Mike,You may be able to convince yourself that you appreciate
teachers, but I am not really buying it. Your hostility toward teachers is
coming through loud and clear. I would suggest that if your job is as bad as you
claim, and mine is as good as you claim maybe you should quit your job and
become a teacher.If you read my posts you will realize that I did
not complain about my salary or about my pension. I did not say that the
Governor cheated me. My complaint is the Governors inability to be truthful in
his state of the state speech giving the public the impression that he provided
61 million dollars for a pay raise. I do my very best to provide
students with an education so that they can have a better life. Yes tax money
pays my salary. One big difference between you and I is that I respect all
people who work hard and provide a service whether they work in the private
sector or the public sector. And by the the way if you are paying
over 60% of your income to the government I would suggest your find a better tax
Fred44,I'll trade my salary and my pension for yours any day.
I have NOTHING in my pension plan, not because I don't need a pension, but
because I am self-employed and pay more than 60% of my GROSS income to taxes,
Federal, State, sales, FICA, gasoline, property and all of the hidden taxes that
plague us. My "salary" is also near zero because most of my customers
have lost their businesses due to the fact that citizens cannot buy things other
than absolute necessities.Your salary and your pension are paid by
people like me. Yes, I do appreciate teachers, but until a teacher is willing
to pay into my "pension fund", until a teacher is willing to be taxed to
pay my wage, I won't lose much sleep over the fact that teachers are paid
more than the people in the private sector who pay their wages and that they get
a pension when most of us will work until the day we die.The
Governor did not cheat you. You are just one of the public employees that the
private sector feeds, clothes and houses.
Mike,I understand the difference between how taxes are taken from my
check and how they are taken from someone who is self employed but thanks anyway
for the lecture.My pension is future income, and is part of my
contract. The additional money put into the state retirement fund did not
increase my pension. It increased the amount of money that the URS has to work
with to manage retirement accounts for state employees. We can argue over
whether the additional money from the districts is needed, but that is a
different argument. The Governor said he put 61 million dollars in
the budget for "teacher salary" increases. That is not pension
increases, that is not benefit increases, that is "salary" increases.
Since he did not do that, and he knows he did not do that, then that would be a
lie, an untruth, a fib, or whatever you would like to call it. He also knows
that even the 20 million that will not go to retirement will not go directly to
teachers, there are many other areas that will chew up that money, so yes he did
Now I guess Becky Lockhart understands the price of speaking her mind regarding
Utah's Liquor Laws.
Fred,Do you think that a pension plan should be fully funded, or
would you rather have your retirement eliminated? A teacher's pension is
income. It is part of the teacher's pay package. Whether the teacher gets
that money the month he earns it or whether he allows that money to be set aside
for his retirement, it is part of his wage. Surely a teacher
understands the basic concept of gross pay vs take home pay. We would all like
to take home our gross pay. We would like to tell the Federal Government that
we don't consider FICA, Medicare, and all of the other
"contributions" part of our gross pay, after all, if FICA is calculated
on the GROSS, but we never receive the GROSS, why should we be taxed BEFORE FICA
is deducted? Most of us have less than 40% of our gross income to pay our bills,
after deducting federal taxes, state taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes,
sales taxes and all of the taxes that are tacked on when we buy goods or
services.The Governor did not lie. You misunderstand wages and
The Governor lied and he knows he lied to the people of the state of Utah when
he said he has 61 million dollars in his budget for teacher pay raises. He
increased the WPU not teachers salaries by 61 million dollars. Districts will
be giving 40 million of that right back to the state because of a law five years
ago requiring a larger contribution from districts to the state retirement fund.
After districts pay increased costs for transportation, power, consumables,
etc. etc., then if there is anything left they will give the teachers a little
raise. If the Governor really wanted teachers to have a pay raise,
he would have placed a line item specifically in his budget with a specific
dollar value for that purpose. He did not do that, so what he would like to do
is APPEAR to have given a raise without actually having to do it.Not
very honest in my book.
@ 2 bit, yes, Congress won't deliver. This is the most ineffective, least
productive Congress in at least the past 70 years. Truman's Do-Nothing
Congress was enormously productive compared to this disaster.
