Pat Robertson famously laid responsibility for some recent hurricanes on the
"gay agenda." Maybe if we want rain, instead of fasting and praying,
Utahns should drop the appeal of the Kitchen v. Herbert case. Tropical
depression and six inches of rainfall, here we come!
CatsDoes god require a certain amount of prayers before he opens up
the heavens and lets rain fall? I mean the whole thing seems like a ridiculous
"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."Naysayers need not join in.
I think the Farm Bureau should consider the amount of water being used by
Utah's agriculture industry. About 85% of Utah's water use is used by
agriculture. Sometimes I question how they use the water. For example, after
numerous wet years since 2005, during the summer of 2012, water released from
Jordanelle Reservoir was at historic highs - never since the dam had been built
had so much water been released during that summer. Now, we regret having so
much water released that year - it should have been conserved - at least normal
amounts should have been released that year conserving more water for the
drought years of 2013 and 2014 (assuming things continue this year.)
They do know that it is the super bowl this Sunday, right? I doubt people will
be fasting or going to church.
Dear Brahmabull:Sometimes God requires us to humble ourselves and
ask for his help. We don't always get handed things. Sometimes we need to
be reminded of our dependence on Him.
Two thoughts:1. I hope they don't blame meteorologists for getting
forecasts wrong if they think that prayer can change the weather.2. I
wonder how many of them believe anthropogenic climate change is occurred as
they're trying to perform an action in the hope of having a changed
Why would praying and fasting help? Doesn't god already know we need rain?
Some years are wet, some are dry, and some are average. If people pray and fast
of course moisture will come.... eventually, and in the same timeframe it would
have come had the prayers not been offered.
It has been shown that we can make better use of our scare and precious
resources if we humans would cut back significantly on our consumption of meat.
I, for one, don't intend to pray that ranchers have more feed (or less
expensive feed) for their cattle, as I feel strongly that the inefficiency
inherent in the cattle-and-pigs-for human-food industry wastes billions of
gallons of water and millions upon millions of bushels of food that could -
should - be put to better use as food for people.
Scientist, I feel for you. I really do. It feels awful to be grumpy and cynical
about so many things. There is absolutely no harm in exercising a little faith.
It might even put a genuinely happy smile on your face. I double dog dare you to
This brings to mind something Mark Twain wrote in his short piece, "The War
Prayer." "Ponder this -- keep it in mind. If you would
beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse
upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your
crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some
neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it. "
"Snow this week did nothing to help with the abnormally dry conditions that
continue to grip the state." Scientifically and logically, that's not
Thank you for asking, yes we will fast and pray today and tomorrow.
I will fast and pray that God will bless us with the good sense to use wisely
the water he has provided.
I thank all the true scientists who have come forward to express their faith in
God. Sometimes bitterness keeps people from being willing to humble themselves
and accept truth. I don't think there is really any conflict between
science and faith. Science can help us understand many things but not all. Our
only hope to find the ultimate truth is with God.BTW, I also
remember the fast that took place in the seventies. The situation was
desperate. We had a statewide fast and within a few days it began to pour. It
rained so much that we almost got too much. It was a miracle and those who
witnessed it knew it.
@BoringGuy. Science and religion do mix. A lot of theoretical physics is built
on faith - we have a feeling that something might be right. Next we start to
investigate, do mathematical calculations and work with observations. Often we
are wrong, and we adjust our theory. We do the same when we are searching for
God. We too have observations and we too find confirmations (from God) that we
are going in the right or wrong direction. A Ph.D is a doctorate in Philosophy
@boringguy"Religion asks people to believe in something, without
evidence, based on faith. Science requires empirical evidence before something
can be true".Nothing could be further from the truth. Religious
people believe what they believe because of vast amount of evidence and
spiritual experience. Modern man has tried to denigrate religious experience
and invalidate it because they don't understand it. Science
must be testable by methods of science. Belief in God is testable by billions of
mankind by personal experience and knowledge based on spiritual communion.
Spirituality is impossible to disprove.
Heh, why not? What have you got to loose, except your pride if you don't
believe. ;) You don't even have to tell anyone else you did it if you
don't want to!
@scientist,I think you opened up a can of worms with your comments.
