Zona not looking like all that anymore, won't be long before they lose. The
Pac is weak sauce
@ Crowdid you happen to hear why Kuresa said BYU is not getting them in
the pros?He said it is not recruiting it is connections.He used Doug
Jolley and Johnny Harline as examples.Way to spin it though.
@ Crowit is mute? do you mean moot?please do explain how the gap is
getting wider?Recruiting in football and basketball? NopeWinning on
the field in football yes I will say that but 7 points is not a large gap.Basketball 2 victories in 9 years with BYUs worst team in who knows how long?
I wouldn't say so.4 years in a row is not that long bud. I agree Utah has more money and their recruiting has improved, but their
recruiting in football has gone down every year since they joined the Pac?Utah's program is not even close to being better than the program I was
with.It will never happen, I did not attend the Y or the U and my school
is better in athletics and academics than both.
@ be smart your argument is mute its all done on the field Utah still the better
program and the gap is getting wider
@ Besmart Utah destroyed Alabama with their 2.5 star athletes. Once again
Utah's recruiting class is ranked higher then byu's it does not matter
about the class size or star system. Utah knows how to take those 2.5 stars and
turn them into NFL talent. Even byu's Kuresa said on the radio (1280) that
byu is going to continue to lose out on the top LDS talent because Bronco cant
develop the talent and they are not placing players into the NFL. Utah will
start to win once they figure out what offense they are going to run. Utah was
very close in a lot of games in the PAC and they will only get better. But again
thanks for trying to play with the Utah in football and basketball this year.
@ CrowA ranking is based off total points for a class Utah has 21
commitments from athletes and they in turn are worth a certain amount of
points.For simplicity lets say 2 star recruits are worth 10 points, 3 star
15 points, and 4 stars 20I will include Utahs unranked commit as a 2
starUtah 1-4star 10 3-stars 10-2 stars equals 270 points or 12.9 points
per recruitBYU 1-4 star 8 3-stars 5-2stars equals 200 points or 15 points
each.Utah is ranked higher than BYU because of class size, but BYU's
talent is higher.Tennesee star rankings is not that high compared to other
SEC teams but they have 34 commits so they are the second ranked class.It
is basic math, and I don't agree with the star systemQuoting the most
famous of Ute fans " stars do matter Alabama doesn't win with 2.5
@besmart Utah is 59th byu 76th obviously star rankings do not matter because
Utahs recruiting class is ranked much higher than your mighty cougars. All that
matters is if they can contribute on the field and Utah has done a great job in
evaluating talent. Case in point Eric Weddle, Alex Smith both 2 stars and Sunday
both were playing in the pro bowl and both made major contributions to Utah.
Utah also has the third highest amount of players in the NFL for all PAC12
schools byu could not even recognize Anzog. I have more faith in the coaches
evaluation then some publications star system
@ CrowI was talking about star ranking not class ranks. That is total
points for a class BYU only has around 15 scholarships available while Utah has
20 some odd so Utah will lead in total points.The average star ranking
which is CB favorite on scout.com has BYU at a 2.71 and Utah at a 2.51 tied with
Colorado for last in the Pac now.Kenyon Frison decommited so it killed
their star average.Please read and understand the full comment before
@besmart Actually Utah's ranking is 10th in the PAC and 59th overall. But
it is still better than byus ranking 76th overall. If byu was in the PAC they
would be dead last in the recruiting rankings. The gap continues to grow between
Utah and byu.
@ jarka-rus7,000 is bigger than all of the WCC arena's, save
the bleacher palace in Provo...10,000 is a stadium.2,000 is a
high school gym.
