Comments about ‘Utah lawmakers criticized for transgender comments on Twitter, later apologize’

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Published: Monday, Feb. 3 2014 1:05 p.m. MST

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sanpaco
Sandy, UT

What a waste of time and tax payer money.

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

@Tators, so body parts make the determination? What if you have both? What percentage is required of each to make a determination that would make you comfortable?

@Business Teacher, what specifically determines opposite sex, from a biological, physiological, genetic, endocrinology and psychological perspective. How is one "supposed" to make that determination? You seem to have this all figured out. As you can see, genetic, and body parts are not enough.

Please provide specifics, not speculation.

What has been the experience of school districts in California and other states that have addressed this issue for years? How many dangerous characters out there are misrepresenting themselves in school bathrooms? Evidence please, not irrational fear.

CDL
Los Angeles, CA

This is about children. You don't disrespect the majority of children and their feelings and discomfort because of a few. Those few can deal with it a bit longer until they get out of school. Then they can go knock themselves out and do their thing. This is about common sense. What they were born genetically should decide which bathrooms and, locker rooms and showers are used.

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

@Tators, what if the body parts don't match the birth certificate? What if the genetic testing shows something different than the body parts? How do you get the birth certificate changed? Answer You can't. Do you have any other ideas?

Archie1954
Vancouver, BC

Just build unisex washrooms from now on. Such washroom facilities are completely private so that either gender can use them in complete confidence of their personal privacy.

klimber510
Salt Lake City, UT

SB100 states:

517 (b) It is a discriminatory and prohibited employment practice to deny an employee
518 access to restrooms, shower facilities, or dressing facilities that are consistent with the
519 employee's gender identity

According to SB100 what is gender identity?

83 (k) "Gender identity" means an individual's internal sense of gender, without regard to
84 the individual's designated sex at birth. Evidence of gender identity may include an
85 individual's self-identification, as well as the individual's gender-related appearance,
86 mannerisms, and other gender-related characteristics.

What does this mean? It means that if I am a biological male who identifies as female, an employer must allow me to use the ladies' restroom, dressing area, and showers.

Where? Certainly any facility that receives public funds, such as the county recreational facility where you go swimming. Also, any incorporated business such as the gym where you go exercise or where you work.

I strongly object to this provision in SB100. I believe it is an outrageous encroachment on women's privacy and right to feel safe at their place of employment or a public facility.

One question: Do these provisions extend to patrons of these establishments or just for emplyees?

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

@ Tators
You wrote:
"For thousands of years, this hasn't been an issue for civilization. And now it suddenly is? Wow!"

Perhaps it wasn't much of a civilization after all.

We live at the best time in human history. For the first time we dare to question and pay attentions to matters that we used to discard or ignore because it made us uncomfortable.

Jesus talk about this in Luke 8:16,17
"No one lights a lamp and hides it in a clay jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, they put it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light. 17 For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open."

jcobabe
Provo, UT

My impression is that this is a case where the exception proves the rule. There is little need for everyone to compromise in what serves well for the overwhelming majority, to placate unreasonable demands of a few. Mandates that impose the lowest common denominator on everyone only serve to force everyone to act as equally handicapped.

Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

Very complicated concept here. Common sense and common decency along with simple anatomy speak to having separate bath and locker rooms for girls and separate ones for boys. Maybe that isn't politically correct to say?

If all else fails, maybe we can fall back on what is "morally correct"?

Now for those few individuals who have a "gender identity" issue, perhaps they can use the nurses restroom or another restroom designated for that particular accommodation?

Hence we preserve respect for each gender and dignity for all those other kids who appreciate privacy and decency when they use the restroom. Pretty simple.

3sons
Ladson, SC

When I was teaching at the high school there were children that felt more comfortable using the bathroom in the nurse's office.

Business Teacher
Orem, ut

>No H8 - Celebrate: Asking a question certainly does imply that I do not have all the answers does it not? But if you do not see a problem here, you obviously have never sent a little boy into a men's bathroom alone for the first time, or a little girl into a ladies room alone for that matter. It's a scary time, as there ARE bad people out there, and they use restrooms to hide their actions. Do you really need me to cite examples to you? Why don't you just do a little google there yourself. I think you'll find plenty. Change can be good, but only if there is a better way. This way is pretty foggy at best. Though we adults can just pretend it isn't wierd or awkward, there is a point to feeling that way- people's sexuality isn't meant to be ignored, but kept sacred and private. There are a few folks who want change and want it now and they don't have logical plans in place to bridge that gap.

