It is a good thing that several religions within the United States teach and
encourage moral behavior. Including the virtues of duty to God, country, our
fellow man, and to ourselves. More of your young boys and men need to be taught
these values, and encouraged and expected to live up to them. Some of these
virtues can be had in the public realm. But in the religious arena, they are
part and parcel of what going to church is all about. More parents need to take
advantage of what religion has to offer!
One underlying thought seems to be that if we end up paying women more than men,
then many families might choose to make the woman the breadwinner, whereas the
model for a good family has the hubby as the wage earner. That's why the
information in the editorial is so important, noting that when education and
other factors are taken into consideration, "the gap may not only disappear,
it may exist in the other direction."
As a parent of boys I see this every day. Since the 60s and the feminist
revolution men have become the laughing stock of society. TV shows do nothing
but denegrate men, making them look like drunken fools while uplifting women as
the responsible problem solvers who are burdened with caring for their inane
husbands. Schools are now predominantly controlled by women. Men
no longer desire to teach. Women, unfortunately, cannot teach young men to be
men as effectively as men can. There is one other devastating
consequence that is not discussed in this article. Women, by nature, tend to
marry up, meaning, they desire a man that will protect and provide for them.
Men in turn, by nature, desire to marry a woman he can protect and provide for.
As more and more women gain success the pool of available and potential mates
decreases enormously. Women are going to find themselves in a serious
predicament as men and boys continue to decline and women continue to achieve
more and more success. We've got everything backward in our society and we
can't seem to find a balance.
Jamescmeyer, please reply with specifics illustrating how you and other elders
were marginalized at the expense of sister missionaries, at the MTC and the
I'm really grateful for Mom of 8's comments. It's one of the
largest problems I've struggled with, and I've done so most of my
life. Unfortunately this is something that was even a problem as a
missionary-from the first day I arrived at the Missionary Training Center to
many of the talks and meetings we had in the field, sisters were supported,
strengthened, and encouraged not only in place of the elders, but at their
expense.I understand that as missionary work is primarily focused on
men that the female minority may feel marginalized at times, but I almost fell
out of the Church altogether over this. Ironically, many outside the Church
attack and belittle it for their mistaken perception of unfair treatment against
SusanTX, as a returned missionary, I think missions are extremely helpful for
people. LDS missions are a great benefit to a young person. I was told before I
served mine that I would work harder during my mission, than I ever had. And I
did. Male missionaries are asked to work equally hard. Undergraduate
studies also require a lot of work, at least mine did. So a successful mission
helps prepare one to work hard afterward, in any endeavor. It takes two years
longer, but the long-term payback is worth it. Employers like to hire returned
missionaries, as they know the returned missionary generally will be a good
I'll add one more comment. People are starting families too young and
become financially burdened before they are able to provide a stable income,
thereby diminishing the future opportunities of their own offspring. A large
economic indicator of poverty is a woman getting pregnant at an early age. Her
child will have severely limited opportunities. Young families
working around the clock to make ends meet and bringing more mouths to the table
will typically have more economically disadvantaged children than those from
established parents already earning a stable income in a professional field.
This is a generalization, of course, so please don't reply with a story of
how your uncle was a cop in the 70s and managed to raise a fine family of five
on a civil servants salary. Times have changed and the dollar isn't
stretching as far.
sure hope the education system gets better, since the Federal Department of Ed
was created in 1979 its been all down hill. look at the statistics.not everyone needs a 4 or 6 or 8 year degree, many need to learn a trade,
masonry, plumb, engineering, manufacturing.the biggest problem is
the system has created a degrading environment for those that don't go to 4
years of higher ed to be a sociologist or counselor...we need to encourage real
world trades and manufacturing.START TEACHING FINANCE and taxation
so people can see how much money is taken in taxes and how much money it takes
to pay back all the federal and state nonsense programs!
@ marxistForcing people or companies to do what you view as the right
thing is not the answer. The U.S. used to be the manufacturing hub of the
world. We are getting beat by a number of other countries that have stepped it
up a notch - not just by low wage centers like China. Travel the world and you
are just as likely to find machinery built in Germany or Japan as in the U.S.We have gone soft on our kids. As noted by other commentators above,
many young men are allowed to spend countless hours playing video games. I have
been told by numerous teachers that the parents of the kids who are struggling
rarely show up to parent-teacher conferences. Our students put in far fewer
hours studying than in European and Asian countries - and girls out study the
boys.It is time that we turn off the TV - where men are either
portrayed as morons or womanizers, and convince our young men that they need to
work hard now so that they can support their families later. We also need men
to reach out to young men who lack a positive roll model.