@CougarSunDevilI guarantee, you won't hear anyone else in the
PAC 12 refer to PAC-12 teams 'conference ranking' to describe how
challenging of a game it is/was.---------Huh? "The Bruins survived a fierce second-half push by California for a 76-64
victory Sunday was certainly noteworthy. That it left them tied with the Golden
Bears for second place in the Pac-12 Conference was a resume builder." Source: UCLA wins and gets ready for some road work (LA Times)You make a claim that Arizona overlooked Utah, then you ignore the top teams
in the conference that Utah beat and was able to compete against? I
think you're just mad bro that ASU got beat by 23 and Utah only by 9 at
@cougarsundevil I know that you live in the bubble and don't get out much
but Utah is well known for their basketball tradition across the nation. You
just need to read more of the national publications to know what is being said
about Utahs resurgent's this year. Utahs program started 6 years
after byus they are the 15th winingest program. They are the only program who
can claim they won a championship in the AAU, NIT, and NCAA tournaments. The
have been to the NCAA Championship and won once, were runners up 1 time,Final
Four 4times, Elite 8 6 times, Sweet 16 15 times,and have 36 conference titles.
How many times has byu been to the final four or championship game. Can you say
never. Utah has the tradition that byu can only dream about. Again thanks for
trying to play against Utah this year in football and basketball but Utah is the
better program. As proven on the field. We have never gone 1-26 during our
programs basketball history.
CrowGet comfortable then, I suppose we can address this again in two
years. "We know how to get past the first round of the NCAA
tourney."And when was the last time you were there to get past
the first round?"Unlike byu Utah has a basketball
tradition."Really? That's news to anyone outside the state
of Utah. One final four run is not a legacy. I'm not talking up ASU or BYU
nearly like you are talking up Utah. You sound like BYU fans expecting a
national title. Both programs are down, and both programs are far from the Final
4. 2 years from now? You'll be saying the same thing "In two
Your friend probably doesn't see the field for the Utes, thats why he
wishes he went somewhere that would play him.... nice try!
@ Crowhaha thanks for the laugh.Take a look at BYUs and Utahs
recruiting classes in basketball and tell me Utahs is better.Utah's
average star ranking for football is now 11 out of 12 pac-12 schools.Good
luck to all Utah schoolsAnd stay classy all fans.
@CougarSunDevil What a coincidence, I too have a friend, but on the Ute football
team we knew it was a lie after all you have no friends
@ CougarSunDevil I would give it two more recruiting classes to have the PAC12
talent on the hill. With the rapid improvement that Utah has experienced under
Coach K. Utah will be back to the winning ways we experienced during the Majerus
era. Unlike byu Utah has a basketball tradition. We know what it is like to be
on the big stage. We know how to get past the first round of the NCAA tourney.
But thanks for trying to play with the likes of Utah and the PAC12
for that matter. After all we belong to the Conference of Champions you byu
belong to the 10th best conference in NCAA basketball. The swing of talent is
already starting to go to Utah on the hill which was evident in their 2014
signing class. Getting 4 Star Brekkott Chapman who turned down #1 Arizona, UCLA,
Gonzaga, Colorado, Cal and wcc power byu LOL and 4 Star Kyle Kuzma who turned
down Connecticut, Iowa St, Penn St, Oklahoma St, just to name a few.
a whopping 7,000 people attended the mighty pac showdown between Washington and
OSU, boy they sure pack em in in the Pac, amazing! the arena only seats 10,000,
must be a high school up there
To ALL BYU fans:A friend of mine, who plays and starts (football)
for BYU told me this about the Utes. He said "i'll admit, Utah is more
talented and have more depth over BYU. Since them joining the PAC it's a
been a huge difference" I will not say this players name, but maybe you
fans need to realize that even the players are noticing the difference in skill
level now too! Its a great day to be a Utah fan. No matter how you spin it
cougs, you are jealous of where Utah is. Can any cougar fan be man
enough to try to tell the desnews comment board that they would rather play
independent and in the WCC?
