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Comments about ‘Conservative? Liberal? Gallup ranks the states’

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Published: Wednesday, Feb. 5 2014 12:00 a.m. MST

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JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"the conservative advantage is still appears predominant."

I can buy that. I consider myself a fiscal conservative (social moderate). I used to vote consistently R. But the GOP doesn't want me.

I am not religious. I don't see how gay marriage affects me. I don't think that the GOP is fiscally conservative. Some regulation is good. We need to raise taxes and cut spending until we balance our budget.

No, the GOP does not want me at all.

And the GOP has become embarrassing. The birthers, some of their plain ignorant stances concerning abortion, the rejection of science.
The political emails with no basis in fact that get spread around constantly and accepted at face value.

I take issue with many of the Democrats stances. But, I do not find them generally embarrassing. The GOP seems to revel in it.

Philosopher
Goose Creek, SC

What do the words 'conservative' and 'liberal' mean anymore? Aside from money, what do Republicans conserve? Aside from constitutional and moral values, what are Democrats 'liberating'?

LoBo4Justice
Coalville, UT

This is absurd. After the gerrymandering that goes on every ten years by the two major parties, is it any surprise that this is a result? Using 'conservative' and 'liberal' to divide the electorate and stop us from uniting around our common issues benefits only the corporatists in power who could care less about party affiliation and ideology. The people who have most benefited from the policies created by both conservatives and liberals in the last 40 years have been the one percent. It has been my experience that we all have some measure of conservative and liberal within us. When we will come together and elect candidates who represent us, not the corporations?

FatherOfFour
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

I would love to see an education and economic overlay to this same map. For instance, compare education in Vermont to Mississippi, or education in Massachusetts to Idaho. At the same time compare economic overlay as well. How does the economy in Alabama compare to the economy in New Jersey or Oregon? What percentage of high school seniors move on to upper level colleges in Maine versus those graduating in Oklahoma? From en economic standpoint (real estate value, average wage, number of people requiring government assistance just to pay the bills) how does Mississippi compare to Vermont? I just think these types of overlays would be interesting to see.

Thid Barker
Victor, ID

@ Fatheroffour. I live in Idaho and am very proud of my state. Its a wonderful place to live, work and raise a family. Very low crime, good schools, clean air, beautiful mountains, lakes and forests. Idaho is full of wonderful, hard working, patriotic conservative people. And Idaho's state government is in the black fiscally. In fact, no one could pay me enough to live in a liberal state!

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Or we could compare the states with the highest crime rates or the highest number of welfare recipients per capita, or the states that have the highest debts? California leads the nation in every one of those categories followed closely by other liberal states. No thanks, I will gladly live out my life in good old conservative Idaho where life is good.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Utah is closet liberal, leading the charge to make same sex marriage legal nation wide.

dmcvey
Los Angeles, CA

Mountanman, what is your source for your statement? According to the cencus the states with the highest (violent) crime rates are Tennessee, Nevada and Alaska--all conservative states. You might want to check facts before you post things like this.

By the way, the crime rates in liberal states like California and New York are dropping.

Sal
Provo, UT

@Hutterite:
What you meant to say was one person, Judge Shelby, is a closet liberal leading the charge to make same sex marriage legal nation wide. Utah is firmly against changing the definition of traditional marriage.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@JoeBlow – “I consider myself a fiscal conservative (social moderate). I used to vote consistently R. But the GOP doesn't want me.”

My sentiments exactly Joe (or is it Mr. Blow?)!!

By historical standards (and not today’s Tea Party) I’m center-right largely for economic/business reasons, but admit I don’t relate at all to most of what falls under the label of “social conservative.”

But this current GOP has gone off the rails as evidenced by the fact that they won’t own any of their real positions – “we didn’t shut down the government” when they strategized for months to do exactly that, or “we want to balance the budget” when everyone know what they really want is to shrink government down to a size where it can be drowned in a bathtub (the 90’s Reps wanted to balance the budget and they did, through cut AND taxes)

Also, it’s telling the amount of pushback we “RINOs” get on this forum from the Tea Party folks (i.e., the purity police). They may never win a national election again, but at least they’ll have the pride of “knowing” they’re right.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Mountanman
" with the highest crime rates or the highest number of welfare recipients per capita, or the states that have the highest debts? California leads the nation in every one of those categories"

I think we should see the maps of this because your first two conclusions are incorrect. Are you sure you were looking at rates or totals, because California has the largest population so it might have the highest totals while not having the highest rates?

