Comments about ‘Letter: Unsustainable business’

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Published: Thursday, Feb. 6 2014 12:00 a.m. MST

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Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

As long as the living tell us that they will not be inconvenienced by having to share the bounties and blessings of this world with others, their message will amount to nothing but selfishness. Our Creator told us that there is enough, and to spare, but they know more than our Creator, or at least they think they do.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"The business model requiring continued population growth is fatally flawed."

Actually, as a "business model" it is probably spot on. However, logic and common sense
should tell us that an ever increasing population will ultimately stretch our resources to the breaking point. With clean water being the future bottleneck.

The point will fall on deaf ears, especially when religion comes into play.

SEY
Sandy, UT

Malthusians will always be among us, as evidenced by this letter. They, like communists and other central planners, believe that we should turn all economic decisions over to a few elite and oh-so-wise intellectuals who know better than the rest of us how our time, effort and money should be spent in order to "save the planet" as well as save us from ourselves. And they've been wrong every time they predict that the sky is falling.

Sal
Provo, UT

Right Joe Blow: let's not have any diversity of opinions by including religious ones.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

"And they've been wrong every time they predict that the sky is falling."

Unless you come to Salt Lake in the winter, and then the sky is literally falling. In fact you can taste it.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"Right Joe Blow: let's not have any diversity of opinions by including religious ones."

Religion tells you that God will provide and that we have enough resources to support whatever population we can produce.

OK,

Now, what does common sense tell you? Not even talking about science. Just good old common sense.

I am OK with a diversity of opinion. But, not the opinion of a small group of people whose best justification was "cause God told me"

Thinkin\' Man
Rexburg, ID

Yes, building wealth is indeed a necessary and morally worthwhile goal. We don't live in a utopian fantasy world, we live in the real world where people have to make a living and a prosperous economy is essential. A wealthier society is a cleaner society, per capita. Look at the improvements in air and water quality in the U.S. over the past 50 years! They are a direct result of prosperity and technological innovation. Poor countries (and companies and people) cannot afford pollution control measures. Kill prosperity, and you kill the environment.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Richard,
You complained, but what SOLUTION do you propose to control population growth?

One child limit (like China)? Forced sterilization? Mass executions? What is your proposed solution? The ones fascists and central-government extremists have employed in the past have been very unsavory.

And what does this have to do with moving the prison?

Do you think keeping the prison where it is will limit population growth? I don't.

===

IMO the problem is not the population itself. It's the location of the population (when it gets crowded into one area that can't sustain that size population, like LA, NYC, Chicago, etc, even SLC). When these big cities don't have enough resources to sustain their population... they take resources (re-channel water, fuel, air, etc) from the surrounding areas, even the surrounding States.

Maybe we should spread out a bit. Leave the cities and make other parts of the country bloom (instead of sucking their resources dry to serve the people in the megatropolises).

If more Americans lived like rural mid-America (instead of living on top of each other like the megatropolises on the coasts)... it would be more sustainable.

Curmudgeon
Salt Lake City, UT

Mike R, I appreciate your reference to LDS scripture that there is enough and to spare. I wish you had included the rest of the passage:

"Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment." (D&C 104:18)

So there is enough and to spare only if the wealthy share with the poor and needy, which the growing income gap between rich and poor suggests is not happening.

FT
salt lake city, UT

When it comes to sustainability I'll trust a scientist more than religon. The evidence is all around us. What has always happened to a species when it overextends the carrying capacity of it's environment? To continue to exploit our resources, with no regards to science, just because a religon tells us God wants us to is foolish! That makes about as much sense as the Mayans performing human sacrifices for centuries just because their religous leaders told them it keeps God satisfied.

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

Excellent letter. The endless growth model based on turning earth's limited resources into waste is certainly unsustainable. But the bigger question is this: Which wall will we hit first — the resource/global warming wall or the internal wall built by a system of funneling most of the wealth to the top, thus creating increasingly stressed middle and lower classes, consequently putting too much burden on government to make up the difference and resulting in eventually overwhelming levels of debt? It might be a neck-and-neck race right to the finish line, but do we really have to hold this race at all?

