Ouch. Welcome to irrelevancy. That took less time than I thought it would.
Recruits flipping from utah to USU is a sign of things to come.
Joe, it was one (your post insinuates there were multiple) recruit who
originally committed to Utah as a kid who was going to serve a mission. He
changed his mind, so did Utah. It's as easy as that.If you
want to stir up contention, please go somewhere other than a Utah board.
Joe,Utah's average star recruiting class of 2014: 2.63byu's: 2.68That's the first time in 5 years Utah has had
a lower class than byu, and it was by .05 Last year the difference
was .66 in favor of Utah, a difference of more than 10 times the margin that byu
fans are bragging about now.
Guess what place a dead last finish in the Pac 12 for recruiting would be in the
WAC 2.0(mwc)?#1.Which isn't surprising considering
the Pac 12 went 14-1 against the wac2.0(mwc) last year. A "small fish"
in the big 12 is still bigger than a "big fish" in the WACExcited for the future, still a believer in Whittingham.He's
taken us to the top of the nation before. He'll do it again.
@pocy"He changed his mind, so did Utah. It's as easy as
that."Well half of that is true, the other half is you spinning
Once again Duckhunter you are wrong. Utah coaches decided that the TE position
was not a priority in the class and spent less effort recruiting Tukuafu in the
end. Utah has 5 returning TE's that are lower class man 2 were redshirt
Freshman so the need for a TE in this class was not there. When I talked to one
of the coaches tonight at the LOI party he said they believe that Westlee Tonga
will get a medical redshirt this year that would give Utah 6 TE's. If Tonga
comes back they have their starter already in place with Moeai as his back up
who played significant minutes when Murphy was hurt.There is no spin
Utah went another way and good for Tukuafu he got a scholarship at a local
school and hopefully he can contribute to the Aggies.
"He's taken us to the top of the nation before. He'll do it
again."LOL, that's a good one. The battle cry from 6 years ago
'We're #2, We're #2'He better get you to the top
of the nation THIS SEASON, because it'll likely be his last shot at it.Glad to see Chrissy comparing the PAC basement Utes against BYU again.
So much for leaving the Y in the past as they move onward and upward, I think
that's still how she's describing it. Where's Urban Legend when
you need him?
Well CB only references one source calls into question the validity (education)
of his point. Check out ESPN 3-4 star guys 14-star and a transfer receiver that
was a 3 star coming out of High school with 1-1000 yard receiving season for BYU
(not calculated in average on any site). Utah per ESPN 1-4-star (Lowell
Lotulelei late qualifier) 12-3star Which class sounds better considering 4-star
players are impact players (that is the definition of 4 star)?I think the
Utes got exactly what they needed in speed and it will be fun to see.Hopefully DJ Law can qualify, but signing a double letter of intent is not a
I'm beginning to feel sorry for Whittingham. I think he knows that the
Utes will always be at the bottom of the Pac-12, and it will cost him his job.
Too bad - he was top dog in the MWC.
@Joe Schmoe "Welcome to irrelevancy"How does it feel to be 0-4
against an irrelevant program. What does that make BYU, sub-irrelevant?@Ed Grady "the Utes will always be at the bottom of the
Pac-12"And BYU will never be invited to the PAC12 or a real
conference. BYU was 0-2 against the middle to bottom of the PAC12 in 2013. @Hedgefog "Glad to see Chrissy comparing the PAC basement Utes
against BYU again"You do realize that we compare Utah to BYU to point
out your hypocrisy. BYU was owned by the Utes in 2013, so why the smack Hedgy?
DuckI stand by what I wrote. Utah wanted him, IF he was going to go
on a mission, they didn't have space for a TE not named Dalton Shultz in
this class.You can spin it however you want to, but your bitterness
toward Utah is sad. talk about LOL
Truth be told, and not that these are bad kids, but I am not impressed with the
recruits or the recruiting efforts of Whit. I have a feeling that the U's
inability to compete in the PAC 12 at a "respectable" level is beginning
to show. I think Whit is a great guy, but his ability to maintain consistency
in the offense and to create an identity may be a huge part of this problem. I
am proud to be a member of the PAC 12, even if we haven't had the best
showing as of yet. However, I do know that it is a matter of time before the U
will be respectable again. They have the resources now and the conference to be
able to bring in a big name coach. I don't get the comparisons that is
taking place here between the Y and the U. One only has to look as far as the
"w" column for true comparisons. GO UTES!!