If people believe praying works, let them believe that. They have had
experiences that have affirmed those beliefs, whether those experiences can be
truthfully attributable to a supernatural being is anyone's guess. A Hindu
will firmly believe that Lord Shiva may end a drought. A Catholic may pray to
Mary or a patron Saint to intercede in order to end a drought. A Jew may pray
to Elohim, a Muslim may pray to Allah (a derivative of Elohim), or a Baptist to
Jesus. Whatever the case, there are two things that rankle people more than
anything and that is Religion and Politics. Both are man made creations and
both provide some sort of meaning, purpose, and guidebook to life. Your attempt
to persuade them to atheism just entrenches them further. Their attempt to
persuade you to believe in the supernatural does just the same. Neither you are
them are right or wrong. You can attribute every raindrop to the natural state
of the world, while they can attribute every rain drop to God. It doesn't
really matter. We just need rain.
I'm thinking we should go with the rain dance instead. It would be just as
effective in bringing about rain and nobody would have to starve themselves.The exercise people would get would be a positive outcome at least.
Science and religion generally do not mix. Religion asks people to believe in
something, without evidence, based on faith. Science requires empirical evidence
before something can be true.Science doesn't claim there is not
higher power .... just that tangible evidence is needed before it can be
confirmed as fact.
Some medium-term things Utah can do is continue to move away from coal- and
gas-fired electricity. Both are significant users of water to produce the steam
for turbine generators. As Utah moves toward water-free energy sources, such as
wind and solar, this will do much to reduce Utah/Western water needs.As the governor noted, we'll double our population within the next couple
of decades, and everyone will need water for food, bathing, watering their
Kentucky Bluegrass lawns, to wash their cars and hose down the driveways, etc.
We need to drastically cut water consumption to accommodate all those new people
and their "freedom" use of water as they see fit. Another
issue is nuclear power. With the drive to build Utah's first nuke plant,
that too is a big water guzzler. Perhaps we should have second thoughts...
Scientist,As a scientist myself I respect your right to believe there is
no God. Do not claim that it is somehow scientifically proven. My scientific
observations and discoveries have in no way suggested that there is no God. I
have had many more experiences and observations that suggest that there is a
god. The sooner we learn that we know next to nothing, the better off we are in
@scientist. I'm a scientist too (Ph.D in Physics) and I can guarantee you,
prayer works, even when I do my research. I recommend that you test it the
scientific way, and you will find out that it works better than bottles of wine
or hard liquor, which are used during conferences.
@Scientist:"Of all the human actions that could directly or indirectly
affect the weather, we might as well ask everyone to spit into the wind as to
fast and pray for rain. Both are equally ineffective."Ok
don't pray. In 1976-1977 we had a dry winter and there was a statewide
fast and prayer. The week later it began to rain. We had a record wet
spring.It has worked before.I am a scientist too. I
think that scientists need to be very humble people. Science, at best, will
never have more than 25% of the answers. Even if we had the other 75% we would
not have the terminology to describe it.
Almost as predictable as cold air in the Utah winter is a comment by scientist
on a religious or spiritual matter.A sad reflection of an empty life
void of the respect that comes from knowing Gods love for us.
As I'm sure you all know, the global warming climate models predict the
American southwest, including the Great Basin, will dry up. California is
experiencing the worse drought in its history. Climate change seems to be
happening faster that any of the models predicted. I don't get any
satisfaction from saying this, but maybe we need to take global warming
seriously. Unfortunately, it may already be to late, in which case we must make
the best of it, and yes, pray.
Of all the human actions that could directly or indirectly affect the weather,
we might as well ask everyone to spit into the wind as to fast and pray for
rain. Both are equally ineffective.
The rain and snow this week did nothing? Well, it certainly helped even though
it didn't put an end to the drought. In fact, one storm cannot be expected
to end the drought, but it certainly is better than having no storm. Now, we
need to have more of them, but lets not ask God to send one storm that would end
the drought by itself, because that would be a disaster in and of itself.
I am concerned that this is the 2nd or 3rd winter with abnormally low snow
levels. I believe that faith and prayer can make a difference because I believe
we are children of a loving Heavenly Father who wants to bless us. But I am
also concerned about our general attitude. When it does snow I hear everyone
complaining that they have to drive in it, shovel it, bundle up against the
cold, walk in it, etc. Basically demonstrating ingratitude for something that
is our lifeblood here in the desert state of Utah. I hope we can
gratefully receive, and acknowledge from where our blessings come.