Published: Thursday, Feb. 6 2014 6:00 a.m. MST
I'm not concerned with what people "think". We've hammered in
against Al Qaida on a level they still struggle to make up for, and more
importantly, the people in Iraq can vote. The people in Iraq are free to speak,
dress, worship, learn, and own their own property. No matter how much anyone
may disagree with us having gone over, we've done an immeasurable service
to those people.It's a shame so much propaganda gets thrown out
against it; you almost have to speak with someone who actually fought there, or
visit yourself and speak with the people to truly understand.
Not that I am especially smart, but I could have told Bush and others in his
administration years ago that a country like the U.S. could never go to a Muslim
country and change their culture. The Islamic religion is always entrenched in
the body politic of such countries. To do so is like some foreign country
coming to America and attempting to get Americans to change their Christian
beliefs. Only worse in the case if Islam. And the U.S. is seen as the Great
Satin to many in the Middle East anyway, so it is especially futile for the U.S.
to have any lasting influence over there other than to help create more people
who hate us. Nation building in the Middle East, stupid, stupid idea that will
never work. At best we replace one dictator who turned on us with another who
will turn on us, or be taken out by his own people.
And I am one of those Americans who see a failure in Iraq and Afghanistan.We need to be much less willing as a country to get into military
conflict around the world.I am not saying never, but extremely
selectively, with the minimal amount of troops and money.The idea
that we need militarily spread democracy around the world is crazy. Supporting
democracy is one thing. Engaging militarily in long term occupations is
completely different.The amount of money we borrowed (and continue
to borrow) from China to support wars of choice should make any true
conservative cringe.Iraq and Afghanistan are perfect examples of
military conflict that should have never happened.
As usual look no further than the present occupant of the White House.
I've been saying this for 13 years!BTW -- The only way
one can consider any of this a success is if you completely ignore the
loss of 5,000 Americans, 75,000 wounded, and $3 Trillion, so
gasoline could stay under $5 a gallon.
9/11 demanded a serious response. The Middle East is an extremely difficult area
to deal with, because of the convoluted politics there. Islamic terrorists are
still a problem, for the peoples of that region as well as the rest of the
world. We need to do better; i.e. smarter than we have done. By itself, military
action is insufficient; civil action helps; but,why not track the money trail
and take action? Without funding, terrorism would shrink.
Well it shows how much very few Americans understand what is happening in the
world. If you go back in history the US funded most of the terrorists groups we
are now fighting. Back in the 1980's we wanted to make Afghanistan bloody
the USSR and turn it into what Vietnam was for us. It worked. We trained,
supplied and even gave propaganda material about invaders.Yep, that
is what we are experiencing. Had Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Bush Sr, Clinton,
Bush Jr, Obama realized when Osama declared Jihad on the US, Israel and other
"infidels" we should have been working on this situation differently
from the beginning. Instead Clinton was screwing any woman that liked him and
was more worried about that than killing Osama or boosting our image in those
countries that we had abandoned.Either way, we're abandoning
them again. The problem is still there and like our national debt, our children
and grandchildren get to inherit a bigger mess. But, hey we gave them
"medical pot" to ease that pain!
For the same $3 Trillion we lost in the Middle East, The Government could
have put Solar Panels on each and every house in America, ANDbought
everyone and an electric vechile.Think about it...
@mohokat"As usual look no further than the present occupant of
the White House."While I was in Iraq in 2004/2005 (funny I
didn't see you there), I saw failure. That was long before the
"present occupant of the of the White House." We were fed a
line of lies and deception to take out an evil dictator who was bend on US
destruction and had links to the 9/11 attacks. Hmmm. I saw friends killed and
maimed for no real reason. All of us questioned why we were even there. Again,
long before President Obama.
The majority of Americans are, more often than not, correct.