Unless we don't have an issue with having the SEC have two (or more) teams
in the four team playoff every year, I propose we all stop giving any serious
credence to the star system for recruiting.The SEC has SEVEN of the
top 10 recruiting classes this year. Only one team from the West (USC) was in
the top 10 and they were number 10.I'm concerned that the star
rankings are unduly influenced by who is recruiting a player...if there are SEC
schools recruiting a kid, he's suddenly a 4 star when there is nothing else
to distinguish him from a 3 star recruit who may not be getting SEC interest
because he's made it known he wants to go to school close to home.The system allows SEC teams to argue to everyone (including the selection
committee) that they have the best athletes and the best teams (although they
rarely play other Big 5 teams in OOC games).Those who lend too much
credence to the star system and recruiting ranking are unwittingly perpetuating
the SEC's attempted monopoly of college football...(slight hyperbole
What happened yesterday is irrelevant but what happens on 12 days next year is.
If Coach Whit does not have the Utes above .500 and to a bowl game he'll be
on his own recruiting trip next year.
Speed, speed, and more speed! Music to my ears. Looking forward to watching
these track stars shining come September! Go Utes!
@pocyI'm sure you're right, usually teams offer
scholarships to kids, like utah did to this kid, because they don't really
want them. Interestingly utah "fans" are also claiming that the JC wr
BYU got from california, that utah also offered, really tried to sign his utah
LOI but utah wouldn't accept it so he signed the BYU one instead.I enjoy seeing utah "fans" trying so desperately to spin this stuff.
Face it, these kid didn't want to go to utah and spend the holiday's
home bowless with a losing record.
DuckI never said Utah didn't want him. I said they didn't
have room for him in this class. Had he stayed by his original plan, he would
still be in Utah's plans. You see, since he was a sign and send he
didn't count against this class anyway. But, as I said before, Utah
didn't have room for him in THIS class.That being said, it is
also not uncommon for schools to take a commitment, then re-evaluate the class,
and cut ties with the player. In terms of Devon Blackmon, it is not
true that he tried to send in a LOI, he did however want to commit to Utah, but
they didn't take him as they had a commit from Kendric Young, the coaches
opting for a freshman over a JUCO transfer.You have admitted you
only follow recruiting to about the extent of whatever the Herald reported.
There are more sites that provide much more in-depth coverage and than the
@pocyutah had several decommits in the last week or two leading up
to signing day as well as a scholarship for frison if he had somehow decided to
go to utah afterall which he did not. They had plenty of scholarships available
for both Blackmon and Tukuafu and would have taken both if they had decided to
sign. They did not want to sign with utah, just like frison did not want to sign
with utah, trying to pretend utah didn't have room for them, when they
obviously did, or didn't want them, just looks like desperate spin. It IS
desperate spin.utah "fans" have developed this fantasy that
every recruit that has the choice between these 3 schools would prefer utah and
if any of them goes to BYU or usu it is because utah "didn't want
them" or "didn't have room for them" or some other
rationalization to help protect that fantasy. Tell us again how many kids utah
wound up signing? Wasn't it less than 20? They had room for both, they
NEEDED both. Both just didn't want utah.
Again, your incorrect.Utah finished with one extra schollie, that
Whittingham said was already earmarked for someone, that has yet to be
determined.Utah definitely had some recommits that hurt. Frison was
one and so was Donovon Wilson. Just because it doesn't fit
your thought process doesn't make it wrong. You only see the end result,
and are going to spin it as negative toward Utah as you can. But that
doesn't make your correct. I'm sorry, Duck, but I am absolutely
correct on the Tukuafu and Blackmon.