There has been a cultural shift with the baby boomers and their child rearing.
Their parents, The Greatest Generation, looked at not only providing their
children with food, clothing and shelter, but also a career. Especially for
boys. It was a parental duty. My grandfather wouldn't have stood around to
see one of his sons working in a dead end, low paying service job. Too many parents now have a mentality of "you're 18, you're an
adult." They are throwing their kids to the wolves. How many parents are
paying for their children's college education? How many kids now are stuck
with low paying jobs, high student loans, or work multiple jobs to go to
college? I thought it was supposed to be about making sacrifices, so
the future generation could theoretically have a better life than the
predecessors. Now I see parents buying bigger houses, cars, furniture and TVs,
but not investing a dime for their kid's education or a business to learn.
Here is my second try. My last one said that TV rarely positively portrays a
man who is the head of the household and that men need to step up and reach out
to young men who do not have a positive male role model in their lives. I am
not sure why the DesNews would find that objectionable. Women are currently
carrying a disproportionate share of the work load in society. But for men to
be responsible they need to be taught how. While many women are doing the best
they can to teach their sons, young men need real men to show them the proper
way to treat a woman (i.e. the opposite of what they see on TV) and to take
responsibility for their families. While the economy has made it hard for many
men to provide, many simply do not try.Until young men are taught
that real manhood is cool, they are more likely to replicate the behavior they
see on TV.
I don't think businesses are concerned about religious customs at all.
They locate where there's talent and where the cost of business is low.
The world is so connected now, and with the US accounting for only a small
fraction of the world's population, it is unreasonable to expect every
young American to have the natural ability to compete on this steeper playing
The changing mix of jobs, from heavy manufacturing toward service industries,
has been devastating to men of all ages. The decline in heavy manufacturing
jobs has been in large part created by U.S. manufacturing firms abandoning
America in favor of lower wage foreign countries, particularly Mexico, India,
and China. This has created a mix of jobs in the U.S. for which males are much
less suited. The service jobs are more confining and require intuitive social
skills, where women excel. The manufacturing jobs which have been lost involve
more activity and physical strength, even in this digital era. I don't
mean to stereotype, I'm talking broad averages.To save American
men from the capitalist meat grinder, manufacturing firms must not be allowed to
always seek the lower wage option. We expect loyalty of our citizens in
general, do we not? We should expect loyalty from our corporate citizens as
Wonderfully educating editorial. That it is not apples to apples to consider
women's wages against men's until you account for education and other
factors perhaps had not been considered by many of us. Did President Obama offer
a solution, when he claimed women earn less? Would his solution be more student
loans for women? Or, would it be a law saying women and men in the same
positions must be paid the same? We would have to know what he would propose to
have done (and then study that) before really knowing what is best. I do
like all that the DesNews points out. Man's place as a breadwinner should
not be compromised.
I agree with John Charity Spring. Young men are allowed by their parents, far
too often, to play games whenever they want to. They have far too many gadgets
with access to online porn. They are spoiled, coddled and then often neglected
or abandoned. To train up a young man takes tremendous effort and time. I have
two sons and they have both required far more work than my girls. However the
rewards are also tremendous. Life has always been hard. I can't see
blaming society. This life was never intended to be perfect. We need to teach
boys to handle difficulty well. Then they will be men. Free university
education will not accomplish this. Too many "free" things bring the
opposite result. They start to feel "entitled" to this or that but then
do not develop a sense of duty to others. It takes a tremendous investment of
personal time and sweat equity to make strong men out of boys. Parents are the
the first in line to do this, not schools.
Roland Kayser,I agree that it would be nice if that were the case,
but I think that world has disappeared. Our foreign development has been
“too successful” as other countries now well occupy the space our
economy did 50 years ago.Howard Beal, Mom of 8, Irony Guy, Miss
TeachingAgreed. Though I have daughters and appreciate some of the
benefits of Title IX.Hutterite,Yes, we need to push
formal knowledge. But religious organizations can give the young men a
different kind of knowledge – that the young man is valuable and has
important God-given qualities.SusanTX,The young men and
women I know (in various denominations) who fulfill missions are generally much
more focused and derive significant benefits from their service time.Demisana,I have one of those. A wild but wonderful ride.
How interesting this editorial should come out the same week as the
"scandal" of not giving lunch to the children of parents who would not
pay. When did we start issuing credit to school kids? And whose idea was that?
