What BYU and USU are thinking is beyond me. You would think that Coach Wells
would want to build on what Anderson built, but I guess he figures he'll do
what Brent Guy, John L Smith, and the rest of the poor Aggie coaches have done
and recruit away from Utah kids.BYU's inability to recruit in-state
lies on the shoulders of Kelly Poppinga, possibly the worst recruiter to ever
exist. Coach Doman was great with the kids, took time to get to know them, and
made them feel wanted. Pogginga on the other hand figures kids should want the
honor of playing at BYU and not only does nothing good, he discourages good
players.Utah has to compete at a different level, yet they still have the
most in-state kids signed.
It is statistically insignificant the difference in ave. stars of recruits among
the 3 schools. It's a statistic used by prevaracators and propagandists.
I appreciate that Coach Peck is trying to make sure his players get into a good
college, but he has to accept that all 3 programs have expanded their recruiting
areas and that there is a dearth of talent outside of Utah too. I'm sure he
does believe that his guys are D-I caliber players, but the truth is that there
are probably dozens of D-I level players that get overlooked every year. Truth
be told, it seems like a little sour grapes coming from a coach whose team won
the state championship, and now he can't point to his program and say that
it's translated directly into scholarships...
If you want to be the best team in the state you need to win the in-state
recruiting battle. Utah wins it every year, and have shown they are the best
team in the state recently. BYU needs to start looking at in-state kids more
@adwight - Apparently you didn't see the other DesNews headline then:
"BYU's decision to cast a wider recruiting net is refreshing,
I get the point of the article, but to be completely accurate, Weber and SUU are
D-1. They are in a different sub-division, but are still D-1.
New Weber HC Jay Hill is committed to recruiting Utah kids, stating recently
that he would like to average 60-65% instate recruits. And SUU has been doing a
good job of recruiting Utah kids for years. So any quality recruit snubbed by
the "Big 3" will be gobbled up by the state's two FCS schools,
Weber and SUU.
BYUs recruiting class on the whole is smaller this year because of the number of
kids coming home from missions. Normally they sign more Utah kids, but they just
don't have a big recruiting class anyway. The other issue is, who would BYU
drop an offer from to take an instate kid this year. The recruits are almost all
3 star guys with a couple four stars...Utah HS just haven't produced that
kind of talent this year. I recognize the bias that a HS coach has, but it does
sound like sour grapes when your guys just don't measure up to the guys
they've already got committed. BYUs recruiting class will be larger next
year and that will mean more recruits from the state of Utah.
Coach Andersen had it figured out. He has always recruited Utah kids and
continues to do so even now he's in Wisconsin. The results there are yet to
been seen, but every where else he's been he's had success.
How is it sour grapes? Peck has had a large number of kids in recent years get
D-1 offers. The coaches know these kids in state better than anybody. Some of
those kids that are signing with smaller Utah schools did have some D-1 offers
from out of state schools, but decided to stay in state to play. So it has
nothing to do with sour grapes. They know which kids have the talent to play at
the bigger programs, and they are saying they were overlooked by the big 3 in
state schools for kids coming from out of state. I know which kid Peck is
referring to that he says is a definite D-1 talent and didn't get 1 offer.
And he's absolutely right. The kid would contribute very well at one of
the big 3 in state programs. To me it's these schools thinking the grass
is greener in other states. Utah thinks now they are PAC 12, they should be
getting the 4 and 5 star kids from out of state. But they aren't.
Anderson was doing it the right way and it showed with how the program grew.
In the article it said that this is about a normal year. didn't it?
What's the big deal? Let's wait and actually see who goes where and
then go from there.
@Shawrim I don't agree with the article. If you want to have in-state
success, it all starts with getting the best in state kids. No ifs ands or
rationalizations will change that. BYU has struggled immensely these last few
years in state and are trying to slough it off as "a focus out of
state." They are getting beat out for in state recruits and the trend needs
"...that’s the colleges' job to prove me wrong,” said a
frustrated HamiltonHa. Not really. They don't have to prove
anything to you.
If this athlete referred to in the article truly is D-1 caliber he should walk
onto BYU's team. Look at all the walk-on's who have been very
successful. Bronco loves walk-on's and they historically have done well on
@ plyxply:I'm curious as to what your credentials are to know
the specifics of recruiting philosophy of each recruiter from each of the
instate big schools? How exactly is it that you know specifically what
Kelly Proppinga "figures" concerning his potential recruits? How and why
would he "discourage good players"... as you put it?Most of
what you're saying is opinion only and should be recognized as such... and
nothing else. As a known Ute fan, you obviously have your own bias, and it
shows. For your info, BYU does NOT have an inability to recruit
in-state. They've proven that year-in and year-out by often signing the
cream of the in-state crop. They usually have a double digit number of in-state
recruits. But as the article made very clear, BYU has an unusually high number
of returning missionary athletes coming back, so didn't recruit as many
this year. People, and especially critics, shouldn't read too much into
that. If it keeps happening, then that's another thing. But not yet. Interesting that some of the same critics who previously said BYU should
expand recruiting are now saying the opposite.
