Comments about ‘BYU football: Recruits make their way to Provo for official visits’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 29 2014 7:25 p.m. MST

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Black&Blue
St George, Utah

reasonableUTE,

No realistic BYU fan actually believes BYU is a better team than Utah head to head. Utah is always better prepared, better coached, and yes, has better athletes.
But it is important to keep in mind that teams usually progress as the season goes on. If the Holy War was played in November, the results could easily go the other way. Not an excuse, but you have to look at the finished product each season as well as the head to head to determine who was in-fact the better team overall. Utah did play a grueling schedule, but it's not like BYU's schedule was a walk in the park, it was also a top 30 schedule much tougher than many BCS teams face.

And as far as recruiting goes, it appears BYU is gaining momentum with each class while Utah seems to be losing momentum. The Utes have lost 2 big commitments in the last couple weeks, one to Boise St. and one in appears to Nebraska or Oklahoma. While BYU is retaining top recruits despite offers from elite programs (Fred Warner, Nick Kurtz).

Indy
St George, Utah

It's cute to see all the concerned Ute fans on these boards week in and week out.

But shouldn't you be worried about your own football program? With wins, recruiting, and relevance steeply declining how can you hope to be competitive? Especially without a win over BYU to keep that fragile Ute ego intact? Then there is the fact that you will be without your head coach and probably entire coaching staff this time next year.... awwww, now I feel bad. I guess you guys can spend as much time on these boards as you need to if it will help you cope with reality.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ reasonableUTE:

I thought you were talking about how the in-state teams are overall... and not just on one particular game a season. So according to you, Utah is definitely a better team than Stanford, since they beat that one game during the season. Do you or any reasonable person actually believe that? Of course not! That's why we look at the big picture in deciding who is best.

You are talking about a single battle (the only thing you've got). I'm talking about the season long war. Utah won the former, BYU usually wins the latter.

In light of that, and according to almost all national ranking services, BYU is usually and consistently ranked higher and usually finishes most seasons ranked better than Utah. That's the bottom line and the most telling fact.

I will concede to you that USU is a better team than Utah... as you insinuated. And I'd say they were over BYU too, had BYU barely beat the Aggies. But they dominated them by a wider margin than any other team did all season long. And BYU finished ranked higher than them, also. So again, it's still BYU.

Alex T
Murray, UT

@reasonableUTE

A simple rivalry game doesn't determine who the best team in the state is. Get real here. BYU could be ranked #1 in the AP, while Utah could go 0-11, have the worst SOS in the country, yet still manage a victory in Provo. Why? Because it is a rivalry. ANYTHING can happen. One game does not determine a season. The Utes upset Stanford. Awesome game by the way. Does that make them better than the Pac-12 champion? Most Ute fans would like to think so.

Congrats on winning 4 games in a row. Clearly proving that Kyle Whittingham knows how to prepare for the rivalry game, while Bronco obviously doesn't.

STOP trying to pull this bogus argument that the Utes are the better program. Let's see a winning season and a bowl invite before you bring this up again. Best of luck to your head coach in the hopes of keeping his job this year.

Objectified
Tooele, UT

@ reasonableUte:

Your arguments seem to keep forgetting that upsets happen in sports. You keep basing your entire argument on one game a season. If that's all you have to hang your hat on, then so be it. But few are buying into it.

Ranking services take into consideration multiple, objective, quantifiable criteria each and every week of the season to determine how all teams are doing compared to all other college teams in the country. That negates upsets.

That's the reason nobody suddenly ranked Utah better than Stanford when Utah upset them. Every reasonable (apparently you're not) college football fan recognized that Utah was better than Stanford that one day, but not a better team overall. And this entire argument is about who finished the season as the best in-state college football team.

So based on objective national rankings, it's:
1. USU
2. BYU
3. Utah

However, you did manage to beat out Weber.

@ Brave Sir Robin:

What a silly statement. I'm pretty sure everyone else reading and commenting here knows we're talking about college football. As such, you're not forcing anyone to admit to anything. Try a little harder to keep up.

Buck49
Washington, UT

How many times have we seen teams that have beaten other teams that are ranked, still ahead of them in the polls. Obviously the voters in the polls consider them the better team.

ekute
Layton, UT

It's ok for the byu "fans" to think that they're a better team overall, as long as we keep beating them.

Buck49
Washington, UT

How many times have seen teams that beat other teams in the polls still behind them in the polls? Obviously the pollsters think that one game was a fluke and that the team that lost was the better team.

reasonableUTE
Provo, UT

@ Alex T

if Utah beat byu they wouldn't be 0-11

@ Tater, if I can't have it both ways, you can't either.

The difference between your argument and mine is that Utah and Stanford play in the same conference, so comparing their schedules is much more practical. There is no comparison between... nevermind, I don't even know why I bother trying to reason with byu fans.

I really shouldn't care what byu fans think as long as they keep losing to my team.

Objectified
Tooele, UT

reasonableUte:

According to the arguments you've been making here online, head-to-head games are all that's needed to determine the better team.

If that were actually true, then consider this:

- Stanford beat Oregon, so Stanford is the better than Oregon.
- Utah beat Stanford, so Utah is better than both Stanford and Oregon...