Again, DuckYour numbers show your lack of understanding on the Utah
schollie situation. They have returning missionaries that are counting to this
class. Those are Vaha VainukuNua PotekiAustin
LeeLio LafaeleLowell LotuleleiPlus you have Chase
Hansen, Harvey Langi Both of them don't count toward the
initials, but they count toward the 85 schollie limit.This
doesn't include transfer Gionni Paul, who is now on scholarship after
sitting out a year from MiamiThe fact is, Duck, you really
don't know what the scholarship situation is, but you just want to put a
negative spin on Utah in any way you can.
pocy are you saying chase hansen is coming back early from his mission? He
played one year after HS and then left, this last season was the only one he has
been gone. If he completes his entire mission he won't return until after
next season. Are you just making stuff up to try and fit your narrative?
DuckChase Hansen gets back from his mission in December. I
don't know when the timing of his schollie restarting will be, but it could
be as soon as January of 2015 So no, I actually do know what
I'm talking about here, and it was a nice try to gloss over all the other
stuff to try and find a mistake that isn't there. A valiant attempt to
support your wilting argument.
@pocy"Chase Hansen gets back from his mission in December. I
don't know when the timing of his schollie restarting will be....So no, I
actually do know what I'm talking about here"Huh? You
don't know but you do know? You're trying hard but you are
floundering. Step back, take a deep breath, come back and tell us where we can
find documentation to verify your assertions. You claim it is on other sites, ok
then tell me what they are so I can go to them and read it for myself. And no
"utezone" is not credible, it is a ute apologetic site with no
Nice Try, DuckI don't know when Chase goes back on scholarship.
My guess is the coaches don't either. They have flexibility with him in
terms of when they can implement it. I put him there as a point that it is a
scholarship that has to be accounted for. The more you accuse, the
more obvious it is you are only bent on putting Utah in a bad light. The fact
is I listed a handful of players that Utah has to account for from a
scholarship situation. That includes 25 initial scholarships and 85 total
scholarships. You claimed Utah had all the space in the world for Tukuafu this
year, and I proved that was wrong. If you can't accept that, then I'm
sorry, but it is the facts.
As for the validity of other sites, I know Cougarboard and the Herald are known
as hubs for critically acclaimed information, but I'm pretty sure they
might not be a hot bed for recruiting information.
@pocyYou "proved" nothing, you just made unsubstantiated
claims and expect everyone to accept them as fact. I'm not sure why you
think the Daily Herald is some sort recruiting site I rely on, maybe because I
told eating crow the only time I've ever gone to a recruiting site is when
I followed a link published in the Herald? They have a section that has links to
recruiting sites and other publications that have articles about BYU and players
BYU is recruiting. I sometimes follow those links if the headline looks
interesting. As for Cougarboard I have never in my life been on Cougarboard and
couldn't tell you anything about it other than I know what it is. I would
never try to claim it is an unbiased authority on anything.But
I'm not the one claiming BYU didn't want players that signed with
utah, you are the one claiming the opposite and I asked you to verify it because
the claim of a utah fan in pocatello just isn't really all that credible.
If you can't do that then I'll assume it is all hot air.
DuckSo if it's published from a link to the Herald, it must be
true. Is that what you are telling me?My numbers are common sense
and reported on any number of sites. I would refer you to the Utah football
school homepage, Deseret news articles and recruiting site articles who clearly
identify sign and sends, when they are leaving and when they are coming back.
Therefore, you claim that Utah had plenty of scholarships available
to Blackmon and Tukuafu has been proved as false.In your statement
to Crow, you also said you've never paid a cent for a recruiting site,
perhaps you should, and you would learn the full story. Yes, I have found on
both Scout and Rivals that the message board content can be pretty poor. The
reports from the moderators have been accurate and substantiated. Certainly as
reliable as any reporting complements of the Herald, or links to some high
quality recruiting blogs. Talk about LOL
pocy the links from the herald are to scout and rivals so yes those are the ones
I have read. I just haven't personally signed up for them, paid for them,
or even gone to one of them on my o, only when I followed a link. the herald
puts links to those sites every single day in one of its columns. You are coming
off as sounding desperate. You still have not referred me to one single article
or site that can verify that utah did not want, or did not have scholarships
available, for two players that they offered scholarships to. Now
excuse my skepticism of your assertions but generally schools don't offer
scholarships to kids if they don't want them and that is usually the sort
of thing you hear from fans who are desperately trying to save face. Once again please refer me to one, JUST ONE, reputable site that can verify
your claims about those two athletes. You say it is all over the place so surely
you can name just one of them?