Benjamin Heward
Orem, UT

years ago at a business conventions, we found ourselves caught in the middle of a national transgender convention. The hotel had bathrooms set aside for naturally born females, for those who were uncomfortable with a man who had had surgery and hormone treatment coming into the bathroom with them (and attempting to fit into the female modes of checking on make-up and talking by the mirror for periods of time).

About 20% of people will find themselves disabled at some point in their life. This is why we have wheelchair accessible bathrooms.

Creating a floor to ceiling stall for a transgender (rather than a born hermaphrodite person) would single them out to ridicule. If they are obviously male (whether transgender or not), they should be in the male restroom. If they were born with a sexual organ defect, they should be able to go into the restroom they feel is correct to their gender.

Business Teacher
Orem, ut

>Baccus0902 your scriptural referrence is way out of context. But if you want to use scripture, go ahead and explaine why there is not reference to Jesus' sexuality in scripture? is it because he's straight and married, gay or celibate? Well, what it for certain is, is PRIVATE, because it is considered sacred, and not up for everyone's discussion. Your talents, your good works, your service should not be hid under a bushel. Your private life, well, there is a clear example given here.

Evidence Not Junk Science
Iron, UT

@JcoBabe "here is little need for everyone to compromise in what serves well for the overwhelming majority, to placate unreasonable demands of a few."

Are you suggesting that a minority should continue to placate the ignorance of the majority? Is this a legitimate and rational basis for state law?

Maine's state supreme court noted that the court found there was a violation of the Human Rights Act: by prohibiting the use of a female restroom though she identified as female, the school district discriminated because of her gender identity.

Other cases around the country hint at further progress on the issue of transgender bathroom use. Two individuals in Iowa, both of whom were born as males and identify as females, won the right to use women’s public restrooms. In June, in Colorado, six year old Coy Mathis’ family won their case against the Fountain-Fort Carson School District that had barred Coy’s use of a female restroom. Now, the Maines case can be added to the list of successes in furthering the rights and acceptance of transgender individuals.

The only way to resolve animus appears to be through a court of law. Let the legal action begin!!

Evidence Not Junk Science
Iron, UT

@Business Teacher, "But if you do not see a problem here, you obviously have never sent a little boy into a men's bathroom alone for the first time, or a little girl into a ladies room alone for that matter. It's a scary time, as there ARE bad people out there, and they use restrooms to hide their actions."

The please cite the scary times and problems that have occurred as a result of California's transgender protection law..
Facts and evidence are better than animus, fear and irrational sky will fall arguments.

"We have had no incidents of anybody pretending to be transgender,"

As the district has for nearly a decade, Chiasson said that Los Angeles schools would determine students' eligibility for the law on a case-by-case basis, verifying that a student's gender identity has been "consistent" and "persistent." Conservative claims that the law would let students who aren't transgender sneak into opposite-sex restrooms and locker rooms won't pan out, because such claims bear no relationship to the reality of implementing transgender protections."- MM for America

jcobabe
Provo, UT

This is clearly not related to "ignorance". It is logical. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.

Evidence Not Junk Science
Iron, UT

@Jcobabe " The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one."

3 hungry wolves and one delicious lamb simply do not have the right to vote on what they need for dinner, under our US constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection for all americans preventing your tyranny of the majority.

Charlemagne
Salt Lake City, Utah

This makes me think about Michael Medved's comment regarding a law in California that allowed students to use the facilities for the gender they chose:
"How many high school boys do you think there are in California wondering how many days they have to wear a dress before they get to go into the girl's locker room?"

Clearly that overwhelming number of students who are not gender confused have the right to use bathrooms and locker rooms without somebody of the opposite sex being there!

Evidence Not Junk Science
Iron, UT

@Charlemange ""How many high school boys do you think there are in California wondering how many days they have to wear a dress before they get to go into the girl's locker room?"

Great news, not even one, hasn't been a problem in school districts across the nation for over ten years now.. Anymore hyperbole?

jcobabe
Provo, UT

To inform the minds of the people, and to follow their will, is the chief duty of those placed at their head. (Thomas Jefferson)

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