Was it the food suppliers who were losing money when kids went hungry? When I
was there, if you didn't pay, you didn't eat. It didn't take too
many days of losing my lunch money to get that basic lesson. We coddle kids and
expect them to grow into responsible adults.
Leone:Sorry, you need to do your research as I have. There is a
direct correlation with Title IX and the cutting of men's olympic sports
like wrestling. 1973 is a pivotal year. It has been cited by college
presidents as the reason why these sports were cuts. That's not just a
correlation but a causation of the decision making process. Just ask Merrill
Bateman--when I asked him via email about the reason why BYU was cutting its
wrestling (and men's gymnastic program, he cited Title IX. That's
good enough for me to place the blame squarely on Title IX. Yes, college
football takes a lot of scholarships but without the quota quotient to enforce
Title IX from the Office of Civil Rights, there wouldn't be need to cut any
male programs. Before 1973, schools could scholarship unlimited amount of
players but wrestling programs existed. It is Title IX and only Title IX that
has caused wrestling programs and other men's programs to be cut.
I'm sorry some commenters seek simplistic answers to difficult problems.
This is as much a conservative-rooted problem as a liberal one. To
some extent, we have to look at our macho traditions of manly men and womanly
women. The job market has changed drastically in the last 40 years, and no
longer provides as many largely masculine jobs, union jobs, or semi-skilled
factory jobs. White-collar jobs in administration, finance and services have
boomed, however. During this period, women have learned that they be a little
less "womanly" with their own education and career. Yet, our culture
still conditions young men to look for more "manly" pursuits, to be
"Type-A" personalities, be aggressive.As the article notes,
these problems are most pronounced in our largest urban centers, where survival
among their peers requires young men to be macho. Too often, that's
incompatible with school or training, so they fail to achieve.Perhaps we can only "save men" if we teach young men it's okay to
be less "masculine," more cooperative, treat everyone as equals, and
work hard in school.
From the article:" Young men seem conditioned to regard things
other than an education as most valuable in life."That should
come as no surprise to anyone. When was the last time you read about an
engineer, a mathematician, an architect, or any of many others, signing a
5-year, $60 million contract?No, what seems to be valued is those
who can play football, basketball, baseball, or be a rap star or rock star or
actor.This is not a liberal or conservative issue, it is a cultural
one. If you want men to value education, you have to make it valuable. By
worshiping athletes, actors, and popular musicians, you do not send that
I was with you until you had to bring up the Lone Peak basketball team. This is
a very serious problem and should be addressed as such, but I can't for the
life of me understand what Lone Peak basketball has to do with it.
@Howard Beal, It's not the fault of Title IX that wrestling programs
have been dropped. It is really because of football and basketball programs
which take so many "spots" from other sports, like wrestling. If
colleges and universities were not so concerned about making money or gaining
prestige from football, they wouldn't feel compelled to have 100 players on
the football roster which would create more openings for sports like wrestling.
There are great young men in my neighborhood. Today several of them spent 3-5
minutes each teaching a portion of our priesthood lesson. Later, 6 of them went
about collecting fast offerings (money contributions) which will be used to help
the needy and poor. Earlier, many of them arrived at the church at 8 a.m. to
set up chairs and get the building ready for worship services.I
venture to bet that most of these young men are fasting today, as an expression
of their faith, and to exercise their mental, physical, and emotional control
over natural appetites.These young men are 14-15 years old. They
plan activities, delegate assignments, lead their priesthood quorum, engage in
social interactions, earn merit badges, and perform their duty to God. They are
working hard in school by taking AP classes. Today some of them told me they
are working towards college scholarships…after they serve a mission for
their church.I understand that men and boys across America are
struggling. Everyone struggles in todays world, but I would invite
all to allow the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to influence them
"Loan Peak High School"? Where is this peak where I can get a loan?
"40 percent of all babies these days are born out of wedlock."
What's the demographics of that 40%? Poverty families? Rape? Race?
Background of the mothers? Equally across America?
Boys and young men need fathers who are a positive role model. A study recently
published showed that boys get better at reading if a man works with them. I
recently retired from teaching in the elementary school, and I could see a big
difference in those children who came from intact homes and those who did not.