... that is, according to your logic.

Isn't it obvious how unreasonable it is to base everything on one head-to-head game per year in deciding who the better team is? Upsets happen to most teams during most seasons. But that does NOT mean the team doing the upsetting is the better team... except on that single day, but not overall. Otherwise, everyone from Stanford should still be paying homage to Utah.

It's very possible one of Utah's in-state single-score wins was an upset.
It should be obvious why national rankings are more important.

This concept seems so simple and obvious. I don't see how it can evade you so easily. Unless, that is the only argument you can make in behalf of the Utes. In that case, you need to consider the bias in your argument.

IDC
Boise, ID

Can't wait to see these guys walk onto the field for BYU. I am also very hopeful that our DB's get healthy. Go Cougars!

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Utah fans...go on Colorado boards and argue with them about who's better. They're your new rival remember? BYU fans just don't care about U anymore. The next two years we will have our sights set on other things while U continue to flounder, lose your HC, and enjoy another couch potato bowl. I'm sure Colorado would love to hear from you, or even Stanford fans. Ya go talk to the Cardinal fans about how you're better than they are after beating them. I'm sure they need a good laugh after their tough loss in the Rose Bowl.

Ed Grady
Idaho Falls, ID

These kids will face the challenge of little down time in December due to bowl game participation. If they need that extra time in December to study for finals perhaps they should check out another program in Utah.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ reasonableUTE:

So you feel you can't reason with BYU fans... simply because they won't agree with you about Utah.

But on the same token, it appears BYU fans can't reason with you, either. Several have made some good, germane points in reply to your initial inimical comment. And yet you keep replying with a fervid, minatory attitude and won't concede anything... no matter how much common sense the counter-arguments make.

If a person can't be open enough to at least try see other people's points of view, then perhaps it's best to not keep participating in the dialog... or as you said "nevermind". After all, one of the new rules is that comments have to contribute to the ongoing dialog in a positive way and not be contentious.

Just something to thing about for next time a BYU article is posted and a Ute fan tries make it about Utah instead.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

There is certainly nothing wrong with a kid wanting the "byu experience"

But recruits rarely pick the byu football team for, well, football. Bronco rarely gets guys drafted. Bronco has never beaten an end of season top 10 team, he's never sniffed a big time bowl game, he can't beat his rival, and he has less than a .200 record against top 25 teams. Again, nothing wrong with wanting the "unique experience" of going to byu. But usually football is not the reason players pick byu, and the football team has never had a truly amazing year under Bronco with no reason to think there will be one under Bronco.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

byu fans would like to believe recruiting is subjective and that stars don't matter. Nick Saban would disagree as he has among the highest star recruiting classes ever year and has one of the best teams every year too.

Byu fans also like to say "stars don't guarantee wins" in attempt to convince themselves Bronco can turn very average "atheltes" into national title players. Its true, stars don't guarantee wins. Here is a list of other things that don't guarantee wins:

Good coaching
Fast players
Strong players
Practicing
Lifting weights
Watching film
Scoring lots of points
Good nutrition

Do these guarantee wins?

No?

do they matter?

Absolutely

BeSmart
Cheyenne, WY

I agree CB
No team in Utah will ever compete with the top teams in recruiting.
Alabama this year averages 4.0 stars
BYU 2.71
Utah 2.52
(according to scout)
Truth is Utah and BYU can be good teams but a National Title for either of them is out of the question.
USC and Colorado are the only two teams in the Pac-12 to win in the last 50 years.
Crazy that USC and BYU are the two teams in the last 50 years to win west of the rockies.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ Chris B:

Why do you spend so much time analyzing and often trying to speak for BYU fans, and even for their recruits and their motives. What exactly is your motive?

Is it some backdoor approach to try to make Utah look or seem better?
Not working.

Before knocking Bronco too much, please consider...

- He's never had a losing season. (How does Utah compare?)
- He's gone to a bowl game each season as head coach. (How does Utah compare?)
- His teams usually finish nationally ranked higher than all other instate teams... more times than not. (How does Utah compare?)
- His football teams play on national television more than any other instate team (How does Utah compare?)
- His teams have had more first round NFL picks than Utah in the past 3 years and will probably put more players in the NFL this year. (How does Utah compare?)

It's obvious that most BYU recruits pick BYU for it's winning tradition. The "BYU experience" is just a bonus over other schools.

BTW: BYU football does every single item on your list and is currently beating Utah in the stars category this year.

BeSmart
Cheyenne, WY

Correction
Washington won in the early 90s

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Tator,

"His teams have had more first round NFL picks than Utah in the past 3 years and will probably put more players in the NFL this year. (How does Utah compare?)"

You sure about that pal?

byu has Ziggy in the past 3 years. Utah has Star.

Since when was 1 more than 1?

How many kids has Bronco had drafted in his time at byu? I honestly don't know - Kehl, Collie, Ziggy, which am I missing? Bronco has 3-4 guys drafted in his entire time at BYU? Whittingham had 6 nfl draft picks in 2010.

In one year Whittingham had 6 guys drafted
In Bronco's entire time at byu he's had 3? Maybe 4 or 5 if I'm forgetting some?

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