Crow"You know that Coach K has woken a sleeping giant and it
wont be long before Utah will be compete head to head with the likes of Arizona
and the UCLA's for the conference championships"I
appreciate the satire. My favorite part is the "it wont (sic) be long"
comment because it's not a specific time frame that allows for any kind of
interpretation. 2, 5 20 years. This is why Utah can't be taken
seriously. Football is destined for the Rose Bowl. Now basketball is going to
rival Arizona and UCLA for conference championships (this next part is
interpretive and I'm not saying anyone has specifically said this, but
since Arizona and UCLA have done this, and Utah is supposed to challenge them
for conference championships, this is implied) and will therefore be destined
for frequent Sweet 16's with several final 4 finishes. Let's keep it real. Even I won't say ASU has a great basketball
program, nor does BYU. Utah is somewhere in the middle.
StGtoSLC"I think a rematch of some Utah teams may be imminent in
the NIT." I certainly think that's possible, but that would
only be if BYU can figure things out. Right now, I'm not convinced that BYU
could get very far in any tournament. Of course, I thought the same thing last
year, and BYU made it to the last four of the NIT. Hopefully it would be a fun
game to watch (and I mean that it is competitive instead of what happened
earlier this year).
@poyman Its great to see your insecurities shine through. You know that Coach K
has woken a sleeping giant and it wont be long before Utah will be compete head
to head with the likes of Arizona and the UCLA's for the conference
championships while byu will still be fighting for 3rd place in the wcc the 10th
best conference in the NCAA's
Too bad for the utes that Arizona is a great road team and ARE NOT 1-20 on the
road. It will be a long night on the hill for the utes when the wildcats come
to town. I might just have to buy tickets since I'm sure there will be
plenty to choose from.
I'd say until coach Rose and BYU can beat a ranked opponent, they have
nothing of note to say about Utah basketball. It's one thing if BYU was
playing well and winning to tear down Utah's successes, but not only is BYU
losing to teams like Portland and Loyola but they got hammered by Utah. I'm
disappointed in BYU basketball this year...their defense is awful, their free
throw shooting has been atrocious, and they have times when they can't hit
the broad side shooting the basketball. Utah is a better basketball team right
now, period. I don't see how BYU fans can make an argument about that. When BYUs football team turns the tables and starts beating Utah, Cougar
fans will "rise and shout" and let everyone know about it. Do you expect
Utah fans to do differently when they've come from being awful to where
they are now, including beating BYU after 7 straight losses? Give credit where
it's due, Utah is a good basketball team right now, with no evidence
whatsoever suggesting they won't continue to get even better.
Uteology,"They were PAC-12 standings. Slow day today?"Up until today I thought I could say everyone refers to teams with their
national rank and no one refers to people in their conference rank unless they
are discussing conference tournament seeding. I guess making something appear
better than it really is (spinning) by using conference ranks instead of
national ranks is what I should expect to read on articles about the Utah Utes.
I guarantee, you won't hear anyone else in the PAC 12 refer to PAC-12 teams
'conference ranking' to describe how challenging of a game it is/was.
@CougarSunDevilRight. You mean like this one?"#2
UCLA, lost in the final minutes at #4 Washington and at #5 ASU? The same team
that had the reigning PAC-12 Player of the Week? Only in your dreams."I don't see ANY PAC-12 team ranked other than Arizona. Now
that's a spin job.----------They were PAC-12
standings. Slow day today?
CougarSunDevil: "I see your point about steady progress in the Ute program
and that you're likely basing that on W/L record."No.
I'm basing it on the on-court product, combined with an improvement in W/L
record (which obviously should be taken with a grain of salt). Others nationally
are making these same conclusions as well. From ESPN's Eamonn Brennan:
"The 2012-13 campaign wasn’t one for the ages, but the year-over-year
improvement was stark: The Utes were vastly more capable on both sides of the
ball...You can see this vast developmental gulf in more than box scores and
results pages. You can see it in the way Krystkowiak works his team’s
advantages on the court, in the Utes’ smart situational use of timeouts
and stoppages. You can see it in the way junior college transfer Delon
Wright...eventually forced Oregon into double-teams and added rotations."Also, did I call BYU terrible? No. I've said several times this
year they are a good, not great, team, and were a respectable opponent to beat.
