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Comments about ‘Utah lawmakers criticized for transgender comments on Twitter, later apologize’

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Published: Monday, Feb. 3 2014 1:05 p.m. MST

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desert
Potsdam, 00

"We welcome your thoughtful comments"

Well, how am I to put this down to be thoughtful ?

First there used to be a bathroom for handicaps, since they do need more space and time, not one around to harass them. That same restroom would be asinged to any in doubt (med.)
as well.That is as far as you could call it today.

From now on ?
Define me gender in doubt, would a patriarchal blessing make sure ? Are there political motivations behind those wishing to be as they could select gender ? But who would trust a patriachial blessing in a public school ?

I think it used to be ok for special people to have special restrooms.
But now there is a political movement on the horizon that claims insults around any possible corner; good to put some preventive rulings into place.

I hope WW III is not to start on this one.
Whom to trust in our days ?

My thoughtful comment is in this direction, if people are kind and can be trusted we need less law, when our society goes down the drain, we need laws plenty.
Bad times.

tra1951
Ferron, UT

Why bother with our liberal judges. It is a waste of time for something they will rule unconstitutional.

A Quaker
Brooklyn, NY

@desert: So, society is going down the drain because people are trying to do something about vulnerable children being ostracized or assaulted in school restrooms?

It's the job of schools to educate and protect every child entrusted to their guardianship. We have laws that require children to attend school. The least we could have are laws to keep them safe while they're there.

Gender Identity Disorder is not a joke, although plenty of people here seem to want to make it into one, or worse. If a child is honestly living the life of a girl, or of a boy, with the support of family, friends and physicians, it's dangerous to single them out and force them into the opposite restroom. Take a look at the young woman in Maine who won her court case. You tell me honestly if she looks like she belongs in the boys' restroom. (Hint: NO.) Her girlfriends CHEERED when they heard she won the right to be treated the same as the other girls.

Sometimes kids have more basic sense than adults.

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@desert "... We need laws plenty."

How do we pass moral judgement on gender identity and people born inter-sex? DNA won't work, "proper" body parts biology, physiology and endocrinology won't work either. Do we look to our religious organizations to make the determination? Can our legislators figure this all out and assign the proper gender to someone in our laws without considering all of the factors that make up gender?

It turns out that DNA is not much help either in properly passing moral judgement on the gender of others. There is more to maleness and femaleness than X or Y chromosomes. About 1 in 20,000 men has no Y chromosome, instead having 2 Xs. This means that in the United States there are about 7,500 men without a Y chromosome. The equivalent situation - females who have XY instead of XX chromosomes - can occur for a variety of reasons and overall is similar in frequency.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

The girl in Maine had doctor certification of her gender. She used the girl's restroom for 5+ years until a _boy_ complained about it.

Balpreet Kaur is a Sikh woman with a beard.

Most transgender individuals present as the gender they identify with - meaning trans mtf will not be a man with a beard wearing a dress.

The average person would not know someone was transgender unless that person told them.

What are you going to do? Have DNA testers outside all school restrooms?

SAMom
Ladson, SC

I agree with Rep. Kennedy. Keep it simple. If you were born a boy, use the boy's bathroom. If you were born a girl, use the girl's bathroom. How many times do you have to use the bathroom in one school day?

equal protection
Cedar, UT

Laws a plenty, who are we helping, who are we protecting?

"Science provides further evidence of these complex distinctions and interrelations. Brown University biologist Anne Fausto-Sterling studies the biological variation of sex characteristics among humans. Her research estimates that 4 percent of babies born are “intersex,” meaning they are born with some mixture of male and female characteristics that prevent them from being neatly sorted into binary categories of biologically female or biologically male. More children are born intersex, than are born with red hair (1 percent to 2 percent). If we apply these findings to Orange County, California, it translates into more than 20,000 students who were born intersex now attending local schools.

An individual's biological sex is different from one's “gender identity,” or the way in which an individual understands and experiences masculinity and femininity. And, though related to gender identity, it is also important to recognize that an individual's “gender expression” – the gender one enacts and performs in one's public life – can also be distinct, and even sometimes in opposition to, one's internal gender identity."- Dr. K. Ketchum.

Liberty For All
Cedar, UT

The proposed law's practical effect of punishment and shame is the best solution to this problem. Look at the horrific outcome of the effect of this law in California and other states that have addressed this issue in their school districts for years. The evidence is clear and convincing.