DuckYou are confusing the 2 issues at hand. I have pointed out
multiple sites completely debunking your assertion that Utah had multiple
schollies available for Blackmon and Tukuafu. So please, keep that straight.If you have followed recruiting, you would know that both teams and
players cut ties for various reasons. And it makes sense. No team right now
knows what it's needs are going to be next February, but yet they are
already making offers for 2015 and 2016. Utah's need for a TE was limited
to a sign and send or a complete stud. They only offered 7 total TEs. Compare
that with WR 33, or 24 CB and 21 safeties. Where do you think Utah's focus
was this class? My source for my information is Rivals premium.
You say you read Rivals, so I assume that you deem them reputable. Even if you
don't, I don't really care. There is a reason why Rivals has the most
subscriptions of any recruiting site.
@pocyWhat you read on rivals was written by a utah homer, that is
why utah "fans" like rivals so much. Rivals is actually the least
reputable recruiting site, except in the minds of utah "fans", because
they don't do much in the way of evaluation on their own. They base their
stuff on who offered a kid and info they get from coaches who obviously have a
bias. In fact rivals is rife with utah alums and utah homers so I have no doubt
you read them d believe them, what they say fits your biased view of things.The only thing we both know for sure is that utah offered both of those
kids and the kids signed elsewhere. If utah truly didn't want them and told
them to forget it then utah wouldn't have said a thing about it. Don't
you find it the least bit curious that it was only the kids that signed at USU
and BYU instead of utah that these sorts of rumors have come out about? Surely
we would have heard the same about some other kids utah dropped that signed with
other schools wouldn't we have?
Oh and pocy I didn't say that I read rivals, I said I have read some of
their stuff. Like I said before they are the least reputable in my opinion,
especially as it concerns utah. Isn't utezone part of the rivals network
and dan sorenson one of rivals main guys? Doesn't sound particularly fair
and unbiased to me.
DuckFirst point:You stated that Utah had plenty of
scholarships available for Blackmon and Tukuafu. I gave you multiple sources
that you statement was incorrect.I don't know how you can
continue to argue this point.
Duck2nd point. I didn't insinuate that you only read Rivals.
The fact that you sometimes read them means that yes you read them.I
do, however, find it interesting that you, who has admittedly said he has never
paid a cent for a recruiting site would then be in a position to determine which
site is reputable or not.
@pocyYou haven't given me any sources stating utah lacked
scholarships, not one. As for rivals, well I know enough to know that one of the
principals on the site is a utah homer, that they consistently rank utah commits
higher than any other recruiting site, that they don't do personal
evaluations of players but instead base them on what schools are recruiting a
player and what some coaches tell them. That your "source" for saying it
is utah homer, who runs a site affiliated with rivals called "utezone",
and who constantly makes ridiculous claims about the quality of the utah program
and its players and who it appears will say absolutely anything to spin losing a
recruit to BYU or usu. I don't need any more than that but I'll give
him credit for taking money from utah fans like yourself that are apparently
willing to pay him to make stuff up to make you feel good.
DuckWhittingham himself said in this article that they had 1
schollie. I gave you plenty of sources as to why they had less than the
allotted 25 signees.What more of a source do you want?
You are actually incorrect as to how rivals rates people.All the
recruits are evaluated by the national guys. Local guys have input, but the
national guys have the final call. As to your point that they
should be rated according to the schools that offer, then Andre Godfrey is one
of the top safeties in the nation.And how would you explain Tavaris
Williams a 2 star recruit who was offered by Georgia and Oregon. Bias doesn't make someone incorrect.
