “through no fault of their own”
and would be better off living in the United States? Do all children have
inherent right to live in America if they have done nothing wrong? If not, then
why should the children of illegal immigrants have such a right?Why
do the American people not have a right to the protection that immigration laws
provide people in other countries around the world?“Comprehensive” immigration reform is part of the bad faith that
has surrounded immigration issues for decades. What “comprehensive”
reform means is that border control and amnesty should be voted on together in
Congress. Why? Because that would be politically convenient for members of
Congress, who like to be on both sides of issues, so as to minimize the backlash
from the voting public.
I believe immigrants bring needed vitality to our country and I appreciate the
desire of many people around the world to come to the USA to make a better life
for them and their children.I have lived overseas and have many
friends who have begged me to help them come to America. They have applied for
visas. When they were denied, they stayed home. It is grossly unfair to them
to reward those who are here in violation of the law. If you think otherwise,
please tell me what I should tell my friends. That they should sneak into the
country and wait for the next amnesty? What about their children? Is it fair
to treat the children of those who didn't play by the rules better than the
children of those who did?
OlderGregImmigration activists fought for change to our laws in 1965.
Before that, we allowed immediate families. Now the law allows extended families
and millions of people are sponsoring their entire extended families. There is
only so many green cards to go around. If you want to stop the wait, fight for
change to the law and let's return to the immidiate family only
sponsorship. In 1986 1 million became 3 million, there is no
question that it will not be amnesty for 11.5 million but 18-30 million
receiving amnesty. Next time it will be even more. It has to stop somewhere, and
it's better to stop it now, than let it get worse. The idea is
to give amnesty to those who have not committed any crimes except coming here
illegally. However, id theft, social security fraud, perjury (i-9) and working
illegally in the country are all felonies. We are being sold a deceptive
argument for amnesty. Will they be required to reimburse those who's
identities have been stolen? Will business have to pay for the depressed wages
their illegal hiring has caused. Illegal immigration leaves a multitude of
damage and victims in it's wake.
The editorial is spot on in that there in no need to wait. It can get done now,
but for political gamesmanship. The American people want it, business wants it,
the President wants it, the Senate will take care of their side of it. The
sticking point? The Republicans in the House. Including Utah's own
delegation. So why is this newspaper so enamored with the GOP?
Remember the recent rage over the "illegal" who was granted a license to
practice law in California? That was actually the state responding to Federal
incompetence. His family came into the country when he was a
toddler. Everybody got a green card (legal presence) but him. How did that
happen? It became a problem for him-- and when he was old enough
as a high school senior, he applied for himself. And continued on with life.
That was 20ish years ago -- and his application is still "in process".
Why? The system is broken, and definitely needs to be fixed. There
is no excuse for any bureaucratic process to be so convoluted and slow..
We do not need "Immigration reform " What we need is for the laws
ALREADY on the books to be enforced, period.Failing to enforce the laws causes
the breakdown of society. Allowing low educated government dependent people into
our country only exacerbates the situation.
The solution to immigration related problems as well as terrorists related
problems is enforcement of the laws currently on the books. A power
substation was recently terrorized in California and since we don't know
who is in our great country, and who is not, how can we locate and prosecute
those responsible and how can we prevent future terrorist events?
Yes, we've already done amnesty before, and here we are again with the PC
crowd trying make everyone feel guilty for wanting people to respect the law.
What is different about it this time? How much do we hear about immigrants from
Canada spilling over the border? Why do we read so much about the southern
border being invaded? I think instead of pushing ourselves on the middle east,
we need to concentrate our assistance to helping Mexico and other countries
south of the border to take back their nations from the drug dealers, organized
crime and corrupt police. We can help them reach their potential as nations and
a people to become great countries of goodness and prosperity! Mexico can be a
place where more people want to live and visit for vacations, a place that
creates a growing economy through honesty and an economy based in capitalism,
and not law-breaking! So let's start here with respect for the law. That
includes our own President and Attorney-General. Start with securing our country
inside and out. Let's get serious about protecting the sovereignty of our
What earlier opened the way for negotiations on immigration reform was a
softening of the Republican position on legality. They conceded that they would
consider a way for qualified undocumented immigrants to attain legal status
although under no circumstances citizenship.What they assume (and
probably rightly so) is that citizenship and voting rights for the undocumented
would not be to their advantage. Rather, their solution for millions of
American residents is irrevocable taxation without representation, something you
would think ought to trouble the tea party minded.Definitely what we
don’t need is a political focus on childish in-your-face insults to the
President and the refusal of negotiations until next year after elections when
Republicans hope to be in a better position to get their way.
Amnesty for the child is amnesty for the parents, and the business owner that
employed them illegally.