BYU and Utah have to learn to compete on a bigger stage and it won't happen
by recruiting local kids. These kids may look good in local games but they are
not the athletes needed to win against top quality athletes. The same Big
Fish/Little Pond reality that BYU and Utah have lived with for many years exists
in the recruiting game. Utah has gotten a heavy does of this reality since
entering in to the PAC 12 and BYU has not exactly fared well since going
independent and playing more of the big boys.Anyone can do well in
one game but to play a heavy weight schedule week after week you need a higher
caliber athlete. Very few of those will come from Utah. Take a look at BYU
basketball. Athletes are needed to consistently compete.
Adwight:I don't agree with you that BYU is trying to slough anything
off. BYU has turned it's focus and attention out of state, not just in
recruiting but in where their athletes and athletic programs compete. They are
trying to put their athletic teams all over the country to play from coast to
coast as part of their mission and philosophy. Recruiting out of state just
follows that philosophy and believe me that will continue. BYU will recruit less
and less in state players, not because Utah HS players aren't good but
because BYU wants a wider, broader reach and seeks to accomplish that partially
through their sports programs. As for Utah and Utah State who have different
missions or philosophies (aren't trying to increase exposure to the Mormon
faith for instance), I agree they should try and keep as much of the great
talent from the state here as they can.
With all due respect, BYU is not a Utah university. It is a university that
happens to be in Utah. Given that its student body and alumni hail from all
across the nation, and indeed the world, it makes more sense for them to recruit
out of state such that their football team is more of a reflection of its
student body and alumni. Students and alumni do not want to watch a football
team made up almost exclusively of Utah players. Football independence makes it
even more desirable to recruit broadly because the majority of road games are
not played exclusively in a single region. Coach, if your players are as good
as you say they are then they'll get their chance.
I think the timing is right for Utah Valley to start playing football.
Btw, to call Kelly Poppinga a bad recruiter is beyond ridiculous. He brings in
big time players at outside linebacker on a consistent basis and this years
recruiting class is no exception. Matter of fact I'd wager that linebacker
is probably BYUs best recruited position right now overall and I think most
people that are fans and follow BYU football would agree with me in that regard.
Plyxply...write these names down, Fred Warner & Tyler Cook...and be sure to
watch Alani Fua again next year because, while he's been in Van Noys shadow
he still made some amazing plays this year and will be a stud next year. And who
recruited these guys? You probably won't want to answer that.
With Tukuafu committing to the Aggies and yet another in state kid on his way,
the Aggies in state numbers will look much better tomorrow. GO AGGIES!
A University has only 25 offers to give out to HS and JC recruits each year and
some years (like Utah & BYU this year) even a few less than that with
returning missionaries and the like.Utah as 9 commitments... Nine
out of 20-some spots? How can Peck say Utah is not looking at the State of Utah
enough? If anything it seems like the Utes are planning on signing more in-state
prospects than normal...One the other side of the coin the Bingham
player that the Utes would have dearly loved to have become a Ute is going
out-of-state to Stanford. That is a great school and certainly don't
question the young man's right to make his decision, but if Peck
"crows" about sending a kid to Stanford. I think it is a two way street,
if Peck expects his very best players to "go off to some big name
program" he then has some gall to criticize the local Universities for
passing on his "next best" players... He sounds like a HS Coach that
wants his cake and eat it to, it is not the local college programs job to make
him look good.
While BYU is being criticized for not recruiting enough Utah kids it must be
remembered that they tried to recruit several of the kids on that list that went
elsewhere. Wisconsin, Stanford, Michigan and Utah beat them on some of their
desired recruiting targets. BYU did what it needed to do and went out of state
to get the same type of kid. Another important point is that some of the kids
on that list are not LDS and do not want to go to BYU. Coaches do what they
feel they need to do to keep their jobs. Recruiting is a crapshoot. Jake Heaps
was a 5-star recruit who was overvalued. Cody Hoffman was a no star recruit.