I think a rematch of some Utah teams may be imminent in the NIT.
Christine B. Hedgefog"Keep up the moral victories and hang in
there. You're bound to stumble into a significant win at some point this
year."Thanks for the encouragement. It's good to know that
you believe Utah does indeed have opportunities for a significant win. byu, on
the other hand...no opportunity whatsoever. Just think, byu fans have Holmoe
and his desperate reaction in June 2010 to thank for that.
Finally we agree - The Utes gave Arizona all they wanted - Of course all they
wanted was their 20th straight victory and to swat a pesky insignificant (and
winless on the road) fly off their shoulder.Funny, the jokers here
who keep coming back with the "If the Utes stink so bad but we killed you,
what does that say about the BYU program?" It says the only win on your
record that might have once been remotely considered a decent
win...wasn't.Keep up the moral victories and hang in there.
You're bound to stumble into a significant win at some point this year.
Uteology"Anyone who thinks college basketball teams who will do
better "next year" because their team will have experience, doesn't
understand college basketball. Is experience an important factor for
success in college basketball?I think talent is more important, but
experience does help."Strawman fallacy. Conversation was about
experience not factoring talent.
Uteology"Utah gave Washington State their only PAC-12 Win.
Anyone who loses to Washington State is worthy of being overlooked. One of the worst spin jobs I have ever read."Right. You mean
like this one?"#2 UCLA, lost in the final minutes at #4
Washington and at #5 ASU? The same team that had the reigning PAC-12 Player of
the Week? Only in your dreams."I don't see ANY PAC-12 team
ranked other than Arizona. Now that's a spin job.
@CougarSunDevilAnyone who thinks college basketball teams who will
do better "next year" because their team will have experience,
doesn't understand college basketball. -----------Is experience an important factor for success in college basketball?Youngest (Inexperienced) Team Rankings#1 Kentucky#25
Arizona#54 UCLA#65 Utah#82 Duke#87 Syracuse#87
BYU#120 Washington State#203 Arizona StateI think talent
is more important, but experience does help.
JohnInSLC,Since you are checking facts go to the Sports Illustrated stats
page and you will see that BYU is ranked 11th in assists, 10 in scoring, and 7th
in rebounding. This is for ALL Division 1 teams in the entire country. It
includes wins and loses. You just used the loses to make your point. Shall we
take away the first 10 games of your cupcake season and then compare again?
CougarSunDevilPhoenix, AZUteology,"Please do
explain how Arizona overlooked Utah?"I would be very glad to my
friend.Washington State 49Utah 46Arizona 60Washington State 25Utah gave Washington State their only PAC-12
Win. Anyone who loses to Washington State is worthy of being overlooked. ----------One of the worst spin jobs I have ever read.Unlike Washington State, Utah has shown that they have the talent to
compete with ANY team in the PAC-12. Winning? That will take a little more
time, in particular on the road. Young teams often struggle on the road.Arizona was overlooking a team that beat #2 UCLA, lost in the final
minutes at #4 Washington and at #5 ASU? The same team that had the reigning
PAC-12 Player of the Week? Only in your dreams.
Great game by the U. Clearly the better team in the state this year. Best of
luck the rest of the way.
Drexel only lost to Zona by 4 points!!!! They must be ranked right? Or a Final
Four projected team right? i mean they hung around too.
Wasn't aware that in order to get into the tourney a team had to have a
certain size of gym.