If the father remained actively engaged in their sons life, some of the boys did
well. I once had a boy in my classroom who was always getting into trouble. It
about drove me crazy. It wasn't until we did our program at the end of the
years and his father didn't show up that he completely fell apart. I had
never seen him cry before. It was then that I realized that most likely he had
misbehaved because he wanted attention from his father.This was an
I've got a young man. He has multiple issues, including Asperger's and
both learning disabilities and giftedness. Think Sheldon, only totally
disorganized and messy, and perhaps not quite so socially clueless (although
still very much so!). Nevertheless, our expectations include a bachelor's
degree, a mission of one kind or another, and that he will work and pay for it
all himself. He has a full time good job, and he's going to college part
time as he can afford it. I think way too many parents have just decided to
throw up their hands. You have to set expectations, teach them how the system
works, and follow through. You have to stay on top of it. We got him through
high school, we'll get him through this, and he'll wind up with a STEM
degree in a money making, desirable field where he can make a living and support
a family. Even with his issues, he'll be ahead of 60% of the other young
men out there...
How does a high school education, cut off before college to do a religious
"mission," help a young man complete college and enable him to achieve
in an economy requiring no less than a Bachelor's Degree to have any
success in life? College IS expensive, but it's mandatory for financial
success, for men AND women. Time to stop arguing about who has the advantage,
guys had it completely until 40 years ago, women are catching up. Griping
won't change that, only hard work, college education, and equal pay for all
doing the same job! The war on women continues, in spite of Title IX.
My wife and I have recently taken a vacation to the Island of Curacao. This is
one of the things that REALLY stood out to us. As far as we could tell, the men
around there did almost nothing. When driving around, you would see them
standing around and drinking beer at all hours of the day. As we talked to
natives and long time residence and even a few missionaries, that is the
prevailing male culture there. The men are in the mindset of doing as little as
possible to get by. They also seem to try to father kids that they have no
intention of raising. The Women of that island are the real driving force from
what we heard and what we could see. I certainly pray that the men
of this country does not wander down that road.
That is an interesting editorial. The comments about that editorial are just as
interesting. Most people "get" the fact that society has changed the
roles of men and women. Some "elitist" decided that the proper role of
both men and women was to spend their lives chasing money. Some
"elitist" decided that families were for "sissys" and that
nurturing children was the job of the State, where that nurturing would take
place in day-care and eventually in the school room.That
"elitist" was wrong; but, correcting those ideas will take personal
effort; correcting those ideas will require strong families; correcting those
ideas will require that fathers and mothers tell their sons that it is time to
leave the comfort of the nest and that they must assume their proper role of
husband and father in society.Government has told men that if they
have sexual intercourse, that they don't need to shoulder the
responsibility of fatherhood. Government tells them that abortion is the first
answer and that if abortion is rejected that welfare to the mother is the next
answer.Strong families must reject government intrusion.
In 2013 there were 17 members of the Utah legislature that were women.
That's 16%. Women hold 99 of the 535 seats in congress. 69 women are
admirals or generals (~7%). Approximately 5% of Fortune 500 CEO's are
women.Every major statistic shows men in the majority. How can men
be so discriminated against?
Education is the key to success. A couple of years ago a former teacher
developed a classroom program to teach middle school kids the value of how to
manage their money. It has been accepted at schools across the nation. She
brought it to my school district and it was reviewed with resounding complements
and praised as something that really filled a learning gap in simple economics
which our students need. It never came back the next year it didn't return.
When I asked why I was told it was too expensive and the money would be better
used on a soccer field. I guess it is more important to learn to kick a ball
around than to balance your checkbook.
Let's not handle this issue with kid gloves. Let's tell it like it
is. Young men are largely unproductive members of society because that is what
they have been trained to be.Modern parents have spoiled and
indulged their boys to the point that the boys are not expected to do anything
that is the least bit hard. This is then reinforced by the public schools which
have already lowered curriculum and expectations to the level of the least
common denominator.This is all supplemented by the left-wing
entertainment industry which teaches that a man is not a man unless he engages
in wanton, uncontrolled sexuality. This will be on full display during the
commercials and half time show of the Super Bowl.Society as a whole
should be condemned for allowing young men to be such wasteful beings.
Reformation must come before it is too late.
Instead of trying to make this another opportunity to push religion, let's
push knowledge. Knowledge and intelligence are valuable, and the women of our
society seem to have a better grasp on this than the men. That, and men have
abandoned its' pursuit.It's not necessarily mens' fault; our
society heaps scorn on smart people but lauds the sports participant, jock, and
warmonger. Are we celebrating creative arts or electrical engineering today. No,
we're watching football. Is football really important? No.