Need I say more. Time will tell who made the best decisions in this recruiting
I think one of the factors that will hurt in state recruiting is the kids
themselves. When Utah puts a lot of time and effort into recruiting kids like
Schultz and Frison when they were raw talent and flying completely under the
radar only to have Stanford and Nebraska come in the final moments and pick them
off after Utah helped raise their profile by extending an offer that only
lessens the chances that Utah will continue to recruit heavily in Utah. Stanford
in particular seems to enjoy letting Utah make offers to Utah kids and do all
the evaluating for them and then show up and woo them with a Stanford offer and
education. It isn't as though Utah is still playing in the MWC. These kids
are getting offers from Utah to play on a big stage in the PAC 12 and then
snubbing the local program. Maybe it is time for coaches like Peck to tell their
kids to be loyal to the local schools if they want the local schools to continue
recruiting the State. What goes around comes around.
When the UoU, USU and BYU are all passing on players upon which they have the
best local knowledge, one must assume 1 of 3 things:1)All three programs
coaches are incompetent at every position. (not likely).2) The coaches are
deliberately snubbing local talent for some mysterious reason.3) The local
talent was not better than alternative talent this year.I'm
going to go with #3. Because usually the rational choice is correct.
I'm not sure what the intent of this story was?Schools recruit
the best kids for their programs needs! If they don't need a QB,
they're not going to recruit one. They recruit the best kids for their
needs, which means some kids are forced to go out of state, or accept lower
division offers.There are a lot of great high school players, who
are just that, great high school players. Utah does get shorted on recruiting,
but not for the reason many might think. We have a small population of high
school players relative to the rest of the US. A college recruiter can go to
the city of Houston, Texas and see more players there, verses scouting and
travelling the entire state of Utah. Many have called out specific
recruiters in these blogs. Sounds personal to me! A recruiters job depends
upon the work they do. If guys are keeping there jobs, I'm guessing
it's because they are doing their jobs correctly for their programs
needs.Again, not sure what the point of this article was?
Taters, I have coached at the high school level in 5A for many years, have had
my own sons recruited by the in-state colleges as well as numerous other
players.Currently I have coached players at every college in the state and
have talked with each of the recruiters from USU, Utah, Weber, and BYU and have
heard what each have said to our players. That would be how.
Take a chill pill locals. Your sense of entitlement is alarming. BYU isn't
a state school, it is a national school with a national student population.
Utahn's have no more right to be there than anyone else. It doesn't
matter where players are from, if Bronco thinks they fit the bill, then they are
welcome with open arms. He also has to juggle missions, honor code and academic
qualifications that other schools don't. The stadium will still fill, and
TV sets will still be turned to Cougar games.
Cougsndawgs: Being someone who is close to recruiting every day I can tell you
that BYU treats in state players like garbage. I know many recruits who were
turned off by BYU's recruiting process and the way that they treat the
players that they recruit. I'm not saying that it isn't a good thing
that BYU is trying to have a broader reach. But there are plenty of players in
state who are just as talented as other states that BYU needs to start getting.
But they are pushing those players away through the way they recruit them. 3 in
state recruits this year, 5 last year. Only getting that number of players from
your own state is going to end up biting BYU in the rear end. They need to be
getting the best talent in the state to play for them. Right now it simply is
Well, whoever BYU and Utah have been recruiting the past few years it's not
Plyxply,You are right. Others like me have had the same experience you
have. That will catch up to him eventually.
Doesn't the other headline about the National Champion Lone Peak starters
choosing missions over NCAA athletics get into the mix just a little? Second
year of the 18 yr olds - last season money and time had already been invested in
recruiting before October Conference through a wrench in the machine. I'm
interested in seeing how the recruiting process goes for RM's next year -
in addition to current crop. And please, don't hate on me for an
"assumption" that all FB players are LDS. I don't think anyone can
provide a definitive answer yet - as to the effect of 18 year old eligibility
and the D1 athlete.
@Cougsndawgs - I think there are MANY other positions on the field besides LB.
I hope Kelly Poppinga would do a better job recruiting DLineman. BYU was
horrible last season and with what is coming back will be awful again this
Adwight:Fair enough.I don't have recruiting experience
but I personally know two players that were recruited by BYU. Kavika Fonua who
played for Syracuse HS is a family friend and played with two of my nephews, and
Jordon Preator who played for Fremont HS and is my best friend's son. Both
had nothing but good things to say about their recruiters (especially Nick
Howell) and how well they were treated. Both ended up signing for BYU, Kavika
this year and Jordon last year. So my personal experience doesn't match
your experience, but I'm not close to recruiting everyday like you are. I
have heard some players say BYU didn't respect them or treat them well, but
I've heard that as much about Utah...so is it the school or the player in
that situation? I don't know...but both the examples I gave loved their
recruiting process with BYU.
These recruiter should give the 2A talent a look. There are some unpolished
diamonds available at some of these smaller schools.