Anyone who thinks the size of a gym matters in college basketball doesn't
understand college basketball. Witchita St.'s seating capacity is just over
10,000. Do you think they care? Anyone who thinks college basketball
teams who will do better "next year" because their team will have
experience, doesn't understand college basketball. Excellent players stay
around for a year, maybe two. Most programs have to reload year in and year out
(Duke, Arizona, etc.). New Mexico was supposed to be stellar this year with
their senior heavy squad. They have laid an egg. Utah might be alright if
Loveridge stays around, but not just because they will have experience. BYU will
have lots of upper-classmen next year, and they aren't guaranteed to be
You've got to love these posts. Someone makes an outrageous post posing as
a Ute blaming the refs, we're so good, etc., then that post is referenced
for the next two weeks about how "out of it" Utah fans are. Anyone
who doesn't think that Utah was in it and put a real scare into the number
one team in the country while playing on the road, either did not see the game
or doesn't' understand the game of basketball or both.They're still a young team who hasn't learned how to close a game.
They will and when they do will start to win the away games. If it takes till
next year when more quality relief is added to the team, so be it. We're
still in the PAC 12 playing the number one team in the country. Not even in the
same universe as losing to Portland in front of 600 fans in a gym.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UT"And yet Krisko HAS turned it
around quickly, and has some good recruits coming in that will make it even
better. It's actually pretty amazing what he's done in such a short
period of time."That's the way Utah fans are looking at
this. I remember the press conference when Krisko was introduced at Utah. He
stated (paraphrasing)...I can coach basketball, what I'm looking for is
leaders. It became clear that he understands and works well with young men
which I think was one of Boylen's biggest handicaps. What Krisko has done
in just 2+ years is nothing short of remarkable, IMO.btw...I enjoy
your posts. Thoughtful and always on point even in your sometimes sharp
criticism of the Utah football program. Good luck to the Cougs in
the 2nd half of conference play.
"Better check your facts first."Gone fishin:I
did. In only one of BYU's losses (to Iowa St.) did they lead in assists.
They tied Oregon at 15 each. The rest? Utah 18 BYU 10Portland 21 BYU
17UMass 29 BYU 15Loyola 19 BYU 14Pepperdine 14 BYU 12Gonzaga 21 BYU 8Witchita St. 13 BYU 7Obviously, only the big
men don't have a Jimmer hangover.
DraperUte:"Not one realistic Ute fan I know thought Larry could turn
this program around quickly. The cupboard was bare."And yet
Krisko HAS turned it around quickly, and has some good recruits coming in that
will make it even better. It's actually pretty amazing what he's done
in such a short period of time.
Poyman and other Utah bashers, thank you for stating the obvious continually. I
think we could figure out on our own that post Majerus, Utah has not been good,
but if it makes you feel better about your own team or your life experience to
do nothing more than denigrate another team, by all means, continue to state the
abundantly obvious.For BYU fans who have shown a little class and
acknowledged the efforts of Larry K. to improve the Ute program, thank you. Utah has good basketball tradition (19th in the history of the NCAA
according to Sagarin), so Ute fans do not measure things the same way you haters
measure. We are looking forward and you look backward. We look at improved
play on the floor, better attendance in the arena, and very close games and some
wins against tough conference foes as evidence of gradual improvement. Not one
realistic Ute fan I know thought Larry could turn this program around quickly.
The cupboard was bare.Kaizen, my friends...gradual improvement is
what Larry K. sought and that is what he is bringing to pass.
Gee ekute. I'm glad you are so clairvoyant that you can, with confidence,
predict that BYU would be defeated in the first quarter, which, by its self
would be very difficult since college games are not played in quarters. Never
mind that BYU has taken several ranked teams to the brink before, on the road.