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

When our conservative friends come up with a way to create more water, please let us know. In the meantime, we really ought to think twice about twice the population in this thirsty little valley.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@SEY – “And they've been wrong every time they predict that the sky is falling.”

So let me make sure I understand – Malthus makes a prediction that, so far, has not come to pass so his ideas have no merit whatsoever (even though many economists think he just did not adequately account for technology)?

Can we assume you apply this some logic in all areas of your life… like religion? If so then please google “religious predictions that have not come true” and then explain why you (or any logical person) would take any of it seriously.

And just so we’re clear – I’m not saying you’re wrong… just following the implications of your logic.

@JoeBlow

Spot on as usual…

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Richard, you sound dangerously like the new Pope. And he's been branded a socialist.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Again DeForrest, if the "growth model" is unsustainable... what alternative model do YOU propose?

Any model requires growth. A stagnant system is not a healthy system. And when it gets sick... it eventually crashes. Is THAT what you want??

===

Without growth (growth in population, growth in the economy) the system regardless of it's politics will collapse. What model are you talking about that doesn't use the Earth's limited resources?

We can use them slower. But all systems use them.

===

Get on the Space Station, or watch some video from orbit, you usually you can't even see any signs of human infestation.

There is plenty of space on this earth for humans to live. And plenty of resources if we use them wisely and develop new more advanced alternatives as technology advances. We no longer use whale blubber... we don't use coal in our homes like we use to... right? We change and adapt (switching to cleaner options).

I've heard the overpopulation scare tactics since I was a child in the 60's... and all the things they predicted back then never happened. And they hadn't even thought of Global Warming yet!

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Curmudgeon
Salt Lake City, UT
Mike R, I appreciate your reference to LDS scripture that there is enough and to spare. I wish you had included the rest of the passage:

"Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment." (D&C 104:18)

=========

My seniments exactly --
Guys like this like to take scriptures completely out of context simply to fit their agenda.

The blessing of "enough and to spare" only applies IF we are good stewards, use our resourse wisely, do the very best that we can with what we have, not be selfish and greedy, share and share alike, --- otherwise, it will be our own cursing -- just as the Lord promised in the very next line of scripture!

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Irony Guy,
Again... what solution do you propose?

Just complaining doesn't help. What's your solution?

I see no reason why all the growth needs to be in this tiny valley. Why can't it be in other parts of the State that are less overpopulated?

===

Have you talked to Mayor Becker about your solution?

The last two DEMOCRAT Mayors we have had in SLC have both proposed more low-income high-density housing developments for SLC. Does high-density housing make the problem of more people living in one area than it can sustain WORSE? Or BETTER?

I think it makes it worse. Have you said anything to the Mayor or his people planning a more sustainable future for SLC?

Maybe we need to encourage people and businesses to move to other areas... instead of trying to attract them to move to Utah (mostly SLC is the problem). There are plenty of areas in Utah that could sustain more growth. SLC is the main problem (in our area).

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

Curmudgeon makes a good point that a good editor can prove anything.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

"Get on the Space Station, or watch some video from orbit, you usually you can't even see any signs of human infestation"...Actually, you can. The smoke and declining amazon forests are visible, as is the smoke from their burning. As is the bathtub ring around lake mead. Intensive agriculture is clearly visible. I imagine our inversion is clearly visible from space, as is pollution downstream from most large urban areas. As for there being enough space and resources for us...space maybe. Resources, no. And any premise that touts there being enough if we would only share is nothing short of socialism on these pages. Wealth Redistribution of the worst kind. We will never let that happen. The problem is not just that populations are increasing, and they are, but that billions already here are gaining spending and consumer power. We're not adding people, we're adding consumers. A billion cars in China and India are pulling up to the same gas pump you are. Guess what's going to happen to supply, and price?

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Repubs pleading for diversity of opinion? Huh? This coming from the same group who shut down SB 100 behind closed doors? I thought repubs hated closed door meetings where the other political party isn't even allowed to come in? Apparently not!

I would love to see more diversity of opinion. But the folks claiming that religion is being quieted are the first to quiet other points of view with their religion.

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