It's clear from most of these right wing posts you have no idea that
"Obamacare" is private insurance by the corporation provider of YOUR own
choosing. The ignorance is sad.
I know one guy that quit his corporate job to be self employed and another that
retired 5 years early because they can now get insurance that is not tied to
their corporate job. I think that is a good thing.Of course
corporate masters that like their employees a little more slavish and utterly
dependent probably don't like the idea.
Just for reference here's the ladder of reference;The Ladder of
Inference describes the thinking process that we go through, usually without
realizing it, to get from a fact to a decision or action. The thinking stages
can be seen as rungs on a ladder and are shown in Figure 1. Starting at the
bottom of the ladder, we have reality and facts. From there, we: Experience
these selectively based on our beliefs and prior experience. Interpret what they
mean. Apply our existing assumptions, sometimes without considering them. Draw
conclusions based on the interpreted facts and our assumptions. Develop beliefs
based on these conclusions. Take actions that seem "right" because they
are based on what we believe. This can create a vicious circle. Our beliefs have
a big effect on how we select from reality, and can lead us to ignore the true
facts altogether. Soon we are literally jumping to conclusions
SCfan;"There is no getting around that no matter how you spin it, our
current economy is not what it was during Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, ect. The
average amount of money that the average American family is making in an average
year is down by several thousand dollars."No kidding! This
recession cleaned out our economy. I strongly disagree however with why the rich
are holding onto their money. In fact they are not holding onto their money,
thus the massive gains in the stock market. What is happening is
the return on financial manipulations is much higher than the return on real
value investment. Financial manipulation doesn't require any labor at all.
It's labor free and currently very lucrative. Please explain
to me why anyone in the 1% would take their money out of the current situation
where they are making insane profits through financial manipulations and put it
in value production with all of it's risks and costs, regardless of who the
@pragmatistferlife – “Everyone knows what the report actually said.
It said the ACA will increase the number of jobs and increase economic
growth.”Exactly!And this highlights nicely the
problem many have with today’s Republican Party – they lack the
courage to own their ideas or make arguments based on the facts. For
years conservatives have been rightly saying (back when they were sane) that
employer based healthcare was a noose around the labor market. That if people
didn’t have to stay in jobs for health insurance, they would chose
different jobs (they were better suited for), or be free to take the risk of
opening a business of their own, or leave the labor market altogether (which,
all other things being equal, will raise aggregate wages).Now when a
non-partisan report comes out saying this is/will occur under the ACA, they
twist that into “it’s a job killer.” Just one more
case of Republicans attacking their most hated president in history for things
they thought up but failed to do when they were in control – too busy with
other things I guess… wars, anti-abortion laws, etc…
Soon we will not have a choice. At the rate things are going, none of us will be
able to work. It will be too costly to employ us, and we will get little or
nothing for the work we do because all the earnings will be taxed into subsidies
for those who aren't working. I just wonder who will pay for
all the subsidies when there are no workers left and we have all been forced
into being recipients of subsidies?But other than that, Obamacare
is, uh,...Still awful. I want my plan and my doctor
Mavrick,Re: "The decades of class warfare waged against the poor
and middle classes started under Reagan"...Define "Class
warfare"?It has a definition. Goggle "Class warfare".
I don't think it means what you think it means.According to
the REAL definition of "Class Warfare"... Reaganomics doesn't
fit.====You vilify Ronald Reagan, and blame him for
today. Well here's a common sense test you can take to see if he really
wanted to destroy the middle-class. 1. How were you doing under
Jimmy Carter... 2. Then how were you doing under Ronald Reagan.... It was a night-day difference for me, and I'm middle-class.When Jimmie Carter was President... Interest rates on home loans were 16%
(that's when I bought my home). The economy was in "real trouble"
(by all accounts). It's called the "Stagflation" era.
Goggle "A brief history of U.S. unemployment", reference the
"Stagflation" graph. Unemployment skyrocketed to 10%! Is that GOOD for
the poor/middle-class??Then look at what happened as soon as Reagan
took over.Then tell us he engaged in class-warfare.
PragmatistferlifeThere is no getting around that no matter how you
spin it, our current economy is not what it was during Bush, Clinton, Bush,
Reagan, ect. The average amount of money that the average American family is
making in an average year is down by several thousand dollars. And if the 1%ers
are not spending money and creating jobs, has it ever occured to you why they
are holding back from investment and holding onto money? The word Democrat, and
the name Obama come to mind as good reasons. Even the liberal rich 1%ers, of
which there are a lot, are doing it. When we get the right President, (not
Hillary) then the 1% will feel comfortable to open up and invest because
government will be seen as their ally not their enemy.
Badger.."Obama declared the recession over and the country to be in recovery
in June of 2009, yet we have more people out of the workforce than we had at the
height of the recession. "That's a very simplistic and
pejorative statement to a complicated problem. In fact workforce participation
started to decline in 2000 as the baby boomers started to retire. Then the
trend was exacerbated with the recession. Of course whether
we're in a recession or not has nothing to do with workforce participation.
It only has to do with GDP growth, and the fact is we have had nearly 4 years
of positive growth.What should worry you is the fact that the stock
market has boomed (rate of return on capital) and the rate of economic growth
has limped along, albeit positive. There in lies your answer as to why we
continue to have a decline in the labor market.There are a thousand
individual reasons why some aren't participating, early retirement, staying
in school, giving up, but the fact is the jobs aren't there for them
because the 1% can make more with financial manipulations than they can creating
value and jobs.
If you like your Obama care, you can keep it. Otherwise the rest of us should
be exempt from using it or paying for it. Simple as that!!!
How many people have been imprisoned into dead-end jobs or can't move
because of "pre-exisiting conditions"?Ya - the ACA is GOOD
for Americans and for better jobs.And keep it up Republicans, this is all your battle to keep loosing.