Trying not to take sides in this issue is difficult... what this article is
stating is co-insiding with the high school coach... the writer may have made
some good points, HOWEVER.... have you looked at it from the University's
point of view. Example.... a university has five great tackles coming back in
one position. but.. is loosing a speedster half back. Point.. the university
coach is going to hunt to replace the speedster... the high school coach has a
great tackle, not being recruited. It's just the nature of the game...
replace first... the position that is needed filling... if there are no
speedsters in high school to fill the gap.. sorry mr. high school coach... your
tackle doesn't get recruited. Unfortunate , u-bet, but a reality of life.
already mentioned is the league you play in and calibre of player need for your
league..look at Weber, Suu, or Dixie... They could play there to develope
the talant they want to show.
A scholarship isn't the mark of a good football player, and the real
players will walk on and find a place on a team. Happens all the time. There
is no entitlement to a d-1 scholarship just because you're a star on one of
the top 10 programs in a (smallish) state. It's a fallacy, no matter how
much it may reflect poorly on what a H.S. coach may have been telling his
players encouraging them for years. Best Wishes to all these kids at finding a
place to play ball if they're convinced they can play in college,
they're apparently going to have to fight their way on.
Gotta add that triple comment that if these coaches want their kids to be
recruited by Universities in the state of Utah, then they need to tell their
kids to play for the Universities in the state of Utah. It's ridiculous
that Utah was the "dream" for some of these kids and now that others are
recognizing their talent, they jump ship to other Universities. If the instate
Universities were able to catch all of these high ranked players each year, I
think the teams would be a different story. Just take a look at a new coach and
some good in state recruits for the Utes bball. As a side note, Utah football
might be in trouble if they can't get these good recruits from the last few
years to perform this year. This recruiting class is getting pathetic.
I'm going to throw this out there. If you want a DB, you go outside of
Utah, pure and simple. If you want a top-flight WR, you probably do the same.
Sorry, speed kills and Utah preps don't have it generally. Utah does
produce some good linemen, LB's and maybe some safeties and RB's. But
I would bet a good deal of the skill players all the schools have come from out
of state. And since McMahon, the only in-state QB BYU ever had that was decent
was Doman himself. Except in rare occassions, and yes there are these
occasions, one has probably go out of state to get that blue chip recruit
whether it be Keeton, Hill, Wilson or whoever. The amount of Utah prep recruits
is probably about right, probably too much if anything.
I thought Weber State specifically hired Coach Hill to recruit instate athletes.
Why no mention of Weber and SUU? If any school is desperately in need of
talent it is Weber. And what about SUU hiring Crowton. Say what want about him
he is still one of the top offensive coordinators in the country having coached
at Oregon and LSU. I would consider SUU if I was a recruit. What wasn't
mentioned is why a player might choose to go out of state. Could it be more
academics than sports. A scholarship to a school like Stanford would be hard to
turn down. Especially if a student has ambitions to further their education at
a graduate level. Go Aggies. Look forward to next year. And hopefully Utah
will pick up a few more wins in close games.
Adwight....how many games did Utah win this past season? I don't care
where the kids come from as long as they can PLAY FOOTBALL, keep the rules and
get a quality education, which they will get at BYU if they put in the time and
work at it. The best team in the state is the one who performs best all season
long, goes to a bowl game and wins more than they lose. Both BYU and Utah State
did that this year. Not Utah.
This is a great article and Coach Peck is an expert recruiting in the State of
Utah and outside of the state.
Wake up to reality Utah. All parents think their kid should play D1... And
most high school coaches like Peck and Hamilton live in a bubble. The
recruiting hot bed for FBS is Florida, Georgia, Texas and California. These
states produce 200 to 300 D1 every year while the standard in Utah, Colorado,
Arizona, Idaho, Nevada, produce 30 to 35 each year. If your kid wants to play
offensive line at a FBS...typically 6'5, 280 lbs, running 5.0 40 is the
guideline coaches look for. How many of these kids does Utah have. I will
agree that Weber and SUU can fill there rosters with local talent and they
should. SUU does and that is why they own Weber at this point, but if Utah,
USU and BYU want to compete in there conference then they need to look outside
of Utah. By the way, there are only 8 Utah kids playing on PAC 12 rosters
(excluding Utah)...go figure.
3 Facts that make a difference that the Utah HS coaches don't get.1)
Rules regarding offering scholarships have changed ( thanks to SEC, etc. over
offering, knowing kids will become ineligible, get arrested, etc.) so the total
number has decreased. 2) Mission age change completely changed the dynamic
for RMs and will take a couple of years to flush out.3) So far, recruiting
Utah kids has not led to a National championship in recent history.. (Definiton
of insanity: doing same thing over and over and expecting different result.)