But I guess kudos can't be given unless (1) it isn't BYU in the
conversation (2) the opponent is a highly ranked PAC12 team. Right?BTW: I do think it is impressive that Utah was able to hang with AZ to the
UU"Just admit that it's impossible for you to give credit
to the Utes because (1) your extreme dislike for them (2) they handed your
Cougars their worst loss of the season."Oh I can give credit
where credit is due, but what else has Utah done? They beat BYU. After the chest
thumping about being the "Best in Utah." What else have they done? They
beat UCLA at home. Good job. Their winning percentage is good at home, not
great, but good. However, they lost to the worst team in the PAC away from the
HC. What credit should I give Utah for that? Conversely BYU is in
the same boat. Except for Stanford and Texas (evidence they have not over looked
the entire season), they've done pretty poorly on the road too (BYU's
game with Utah as at the HC, away). So neither team deserves credit. I don't extremely dislike Utah. I dislike outlandish statements that take
the "Mercy for me (or school), and justice for everyone else (opponents
school)" mentality. I don't think Utah, BYU, or even ASU has that good
of a basketball program right now. At least ASU had football.
StGtoSLCI see your point about steady progress in the Ute program
and that you're likely basing that on W/L record. Utah was 15-18 last year
with help from their miraculous run in the PAC 12 tournament (great run btw).
Utah is also doing well this year, but helped with their arguably very weak non
conference schedule (best win in Non conference play is BYU and Utah fans state
BYU is terrible, so I have to assume that all non conference games were VERY
weak). I'll admit the overall program is in a better situation, but I
don't think they would have been as good now had they played a better
non-conference schedule. I think Utah would have done about equally as good
against BYU's schedule as BYU did. BYU lost to Utah because Utah is better.
Both schools have work to do. Until Utah can offer a steady diet of some road
wins, I don't see them being able to progress as fast. Most recruits would
see it. That's why Parker went to Duke and not BYU. That's why other
recruits would go to other schools than Utah.
JohnInSLC,A train wreck in Provo? Really? Did you realize that BYU
ranked 8th nationally in assists just last week? Better check your facts first.
The train wreck resides on the hill in SLC.
So, poyman, your observation is valid with respect to the period involved.
However, rather than obsessing over the Utes in the Pac-12 there is a more
serious question you should be asking...How is it that the Utes
could be so bad for several years and then rise so quickly when the byu program
has remained virtually stagnate over the same period? I looked at
the comments on the byu articles and found that you did not participate in those
discussions. Yet, here you are comparing today's Utes to an elite and
mature conference and making all manner of predictions. Take the question I
posed above to the byu boards and have that discussion. Based on the coaching
clinic Coach K put on for Rose in December, there has to be some concern in byu
Poyman:Nice logic: "Wait 'til last year!"
Kind of funny that bitter coug fans are going to such extraordinary lengths to
make themselves feel better about that no-assist/no-defense train wreck
masquerading as a D-1 basketball team out of Provo.
poymanLincoln City, OR"I have seen so many references in
this thread about Utah's win over BYU this year that I feel like I have to
clarify the situation..."Are you serious? You feel that you,
poyman, have to clarify the situation? LOL!Utah started to decline
when Majerus left. The program hit rock bottom in Coach K's first year
(2012). That period accounts for virtually every loss to byu that you cite in
your post. Beginning last year, under the leadership of Coach K, the Utah
program experienced a sharp turnaround which can be seen by the two point win
byu enjoyed at the MC last year. Now in Coach K's 3rd year the Utes
clearly are on a rapid ascent that is simply fascinating to watch. The Pac-12 is a poor measuring stick to show the turnaround for the proud
basketball tradition at the U since Utah joined the conference when the program
was at rock bottom. On the other hand, byu can be used as a perfect measuring
stick to note the decline and rise of the Utah program because head to head
competition was consistent throughout the period.
poyman, funny that you mention TCU as "okay" in football, but that the
Utes are terrible because of their conference records the last two years (which
still weren't among the bottom 2 in the conference either year, let alone
last). In two years in the Big XII, TCU has won less conference games and games
overall than Utah did in its first two years in the PAC-12. And yes, in fact,
there are plenty of teams that are non-factors in both football and basketball
in their conferences. Temple, USF, Wake Forest, West Virginia, etc. Why
didn't you think of them? Because they're non-factors. Why obsess over
Utah? I'll let you answer that.