"Why haven't the jobs come back? Why haven't the wages come
back?"Because trickle down economic policies don't work.
We are still very much using them.The poor and middle
class don't have enough wealth to consume enough goods to force big
business to hire more. The decades of class warfare waged against
the poor and middle classes started under Reagan and have taken a toll. The
wealth inequality gap where such a small percentage owns so much of the
nation's wealth has made it darn near impossible for us to dig ourselves
out of this stagnant economy. Without government intervention and
stimulus spending, there is no way that the poor and middle classes will ever be
able to spark businesses into jumpstarting this economy.
This isn't a situation where two sides disagree on what the report says.
It's a situation where one side is describing it accurately, and the other
side is deliberately misrepresenting it, for partisan purposes.
"Now we hear, from the CBO no less, that the ACA will kill jobs"When the report was released, it was misinterpreted by the media. The next
day, Congressional Budget Office director Douglas Elmendorf clarified that the
law would reduce unemployment, not "kill jobs"."This
article makes it sound like the republicans are blowing the problems out of
proportion"Well, sure! When Republicans make a claim about a report
that is completely not true, one could say that it is "blowing it out of
Why haven't the jobs come back? Why haven't the wages come back? Obama
declared the recession over and the country to be in recovery in June of 2009,
yet we have more people out of the workforce than we had at the height of the
recession. Now we hear, from the CBO no less, that the ACA will kill
jobs, and destroy workers' incentive to work. Before the CBO said the ACA
would create jobs and save everyone money. Now they are finally telling the
truth instead of saying what Obama tells them to say.The liberal
dreamland is unraveling into a fiscal nightmare, and a human nightmare. Republicans would be foolish to smile and nod like everything is great
(like the democrats are doing). Of course republicans should point out the
fallacies of this massive mess. We need some hope and change!This
article makes it sound like the republicans are blowing the problems out of
proportion, but I think the problems are still massively understated.If you want to see real doubling down, review history when the democrats
danced on the grave of every dead soldier under the Bush administration during
the Iraq War.
@ VST, if you have been paying attention, many took part time jobs just to get
health insurance. Now they can get it on their own terms. Working is now a
choice. Oh wait, Republicans are not pro-choice. They really want the
government to make decisions for people.
Just keep it up Repubs..of course I know you will. Everyone knows what the
report actually said. It said the ACA will increase the number of jobs and
increase economic growth. It also said there are millions of Americans who work
a specific job for health care, those are the ones who will now have a choice.
It doesn't mean those people will quit working all together and be fee
loaders, It means they have the freedom to do work they want without worrying
about health care. You all are just making up the rest, as usual. Once again you are building a bubble around yourself that blocks out and
distorts reality. This time it's about the ACA and it's effects.
Your distortions don't change reality they just change your perception.
Doubling Down?Last I heard the Tea-Party had their little Government
shutdown tantrum, it didn't work, completely back-fired, and
now the GOP has been trying to save face for the next election ever since.
But...if people can now leave employment which they had because they wanted the
health coverage, the employment is still there. People can leave jobs they
didn't really need and those jobs then become available to the unemployed
who need the income. It's like job creation. If we could only put in place
a single payer health care system, people wouldn't have to make employment
decisions like this, and employers would have a huge burden removed.
How long will American taxpayers put up with all this? So many takers so few
Still? Repubs, Obamacare was so 2010. Get over it.
It's better to be a dollar below the poverty line than just above it. You
have to be well above it to be at the same point as those receiving assistance.
Healthcare also involves taking care of your health=diet,
exercise,rest,etc..Most of us need to do better at this- i doesn't cost
much. Yeah, keep clean and brush your teeth.
Republicans: It's the law of the land, improve it if you don't like
it.Also, try to justify why you believe it's ok for Americans to be
without access to healthcare. Why do so many Americans have to declare
bankruptcy due to health bills?
If you have both parents in a family working, then one of them gets a raise or
enough benefits that you don't need the second one working anymore and that
second one quits (to stay at home and raise kids or whatever)... that's a
Re: ". . . ACA will actually give more Americans freedom."Yeah, freedom from working or caring for their needs and wants. Freedom from
responsibility. Freedom from bettering oneself.Just another in a
long series of cynical liberal promises of freedom from consequences.Saddest of all -- liberals use these disingenuous, impossible promises as the
scrip in their evil vote-buying scams. They've embraced, even exalted the
discredited "free lunch" principle to the level of a sacrament in their
socialist cult.History teaches us that this can only end badly.That's probably the reason liberal educators no longer teach
Can you really call it "doubling down" when you have been doing the
exact same thing for years?Just sayin.
I love this play on words "JOB LOCK" as if you never had the freedom to
quit your job before and get your employment and health insurance from another
provider. I was taught in college that its less than smart to voluntarily leave
you current employment before securing another position barring a major conflict
of interest or problem. Incidentaly you quit your job, lose your insurance you
still have to pay for health insurance under ACA subsidies unless you go on
wellfare so now your unemployed with no income and a wellfare recipient. Wow
when I was a kid in America I could aspire to be a independant wealthy
doctor,engineer,scientist, business owner, or astronaut. I guess in new America
I can aspire to be a government dependant wellfare recipiant.
So Joe and Susan quit their jobs so they can qualify for the free government
subsidies for health care ...but Dave and Karen have to work to PAY for those
subsidies that Joe and Susan get for free. So the Democrats new model for
America is a nation of free loaders.
If by "freedom" you mean able to do stop working and live off the work
of others, then yes, the ACA will give more Americans freedom.
So the bottom line is that the ACA will actually give more Americans freedom.
And the GOP is against that?