DuckI'm assuming from your statement that you feel that Rivals
is an outlier in theirratings.Let's look at the numbers.Class Rankings for Utah:2014: Scout: 62--avg stars
2.65Rivals: 75--avg stars 2.71ESPN: 642013: Scout:
54-- avg stars 2.58Rivals: 44--avg stars 2.96Espn: 482012: Scout 33--Avg stars 2.69Rivals: 28--Avg 3.04 ESPN not
available2011Scout: 39--avg stars 2.95Rivals: 37--avg
stars 2.90As you can see, overall rankings are pretty close, and in
terms of 2012, and 2013, I think you could say rivals was more correct as Scout
2 stars Sese Ianu and Corporan (3 from Rivals) contributed right away.OR by your criteria: Salesi Uhatafe Scout 2 star rivals 3, had offers from
Texas Tech and ASUOr Junior Salt rivals 4 and scout 3: with offers
from AZ, ASU, Cal, Florida, K state, Oregon st.
Pocy I did not say that players SHOULD be rated based on who recruits them, I
said that is rivals main criteria for how they rate, and it is. That is one
reason why they are the least reputable in my opinion. And yes they over rate
utah recruits constantly, rating them higher than any other site on average. As for the number of scholarships utah had, well of course they are
going to make that claim when they lose kids. Coaches say just about naything to
rationalize the why's of losing a recruit and to appease fans.What they don't tell you is who they signed instead after a kid rejected
them. They try to claim they didn't really want the kid that rejected them
and wanted the one that chose them more instead. I'm not buying it in
either of these cases, utah was on these two kids right up until the end, they
just decided they didn't want utah. Well plenty of other kids decided they
didn't want utah either but the ones that went to usu and BYU are the ones
they wanted to try to save face over.
Also if you look at those ratings you supplied you will see rivals has the
actual star ratings of the players quite a bit higher than scout slmost every
year, some of them substantially higher, like a half a star. Even the one year
scout has a higher individual rating for utah's players rivals still had
their class ranked higher. I'm not buying it, they are cooking the numbers
and quite honestly I think the records utah is posting prove it. You've
listed 4 years worth of signing classes which means some of those kids (JC
ones)have gone all the way through the program already while the ones from their
two top rated classes will be jr's and sr's, yet utah has posted
losing seasons in the pac12 every year and overall the last two years. Surely
they would have done better with recruits of that caliber if they really were
that caliber? And no one is really expecting them to do much better next season
despite thoe highest rated classes being jr's and sr's next season.
DuckCommits are lined up well in advance. There were 2 commits for
Utah that were day of decisions. 1 was DJ Law who committed to Utah, at the
other was Frison who de-committed from Utah, but kept his options open, and took
an unofficial visit to Utah the weekend before signing day. There are your
schollies they weren't there.As for your claim about
Rivals' ranking systemPlease show me documentation supporting
your claim. You are the one who wants written proof of my statements, so I am
asking the same from you.The example of Tavaris Williams would also
then be contrary to your claim. How is it that a recruit who received offers
from 2 perennial top 10 programs would only stay a 2 star. You can't have
it both ways.
DuckUtah had about 175 offers out. 24 committed. I have offered
you the back story on 2 commits. The absolute vast majority chose somewhere
else despite the fact that Utah really wanted them, that includes the 5 other
BYU commits. It isn't a bias issue, or spin issue Duck.
Sometimes it really is the real story. Some people are biased for Utah some
against, and it will skew the perception accordingly.
@pocyThe article in the tribune over the weeked about utah signing
all 4 of the players that are leaving on missions completely blows your false
assertions out of the water. It also states utah still has one more shcolarship
available that that could use to sign another player if they want. In otherwords
you were completely wrong, completely false, and you kept being wrong and false
for who knows how many posts. It states right in the article that
utah still had 5 scholarships available after signing day and since they had no
one to fill them they went ahead and signed the 4 missionaries anyway and still
have another shcolarship "left over" on top of those 4. lol