BYU wants a national championship and needs best athletes to make it happen.
After being known as the "pipeline to Provo", Peck now whines that Utah
and Utah State have gone elsewhere for recruits. The deciding factor on whether
he has fewer D1 kids this year is the fact Bronco passed on all of those Peck
I find it funny that coaches are complaining about players being overlooked by
the college coaches for someone they think is better. Don't these same
High School coaches do the same thing. They pick the best players that they can
possibly get. Parents are always complaining about the coaches and who is not
Rock On, it's too easy to spot an Uggies apologist. I know BYU stole your
color, USU invented Blue and they mess with your missionaries. Boo Hoo U-S-U.
BYU and Utah players are much higher rated and it shows in the win column. What
were the scores from 2013 between USU and Utah or BYU, I keep forgetting?
CONSPIRACY!!!All these programs have always secretly hated all Utah high
schools and now they have the chance to let it show. I've even heard that
the University of Utah is moving all of its students, faculty, and buildings to
California. There's even plans to transport the U right off the
mountain!Maybe, just maybe, these universities found better players
in other states. Chill out.
Utah parents and Coaches--Get off your high horses and realize that the top high
school athletes come from outside of your state and the the practice of
recruiting heavily within Utah is the formula for mediocrity-- a current case in
I think the timing is right for Utah Valley to say they're glad they never
took up football.
@Scores - " The best team in the state is the one who performs best all
season long, goes to a bowl game and wins more than they lose." Well, when you're playing lousy teams, all the wins in the world
don't matter. Yeah, BYU's record was great this year, but look at what
happened in their bowl game... The same goes for their basketball program. Sure
they're killing it against WCC teams, but any time a real opponent comes to
town, they get spanked. Utah's football record may have been lousy this
year, but they also had arguably the toughest schedule in the country. They
played 5 top 25 ranked teams, and lost their starting QB along the way. And most
of those were pretty close games too. It's like that episode of
Seinfeld when Kramer touted being the best in his karate class. Sure he beat
everyone else...but "everyone else" was a bunch of 8-year-olds...
How many recruits from Utah has Gary Anderson snatched up for Wisconsin, 2014?
Coach Hamilton and Peck are right on. Even ESPN stated earlier this year that
Utah ranks 13 among high school talent and is a MUST recruit state. If you look
among the JC ranks, you will see a lot of Utah players that were initially
overlooked and landed scholarships in major programs after their first year. The impact that missions have with those players that choose also needs to be
considered. A young man can sign, he then serves a mission, then decides to
change his mind where he wants to go. After 18 months, there is no NCAA rule
that prevents him from going elsewhere. Interesting dynamic that Colleges need
The State of Utah needs to stop crying. BYU is getting an Allen, TX recruit in
Tejan Koroma (not Trejan). Allen (High School), TX won the Texas 5A, Div I
state championship for the second year in a row and was ranked No. 1 in two
national polls and 2nd in the nation overall. However, they only have five D-1
recruits. There is just a lot of talent out there that is better than Utah.
Tejan was named first team all state for two years in row. Hopefully my son
will be a Texas D-1 recruit going to a Utah based school in the future. If not
its because there is a lot of talent.
It goes two ways.Some Utah preps went to Wisconsin, Stanford, and
Oklahoma.You do what you think is best.
There were 10 players who signed with out-of-state D1 programs also. And it is
true that Weber State and SUU are also D1. As for BYU, they have two years to
recruit 2014 graduates so we just have to wait and see what happens.
TX football, The state of Utah needs to stop crying? What is the state crying
about exactly?I too believe there are a lot of kids that can play division
one ball that were overlooked. However, those kids can do what many others have
done in years past and go to a good JC and get picked up by a major division one
school after a couple years.
To recruit outside the state to be diversified, (this is what I am getting from
some other posts) is a big mistake. More athletes from out of state would want
to come and play with BYU if they were any good. But the fact is, they are not
good, therefore, less people want to play for them. They would actually be able
to reach a greater "diversified" group of people if they would just
focus on winning.
If a kid has the chance to go to Stanford or Utah, that decision is a
no-brainer. At least BYU has a unique value proposition. Utah is just another
state school, and its academics generally aren't as good as many schools,
like Stanford, that they compete with. Utah is also having a tough time
recruiting the best students. Even BYU seems to be winning on that front
"the Gary Andersen model"? Yea well how many Utah kids did Gary recruit
this year? I'm sorry, but last I checked all three of the coaches
mentioned in this article seem pretty successful, I think they know what they