Liddle Bruda
Salt Lake City, UT

No, we won't look at LGBT legislation at all... except the ones that will restrict transgender rights...

wrz
Phoenix, AZ

The answer is not too complicated. Just have full doors and ceiling to floor walls on stalls. And keep the 'restroom' apart from the sinks and mirrors.

mcclark
Salt Lake City, UT

@ 1951 That dang Constitution, every time you want to trample on some folks rights, there it is, saying you can't do that.

county mom
Monroe, UT

As long as there are stalls for every bathroom, who cares which restroom you use?
Eliminate urinals in every single restroom and the problem is solved.

This also has the positive effect of making men have to wait in line just as long as women, to use the restroom.

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

@SAMom "I agree with Rep. Kennedy. Keep it simple. If you were born a boy, use the boy's bathroom. If you were born a girl, use the girl's bathroom."

And how specifically is that determination made? Please read some of the comments above before you answer. DNA won't work, body parts won't work, biology won't work. A patriarchal blessing appears to be the best way and should be legislated by law in order to attend public school.

desert
Potsdam, 00

As far as I know, Muslims and Mormons treat their offspring with disabilities in a very kind and respectful manner.
In Utah we have much done for special care and treatment for those who have less intelligence or physical shortcomings. This is well known to the church and its welfare program.

The evil done with a new agenda on gender choice or inborn trades, is not to treat them with kindness, but to put them on public display to serve any political purpose.
If there are children with such abnormalities, they are in need to be treated as much as normal, but kept in distance to publicity and emotional confrontation.

Many comments on this subject deny them such privacy to live a normal life.
They stirr up the heat, instead such children have rights to live a quiet life.

jsteve
Herriman, UT

@equal protection
Are you and Ketchum referring to Anne Fausto-Sterling's paper, The Five Sexes? This paper was a thought exercise and had nothing scientific about it; no experiment was performed.
While I do agree with the idea that sensitivity is absolutely necessary, to whom should we be sensitive, the individual or the masses? With the instance in Maine- her friends were okay with it, but is that indicative of how it would always be, or might some be offended? Another question- who determines this?
Imagine a teenage boy decides he wants to go to the girl's locker room. He pretends he feels like a girl so that he can do so and gains access. This can lead to all sorts of problems. Ample documentation would need to be provided, then, and who is to say what would qualify one to use the other bathrooms? This issue is much more complex than the feelings of one person, as everyone around them has feelings and motivations as well.

cstott
Lehi, UT

Boys go to the boys room, girls to the girls room. Is this really that difficult? I don't want an adult gay male stepping out of a stall while my 10 year old daughter is waiting.

Business Teacher
Orem, ut

Ok, here's my question: Why did we separate bathrooms in the first place? Wasn't it to avoid the awkwardness of private bathroom situations to the opposite sex if not protect our children from being alone around potentially dangerous adult characters? If I'm wrong about that, please let me know.

And if I'm not has that changed any since our first public bathrooms? I'm sorry, I don't want to do my business around folks of the opposite sex, or those who feel they are. Let's be honest, I know it's not all about sexual attraction. But can't we have any social expectations of private behavior anymore for fear of offending those who have changed or are deciding their sexual orientation? And if I've upset you, I'm sorry. It's an honest question.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ equal protection and Kalindra:

I don't see where this legislation is about passing moral judgement on anyone. It's a physical, not moral issue. There are physical, sexual differences between guys and girls that have always been distinguished and accepted.

In the interest of political correctness, we are making this issue a lot more complicated than it should be. It seems lately that even the tiniest segments of society want special treatment and are blurring the lines of distinction.

Do you think we should perhaps have a separate "inter-sex" bathroom for those who are not really sure that their body parts can tell them who or what they are?

Since almost all restrooms have stalls with locking doors, it shouldn't be a big issue for anyone born a girl to use the girl's room and for those born a boy to use the boy's room. Though there are exceptions to everything, the vast majority of people just want to appease the calls of nature when using a restroom and nothing more. A simple concept.

For thousands of years, this hasn't been an issue for civilization. And now it suddenly is? Wow!

Furry1993
Ogden, UT

@wrz 3:57 p.m. Feb. 3, 2014

The answer is not too complicated. Just have full doors and ceiling to floor walls on stalls. And keep the 'restroom' apart from the sinks and mirrors.

-------------------------

My thought exactly. Problem solved.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ No H8 - Celebrate:

Very few answers in life are totally absolute. Just pick a method and go with it. If a person's birth certificate says he's a boy and he has boy body parts, use the boy's restroom.

If born with girl body parts and that person's birth certificate says she's a girl, have her use the girl's restroom.

For the love of common sense, why are some people trying to make such a simple issue of restroom use so complicated? Regardless of what a particular study might allude to or insinuate, the number of people actually mixed up about whether they are male or female is truly miniscule.

There are much bigger issues in life that need much more attention than what some people are trying to give to this one. Let's move on.

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