WE haven't read any of the history of Afghanistan. Iraq has a similar
history but not quite so brutal. They are ruled by tribes. The last person to
beat Afghanistan was Gengus Kahn in the 1200's. He destroyed a city then
killed every man, woman, child and animal left. Then he moved on to the next
city and repeated the same procedure. Ask Alexander the great, the British and
Russians. They all lost and so are we losing. The last war that we won was WW
II for one simple reason. We put a muzzle on the media and inflicted massive
collateral damage. That includes England's 1000 airplane raids on Germany,
our firebombing Tokyo and finally atomic bombing two Japanese cities. The
Muslums don't mind inflicting massive collateral damage on us so we had
better get smart before we die.
The US has liberated people of other nations from murdering tyrannical dictators
all over the world for decades, then left and allowed the liberated people to
govern themselves; Japan, most of Europe (twice in one century) the Philippines,
S. Korea, among others. More recently Iraq and Afghanistan. What each country
does with the liberation is up to them, not us! What ever you think about the
futility of doing that, try to imagine a world where we didn't intervene!
@CHS 85Thanks for your service. I was in during Nam but was in
Europe. I checked with several of my buddies who were in Nam and guess what?
They don't remember seeing you there.
mohokatOgden, UTAs usual look no further than the present occupant
of the White House.8:07 a.m. Feb. 6, 2014======== That "present occupant of the White House" mopped up and closed
that entire chapter in U.S. history during Operation Neptune Spear for the price
of an accidental loss of a U.S. helicopter and 15 minutes of a Navy Seal Team 6
with NO U.S. causalties.(1) H-60 Blackhawk = $5.9 Million(12)
Navy Seals @ $25/hour = $75Everything else has been Bush/Cheney.FYI -- Mission Accomplished [May 02, 2011 in Abbottabad, PAKISTAN]
@mohokat"I checked with several of my buddies who were in Nam
and guess what? They don't remember seeing you there."Well,
since I was born the year combat operations started in Vietnam, it wasn't
feasible.My point was that the people who were/are all about
"supporting the troops" are good at waving flags, but really bad at
picking up a rifle and doing their part. If most of the flag-wavers saw what I
saw, they'd think twice before rushing the country into war. You want to
actually support he troops? Don't send them to fight in meaningless
conflicts. The last time I checked (and I've been retired now for six
years), is that it is the Department of Defense, not the Department of Nation
Whether the Afghanistan War is a success or failure is a matter of
perspective.Certainly to the American taxpayer who is now expected
to pay the financial costs of the war; And the men and women in the US military
and innocent Afghan civilians, and their families, who paid the greatest costs,
the war is likely viewed as a failure.On the other Hand, Before the
war opium production in Afghanistan was almost entirely eliminated under Taliban
rule. Now Afghanistan produces almost 75% of the world's heroin supply,
thanks in part to US troops ordered to protect the fields. I guess "The War
on Terror" supercedes "The War on Drugs".So who are some
of the winners in Afghanistan. Military Industrial Corporations and contractors
such as Halliburton and Blackwater that have seen record profits. Drug Lords
and the Western Banks that launder their money have seen good times. The CIA,
for which heroin has been a cash crop for years are probably not complaining.The Chinese are doing very well buying up resources in Afghanistan
having established lithium mining operations there.failure or
success? It's all a matter of perspective.
I'm disappointed more people didn't see this outcome before we
ventured down this road. Iraq was a factious dystopia of religious groups that
hate one another held together by a strongman, and we took the strongman away.
And look at the history of Afghanistan. The british experience. The russian
experience. It was bound to be a mess. And then, for some reason we decided we
needed to fight terrorism as if terrorism was using second world war tactics,
and that they had uniforms and flags and armies. Who could have predicted that
It seems to me that everything we know comes from biased media. Studies and
polls probably only tell us how well they are at convincing us of their
That was pretty obvious in Afghanistan by mid-2002 and in Iraq before we even
started it. As for anyone blaming Obama, I'd like to know what you think we
should have done instead.
@CHS 85I agree with your last paragraph. The right analogy. @ LDS LiberalGood score card. Now give us one on Bengazi.
Brack was great being the situation room and getting in the photo on the Bin
Laden operation but he was AWOL on Bengazi. We still don't know his
whereabouts. then lied through his teeth about the video.
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