Poyman speaks volumes. Nice research. One win over BYU does not a season make.
Cougndawgs,I likewise could be a ute fan if it were not for Chris B, ekute
and the likes that pound on BYU all day long, win or lose.
I have seen so many references in this thread about Utah's win over BYU
this year that I feel like I have to clarify the situation...Before
the win this year over the Cougs, the utes last beat BYU in OT at the HC in the
2008-2009 season... They lost the game at the MC that same year by double digits
which was the first of 7 straight losses over 5 years before they finally won
again on their home floor...It's interesting however, to look
at the utes record against the Cougs on the road in the MC... The utes have not
won in Cougarville since the 2004-2005 season even though they played there
virtually every year except one... That's 9 years since they beat the Cougs
in Provo... Ouch.I guess BYU shouldn't feel so special
though... Several pac12 teams have begun that trend themselves... All of the
schools except Washington will have 3 in a row on the utes at the end of this
I have a confession to make. In football I have extreme prejudice against the
Utes and always have, but in basketball I really like Utah and have since the
Pace Mannion and Tom Chambers years. I actually have been to more Utah
basketball games at the huntsman center than BYU games...I went to their final
four run in '98 and was hoarse after cheering them on against Kentucky. So
when it comes to basketball, yes I'm a BYU. But I'm a closet Ute fan
and have just recently come out lol. Sorry Coug fans, don't hate me, but I
felt a need to explain why I'm always positive about Utah basketball. Ahhh,
feels good to get that weight off my shoulders, Lol.
Utah has made Washington State relevant in the pac12... Rarely in any conference
do you see the same school always at the bottom competitively in both football
and basketball... In the Big 12 Kansas drags the bottom in Football
but is a top competitor in Basketball while TCU does okay in Football but stinks
in Basketball.In the Big 10 you have an Indiana that is usually
great in Basketball but horrible in Football while Northwestern does okay in
Football but is a cellar dweller in Basketball...The SouthEast has
Alabama in Football which is irrelevant in Basketball and Kentucky which is
always the class of the SouthEast in Basketball but stinks it up in
Football...In the big bad pac12 you have one school that hangs
around the bottom in both sports giving Washington State their first Bowl game
in several years and giving their Basketball team some long sought for bragging
rights over another pac12 team...Congratulations Utah on another
hard fought road loss... 1-21 and the beat goes on...
"but ultimately lose by 9 points" So now its how many points the
Utes lose by? so where is the bar set? 10+ points is bad? 5,6,7 or less is good?
Miami lost to #2 by 12 points, is that worse than losing by 9 pts.? how much
worse? Let's make a chart and break down what is acceptable to lose by for
every team in the NCAA. Sounds like the BCS
A lot of venom from the BYU fan base today. I mean, I think we all knew that
the Utes were playing the #1 team in the country, a team that had beaten such
teams as Michigan and Duke on the road. But to read the gloating from the Provo
fan base is a little amusing, considering the Utes took the mighty Cougs to the
woodshed last month. What does that say about your own team, Cougar
@CougarSunDevil, "Please do explain how Arizona overlooked Utah? I would
be very glad to my friend. Washington State 49 Utah 46. Arizona 60 Washington
State 25.That's an easy game to play CougarSunDevil. Utah also
beat UCLA by more points than Arizona did so perhaps that is the very reason AZ
did not over look the Utes. Just admit that it's impossible for you to
give credit to the Utes because (1) your extreme dislike for them (2) they
handed your Cougars their worst loss of the season.
Great game by Utah, actually it was a pretty good showing by two of Utah's
big 3. Aggies take #7 San Diego State to overtime and Utah gives #1 Arizona all
they want and more. Great job! And truth to be told BYU did okay against an
unranked Gonzaga team. Tough to beat the Zags at home. But given the comparative
resources and money I would think BYU would be dominating the WCC.
