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Comments about ‘'Bizarre' British summons roundly criticized by legal experts, religious freedom advocates’

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Published: Thursday, Feb. 6 2014 7:15 p.m. MST

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FT1/SS
Virginia Beach, VA

And the drip picks up it's pace. Just finished reading the Book of Revelations a few days ago. No suprise here, the persecution is expected on the Saints in the last days. The persecution will get stronger in the coming years. Build your testimonies on concrete blocks!!

Twin Sister
LINDON, UT

Michael.jensen 369 you make excellent points and I agree with you. And, yes, everyone, it is President Monson, not Monson. Additionally, no one "forces" anyone to do anything who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One of the most basic doctrines of our religion is that of agency--the God-given right for us to choose for ourselves in all of our daily decisions. Members of our church are autonomous individuals who make conscious choices based on what we want to do with regard to payment of tithes and offerings, serving in church callings, observing the Word of Wisdom, having family home evenings, praying, scripture study, dressing modestly, temple attendance and on and on. Every choice we make in life carries with it consequences--good or bad as the case may be. No one is "forced" to pay tithing. We all have a choice; therefore, no fraud was committed and there is no case.

Tasha B
A Place, UT

BCA - Yes he is. He's not excommunicated yet (that I'm aware of) but he is definitely an ex-mormon in that he doesn't believe and doesn't largely affiliate with the church (summoning monson to court definitely doesn't count).

As it is, his case points are made heavily by taking only one possible way of describing faith beliefs, places these as certifiable facts to the LDS faith. Then takes only one perspective against these claims as certifiable facts as well. Then presents this as reality.....except that it's not. Reality is is there's multiple views and perspectives on just about every point he makes. His weakest, IMO are the ones that talk about the 6k yrs. There's no official stance about the age of mankind. People have consistently have different views about it.

This won't go well for him. Although I'm sure he'll spin it somehow to his favor.

ThinksIThink
SEATTLE, WA

Oragami:

I guess I stand corrected. Your post motivated me to research what the experts say about the Egyptian papyri and the Book of Abraham. From what I've read they say it is not a literal translation. I did find some Church information suggesting maybe it was an inspired translation. I guess I have to digest this as its not what I was taught.

Marigold
Provo, UT

President Monson will be fine. I feel sad for those who leave The Church, but can't leave The Church alone.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

Dear ThinksIThink:

Please refer to my earlier post. The Book of Abraham is NOT based on the Egyptian papyri fragments discovered some years ago. It was taken from a much larger roll of papyri that was later destroyed in the Chicago fire. This is an historic fact. the biggest mistake people make is to believe the false notion that the Book of Abraham was taken from those fragments. A lot of people have lost their testimonies over this false notion and it is based on a lie that is perpetrated by those who lie in wait to deceive. This is one of the biggest hoaxes of many that are used on anti-Mormon websites to try and draw people away from the Church. Please don't be fooled by it. The Book of Abraham is true.

seotopfuel
Agoura Hills, CA

I don't believe the court, nor the magistrates intentions are honorable. Therefore, whenever there are two gathered in the Lords Name, there he is also. However, the opposite it also true whenever there are gathered against me, there he is not. The prophet will ultimately do whatever the Lord tells him that he should do, and must sustain him, even defend him with our very own lives. This is what it means to serve God, Serve with all you have to defend the faith. Now, I know this is what is required, but the time till come soon when we will have to do just that defend. In the sacred name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

ksampow
Farr West, Utah

Red Corvette and Origami:

It is not about whether President Monson is "innocent." On a charge of teaching false doctrines, that is not germane. Courts have no right to decide what is true or false doctrine. Even in the often mentioned polygamy trials it was not doctrine, but actions, that were prosecuted. Collecting voluntary donations for a church is not within the jurisdiction of civil law.
(if you want to discuss the claim of "false doctrine" three witnesses [plus eight more actually] testified on behalf of the Book of Mormon. One of them actually had to testify in court (in the 19th century) and swore under oath that though he was no longer a supporter of the Church he could not deny the truthfulness of his testimony that the Book of Mormon was divinely revealed. )

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: 1.96 Standard Deviations; Here we go again,

President Joseph F. Smith In 1904 was questioned in the senate for Mormon senator Reed Smoot. He was questioned the three days. He admitted as a prophet, He had not received any revelations.

President Smith also admitted to the violation of federal laws in the practice of polygamy by Church leaders, years after the Manifestos on Polygamy stopped it. since he had eleven children by five wives since 1890.

Hank Pym
SLC, UT

re Vladhagen Yesterday

They'd circle the wagons and whine that *religion is under attack*

AltaHawkFan
Sandy, UT

@redcorvette - Oh ... I don't know. What did Jesus have to fear standing before the court of his time?

@Ernest T Bass - I'd always assumed that you confined your mocking hatred to sports topics. Good to know that it knows no bounds.

desert
Potsdam, 00

It doesn't look like the Great Britain is going to fullfil any prophecy of yet.

Folks can go back to bussiness as usual, the signs of persecutions are showing first symptoms, but let us not get fanatical here.

The fear mongering is just starting. I don't think we should listen.
Those who are smart enough to gain knowledge, welcome to the Last Days,
and those who want to think the fight as just started...remember peace is going to prevail and it does not cost much unless we give up.

GK Willington
Salt Lake City, UT

to Cats

Curious; What about the Gnostic texts found @ Nag Hammadi?

Jshj
Harrisville, UT

I've read several articles about this, and DN was the only to omit the actual charges, and the name of the person filing them.

Lyle
Springville, UT

I think he ought to show up! It would be a great missionary opportunity.

get her done
Bountiful, UT

Those who believe this is minor legal harassment have not read the stature that this case is based up. London has very different fraud laws. They do not protect religion as the U.S. I think this may be more than a minor problem for the church.

AJC
Eden, UT

I know President Monson's appearing in court would set an undesirable, and maybe even dangerous, legal precedent, but I keep thinking of President Hinckley's television interview with Mike Wallace. I for one would love to see President Monson or his hand-picked emissaries,like Elders Oaks and Holland, take the witness stand and having the opportunity to explain the Plan of Happiness to the British court. This entire episode reminds me of Satan's not knowing the mind of God when Satan offered Eve the forbidden fruit. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but from an LDS standpoint, looks like a win-win to me!

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

Well, I suppose if you don't believe in a particular church then either you must believe their leaders are wrong, or that they're liars. From that perspective, it sorta does look similar to fraud in some sense. That said, religions have been rather immune from these sort of charges so nothing should come of this other than a dismissal.

Happyinlife
PROVO, UT

No one is forced to pay tithing, but as stated in the scriptures, it is a commandment to do so. Attacking a religious leader for believing in the scriptures is truly bizarre!

Gwen54
San Diego, CA

I think that President Monson should go over and appear and stand up for what we believe. This is what we teach our youth in lessons every single week. What a great opportunity for him to be an incredible example of this. How wonderful would it be for him to stand up and bear a strong testimony and use his knowledge of all the issues listed in the summons to destroy their claims regarding the Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon DNA and so on? I hope he appears and is an example for every member of the church.

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