Compassion? Love is sending people down the path of righteousness; rewarding
illegal/dishonest behavior is not love.America has the most liberal
immigration in the world. We give out over a million green cards each year, and
3.2 million work visas. That's more than the rest of the world combined.
With millions of Americans out of work right now, our emphasis needs to be on
them. Before 1976 we gave our half of what we give out now. This is
the greatest wave of migration our country has ever seem. And that's not
including those here illegally.
"Arresting and deporting these productive and law-abiding individuals is
neither feasible nor desirable."That is not true. If they are
given to understand that they are in fact subject the law and that if caught,
the penalty would be meaningful and they would be deported -- whereas now they
basically are promised immunity at the law, which is why they are here in such
vast numbers -- most would then self-deport. Thus it is not necessary to deport
all of them, nor need it be done overnight. And a policy of
deportation is desirable. This is a nation of laws. Immigration law means
nothing unless backed up by a willingness to deport. Where there is no law,
there is anarchy and eventually a loss of liberty and the nation itself. And it is specious to say they are "law-abiding" when by both by
definition and in practice, they are not in fact law-abiding.
"...malice toward none..."Disrespect of the sovereignty and
laws and customs of this nation is an affront to its citizens. "Immigration reform is a matter of compassion."Disrespect
for immigration law is a matter of NON-compassion toward the American victim of
After reading the previous postings and seeing the internal debate within the
GOP, two things become evident.1) Nothing is likely to be done this year
in Congress because the GOP leadership can't get a coalition within
it's ranks2) The GOP will continue to lose national elections because
their policies alienate so many within our country.
Our policy for the last twenty eight years has been amnesty. It's a failed
policy.On the other hand, the 1986 and 1996 reforms included border
security, interior enforcement, e-verify, more judges, and a visa entry-exit
system. All were passed as laws, all were ignored. It's time for
enforcement, and not just at the border. It's time to stop
supplying business with cheap labor, over 20 million under employed American
workers is a National shame, it's time to focus on them.
What about the moral hazard? I have a friend who owns a house in the area. His
wife is here on a student visa and lives with his son. However, he is not
allowed to work here despite being highly trained in his industry. So he works
in Japan and tries to come visit his family every couple of months. My wife is
an immigrant and we have numerous educated friends from here home country who
would like to emigrate, but cannot get a visa.Why would we reward
people who break the law to come here? There are millions of people waiting in
line to emigrate to the U.S. Why not reward the people who are willing to abide
by our laws, rather than those who are willing to break them.
Deportations and enforcement are what is needed now.
How about we enforce our existing border laws? How about we ask for
identification before giving free housing, food, drivers licenses, health care
and voting opportunities to ILLEGAL aliens? Enough of the PC garbage. If I
don't pay my taxes for a year, I will be thrown in jail. Yet, they can
come to this country and get spoon fed all the privileges without fear of being
thrown out.Yes, let's have immigration reform. Let's send
them all back to their country and streamline the immigration process so that
people can come here LEGALLY.
"...there is no realistic way to guarantee against all unauthorized
entry..."That's why interior enforcement is essential --
the very thing legalization would negate. After all, legalization is
nothing less than an official refusal to enforce the law. "...there must be some avenue to attain legal status..."Absolutely false. They can return with their families, or be arrested. "We should welcome them."No, we shouldn't. It
would be grossly unfair to millions who actually respect this nation's
laws."...easing and simplification of rules governing work visas
for highly skilled professionals who fill our nation's employment
needs."What this really is about is cheap foreign labor for
greedy American businessmen. America has plenty of qualified STEM's who
need the job. "...children brought illegally..."The "through no fault of their own" argument is a scam. Children are
illegally trafficked into this country and Americans are falsely guilted into
not sending them home with the parents who brought them here (notice nothing is
ever mentioned about the parents?). The result is the effective dissolution of
U.S. immigration law. This is why the pro-amnesty propaganda effort is focused
mainly on deportation and on Dreamers.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform doesn't have to be an "all or
nothing" approach. It can and should rightfully be done piecemeal, (fence
first) as we carefully consider the changes that need to made.Let's get it right this time.
Finish building the fence first and then let's talk about what to do with
those who are here illegally.Fool me once ... (Reagan era amnesty
and the promise to build a fence.) ... shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
An excellent editorial about this problem that seems to some to be complex and
difficult. Simple to me, make a path for immigration and citizenship for our
neighbors and friends from south of the border that is quick and possible,
unlike the present maze and delay-prone "policy". This change has been
needed for decades. The GOP needs to get up out of their soft seats in their
country clubs and make actual progress on immigration reform, progress that will
lead to a Utah Compact - like range of solutions well before the fall elections.
This can only be good for the country. Delay past the election will cause me
to change my voter registration, I'll no longer be able to honestly join
with Repubs. I'm for increased opportunity for our friends, Bienvenidos!