Louisiana has the highest murder rate (behind DC), Tennessee has the highest violent crime rate (behind DC).

Mississippi is the poorest state in the nation as well as the highest percentage of people not paying federal income taxes (Romney won 8 out of the top 10 in this category, Obama won New Mexico and Florida) so they would take the highest rate of welfare recipients.

I'll give you the debt one.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@dmcvey. Google each category for sources. Its very interesting as you will see. Crime is dropping in every state, not just liberal ones. Its just that we have so little crime here that its hard to measure.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

California has the highest number of welfare recipients by far: 1,085,627. The next highest recipient state is New York, with 341,004 people on welfare. According to homework helper.

Bob A. Bohey
Marlborough, MA

If one chooses a liberal or conservative lens as the reference point from which all issues and arguments are viewed then one should not expect to be able to clearly evaluate said arguments and issues.

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

the liberal states are bankrupt and dying including Michigan, California, New York etc.. The more conservative states with GOP governors are doing quite well economically including Texas, Utah, etc... Bottom line - liberalism destroys and conservatism builds and grows....but we already knew that.

Wonder
Provo, UT

I have found myself in the same position as Joe Blow and Tyler D. I used to be a Republican and am probably center right on most things (i.e. I'm an old fashioned Republican), but there is no way I identify any more with the anti-science, victim playing, get something for nothing (i.e. get a bunch of government benefits without paying any taxes) party the Republicans have become. Fact is, we need SOME government regulation. We need to pay sufficient taxes to operate the government we actually want (not the tiny government we say we want until small government affects us personally). There are members of our society who actually do need help, and it is more efficient for us to collectively help them with things like health care instead of hoping that some doctors and hospitals will provide care for free. Or hoping that their neighbors can come up with a few hundred thou to pay for their medical care. The answers aren't easy, and the simplistic tea party ideas are set ups for a failed society.

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

@Hutterite:
"Utah is closet liberal." Absolutely, leading the charge to promote traditional marriage as a powerful tool to fight poverty. Oregan and New Mexico are closet conservatives retreating on human rights.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@patriot – “liberalism destroys and conservatism builds and grows....”

Continuing in this spirit of myopic observations and facile conclusions, by any measure of quality of life would you rather raise your kids in Vermont or Mississippi?

@Wonder – “I have found myself in the same position as Joe Blow and Tyler D.”

I suspect there are many more like us than not (perhaps a majority), but unfortunately our politics - driven by “news” as a profit center - have been hijacked by the extremes.

If we can ever fix our gerrymandering problem and if/when people get tired of having others think for them (by strategically pushing all their emotional buttons – fear on FOX and empathy on MSNBC), we may start letting then grownups take charge again.

But for now, as the saying goes, we’re getting the government we deserve… sadly.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Philosopher

Re: "what do Republicans conserve? Aside from constitutional and moral values, what are Democrats 'liberating'"...

First of all, Republicans are not necessarily "Conservatives". And Democrats are not necessarily "Liberals". Assuming that just illustrates a shallow understanding of the contradiction that is perplexing you.

#2. Conservatives (not Republicans) conserve...
-Money (they save more and spend less than Liberals in general).
-nature (a real conservative loves, preserves, and knows he owes his existence to the land).
-History (they keep reminding people of the real history of our country and mankind throughout the ages).
-Simple living (a real conservative would live as simple a life as possible). The people living in the huge McMansions are not real Conservatives (even if they are religious).

Liberals think they are liberating us by removing morals, and spending liberally, and pretending history doesn't matter (just their spin and reconstruction of history matters).

That was a very superficial analysis of the differences based on the traditional stereotypes. Others may see it differently.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Wonder
Provo, UT

I have found myself in the same position as Joe Blow and Tyler D.

=======

Agreed -- I as well.

The last Republican I voted for AS a Republican was Ronald Reagan.

You know:
Banning hand guns and assault weapons,
singed abortion legislation,
more Executive Orders than anyone else in the last 80 years,
granted amnesty to illegal immigrants,
raised the debt ceiling 17 times,
Increased the size and scope of the Federal Government,
etc., etc., etc.

The GOP and Tea-Partiers today SAY they love Reagan,
but he would be a RINO and publically crucified by them today.

THEY keep moving the goal posts,
[don't believe me, ask Mitt Romney how he feels about them].

I am now UN-affiliated,
but as the GOP drifts further and further to the uber-far-right-wing outfield,
it makes me and other FORMER Republicans appear to be becoming more and more left of center,
including Reagan.

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