Everybody agrees that education is the key to success for young men. But we have
made it virtually impossible for young men to afford going to college. It's
breathtaking how much $$$ you have to put out when you have little or no income
in the first place. What we could use right now is a free public university
system. Of course Republicans would have a cerebral embolism if anyone were to
While there are many common sense elements of feminism - it is unfortunately
based upon a clear and blatant lie: the assumption that biology does not matter
and that men and women are merely persons with parts.Until that
basic hate is vigorously confronted and expunged - both men and women will
To lump all men together is a mistake. What socio-economic classes and races
are skewing the statistics one way or the other.I've always
thought that one of the consequences of the women's liberation movement was
the fact that it can emasculate men at the same time. There was no movement for
men at the same time to adjust to the new ways. Men are expected to
provide for their families. When they can't do that or are stopped from
doing so without an alternative we will see problems and breakdowns in
Good article--until you get to the last paragraph "Governments must..."
Since when did government solve ANY problem--ever? Governments ARE the problem;
at least a good-sized portion of it. If the problem is to be solved, it will
only be solved when people realize that and entire culture based upon free and
easy sex is perhaps the biggest issue: people are not getting married and
creating strong family units. That, and that ONLY will ever solve the problem.
And sorry, gay-marriage-advocates: your life style "just ain't gonna do
it, neither", so-called "marriage" notwithstanding. When strong
family units cease to exist, we see deterioration is every single aspect of
society: the family is the "atom" of society and all the
family-destroying tendencies of modern society are radioactive decay.
The root problem is the decades long liberal disease of "political
correctness" which has undermined multiple traditional values which built
strong families, a moral society, and provided economic opportunity for those
who worked hard and followed the rules.Instinctive and inherent
gender roles have been denigrated and attacked.The very institution of
marriage has been attacked.The family unit as a prerequisite for child
bearing has been attacked.The concept of reward for work has been
attacked,and replaced by an entitlement mentality.Schools have shifted
from teaching fundamental facts and skills into "feel good indoctrination
centers" where everyone is a winner and no one excels. In short,
liberalism has destroyed American men and families in order to make people
dependent on liberal government programs and sustain liberals in power. It
worked.The solution is to dismantle the liberal programs and restore
traditional values. But, we have spent so much leaving our country so deep in
debt, and so many people drowned in entitlement mentality that it may not be
possible to recover.
I think that there is something very special about challenging and mentoring
young men to do HARD THINGS, to rise to difficult challenges, and be MEN OF GOD.
Men, (my husband included) like to be challenged to be courageous and be
encouraged by others, (including their wives) to rise and conquer difficult
challenges in their lives. It takes strong leaders, and mentors to hold them to
the bar of righteous manhood. I applaud all the young men who stand firm in
As a mother of five sons, this issue has been preying on my mind for years now.
I see so many public efforts to promote my daughters, to encourage their
education and achievement, but so little for my boys. It's as
if society has forgotten that the inequalities of the 1960s were fifty years
ago, and the pendulum has swung the other way. But we have such a hard time
moving on here in America, that we assume males still have all the
advantages.They don't.My husband and I try to
counter the marginalization of men we see all over the media and in public
schooling, but it's a tough, tough battle, even with two parents. I'm grateful more people are noticing that BOTH sexes need encouragement.
We seems to naturally ignore one when we obsess over the other. Balance is
crucial for a balanced society.
The so called "war on women" and pay inequality that Obama and the Demos
loves to tout has been debunked! Obama loses what little credibility he still
Wrestling is a great outlet for young men but since Title IX in 1973 over 200
programs dropped the sport including in our state BYU, Utah, Utah State, SUU,
Snow College and Weber. This is just one example among many where the
educational establishment and social engineering to a certain extent has and is
attacking the male.But since a teacher salary is so low, males tend
to avoid the profession today. Male teachers are disappearing across the nation
in secondary schools and are pretty much an endangered species at the elementary
level. This leaves a dearth of male role models in our schools. For
those male students in schools, the institution is best structured for female
students. Outdoor activity and play is lessened in favor of students following
directions and being quiet. Finally, the male is under assault in
our media. Take a look at our television programs. All too many males and
fathers are portrayed as clueless and useless. I think this makes a difference
in the psyche of our boys and young men in combination of these factors noted
50 years ago a young man graduating from high school had a reasonable chance of
earning enough money on his won to raise a family and buy a house. So that is
exactly what they did. A high school graduate to day has a reasonable chance of
a part time job behind the counter at Wendy's with little chance to earn a
decent living. So they stay in their parent's basement.If
working class men had the same economic opportunities that their fathers and
grandfathers did, many of our social problems would solve themselves.