"Fighting the gay marriage ban is a fools' errand,..."I
am assuming you meant to say that fighting FOR the gay marriage ban is a
fools' errand.I so disagree with that sentiment. It is
imperative that we(Utah) fight it. I believe that the day is coming that we
will see gay marriage universally accepted. I don't say that from a
sympathetic stance (as I am not) but from a sense of inevitability. I would think that in order to gain acceptance from the majority, proponents
of SSM would welcome this opportunity that Utah has to put the best arguments
forward before the SCOTUS and get a ruling. This ruling would likely apply to
all states. Then the advocates of SSM can use the ruling as a defense for the
social change. The lack of this fair fight will simply foster resentment and
backlash simply because of the underhanded way the SSM Proponents got their way
(Judicial activism and legal trickery)The real question I would pose
here is "What are the proponents of SSM afraid of?"They
should welcome this challenge!
Re: "@ 2 bits, I thought President Obama's speech was down to earth,
positive and constructive. He even cracked some jokes and showed his human side.
(Esquire)...Whatever... I'm still not convinced he's
human. (just kidding)===If you liked it... that's
great. I thought it was lofty, confrontational, and promised things HE
can't deliver. He was promising what CONGRESS will do.===His job as a leader and executive, is to share his vision. He did
that. Now it's up to us (or Congress for us) to make his vision
happen.With the tone in Washington today... I don't know if
that's possible.And it's not just Obama's fault. But
it's a little his fault. He did promise to end "Washington politics
as usual" and the minute he got in the White House (with his super-majority)
just turned up the heat on "Washington politics as usual" about 1000
degrees.===Didn't say Obama's wasn't a
good speech. Just a little lofty. I thought the Governor's was more
down-to-earth and things he could actually do (except replacing all the school
buses). But again... just my opinion.
The gov's blueprint utterly ignores the fact that Utah's students are
losing ground on every national measure. Utah Republicans simply won't pay
the price for educational excellence in Utah. I don't know their
motivations, but I could suggest a few....
Read the Governor's speech. It is only six pages long. He
used his opportunity to share with us a vision of what Utah can be if we work
together. He did not tell us that government would solve our problems, but that
government would do those things that it is charged with doing so that we can
solve our own problems (if you read his comments about the need for a good
education that leads to a good job). He talked about using existing technology
to improve air quality - technology that is available now.He said,
"This debate should not be about federal dollars versus state dollars. They
are all taxpayer dollars. Every dollar the government spends comes from the
people, and whatever we do in Utah should be in the best interests of the
people of Utah."He gets it. He knows who pays for government,
Federal or State.He knows the definition of "marriage" and
"family" and he will defend those institutions - without contention -
because those institutions are the bedrock of society.Read his
speech. Consider his vision.
@ 2 bits, I thought President Obama's speech was down to earth, positive
and constructive. Did you even listen to it? He even cracked some jokes and
showed his human side.The Governor shows that one can be
conservative and also pragmatic, even if you disagree with him on certain
issues. The same can be said about most liberal Governors. Pragmatism is the
key, not ideological extremism favored by the likes of the Tea Party. Or GOP
extremists who censured John McCain. They will lose rather than bend. They are
really no different than liberal extremists who undermined Humphrey in 1968, or
many non-Mormon Democrats in Utah who won't support LDS Democrats.
Pragmatism and compromise has been the blueprint for a stable nation, and I
appreciate leaders who take that approach.
A little more down-to-earth than the President's speech... don't ya
"His pledge to work with lawmakers to “create a Utah model for fixing
this hole in the safety net,” referring to whether to expand Medicaid
coverage, signals that compassion will not be lost in the pursuit of fiscal
responsibility." I was hoping for a firm statement on Utah's
participation the ACA. He ducked it.
Well of course its a good blueprint! Does that surprise anyone? The DesNews is
to Governor Herbert what MSNBC is to President Obama....cheerleaders.
Fighting the gay marriage ban is a fools' errand, and a waste of every
nickel put at it. And a 'delightful' notion to change the state tree?
Are you sure this guy haa grip on what's important?