"That pretty much sums up Utah's pac-12 experience - they just
aren't good enough and never will be."Hold on, there, fast
Ed. Never is a very long time and when the progress made over the last two
years is taken into account, it seems completely unrealistic and unreasonable to
assert "never." The Pac-12 is fabulous conference to be a part of
because it is competition at the highest level. As Larry Scott was recently
quoted...Utah is a perfect fit culturally and academically and over
time, they will have their share of success (paraphrased).So,
let's see, who's right...Larry Scott or Ed Grady?
Syracuse also let Miami "hang" around but ended up winning, I don't
see a lot of praise and acclamation coming out for the Canes, they are still an
awful team. No different here. And Zona will be the first undefeated team to
lose, mark it down. oh and Coach K and his team plays tonight against Pitt, you
Ute fans are getting confused
Down under thinks "it still means that the utes are bad and BYU overlooked
them"Actually, BYU overlooked the season.The Utes were
simply the first team to figure out that BYU is a one man show, that could be
defeated using something called "defense". No need to Google that
strange term. Rest assured that BYU's top Sports Scientists are working
feverishly to understand "defense" and hope to apply basic components to
the basketball team as early as next season.
This game is a perfect example of why Utah is a better basketball team than BYU
right now. BYU can't play defense to save their lives. Watching that
gonzaga game was frustrating because BYU couldn't slow down their offense
and the zags did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. Utah on the other
hand plays solid lock down defense and makes teams earn every point they get.
Until BYU learns to play defense like the utes they will struggle. Good game
utes, as I've said before it's good to see Utah basketball on the rise
The Utes played great and still got beat. That pretty much sums up Utah's
pac-12 experience - they just aren't good enough and never will be.
Arizona struggled against USC and UCLA, teams Utah beat, and Utah gave AZ all
they could handle last year, so the argument that Arizona overlooked Utah simply
because it was a closer game than expected is more of the same from Cougar
fans.Sean Miller gave Coach K. credit after the game for coming up
with an effective defensive strategy (though it led to many offensive rebounds
and easy put backs). The irony is Utah played one of its worst
games in recent weeks and were still right there with the Wildcats, but we
don't hear about that from Cougar fans. Loveridge disappeared in the 2nd
half, Brandon Taylor was not a factor, and still Utah kept it close. Utah has been awful on the road and there are no excuses or moral victories,
yet we still have optimism as Utah fans. Better to lose a tough game to #1 than
a triple overtime "thriller" to a team nobody east or south of the
Willamette River even knows has a basketball program.
CSD, we'll revisit your claim in another 3-4 years. Of course there's
always the possibility you end up being right. But if trends continue the way
they have been these last two years, with continued, steady progress? Will you
admit it, or excuse it away with "They're really not that good,
everybody else just had down years," or "This is that one occasional
Good to have you in the discussion, CougarSunDevil. Your continued presence on
this board and particularly the caustic nature of your comments brings
credibility to my assessment above. Just in case you missed it, here it is
again..."At the end of the day, your comments convey your
fear/envy of what Coach K has been able to do in just over two years. The Utah
program was in the dumpster when Coach K took over. Now, they are competitive on
the road with the #1 team in the nation. Your fear is well founded especially
after the thorough dismantling your cougs experienced by the Utes."Fun discussion but the 2nd half of our exciting conference schedule is set to
begin and the Utes have a lot to build on and look forward to.
Uteology,"Please do explain how Arizona overlooked Utah?"I would be very glad to my friend. Washington State 49Utah 46Arizona 60Washington State 25Utah gave
Washington State their only PAC-12 Win. Anyone who loses to Washington State is
worthy of being overlooked. And just so you know I'm being
fair, anyone who loses to Loyola Marymount, is also worthy of being overlooked.
The State of Utah universities are not having a very good basketball/football
year. SOME good moments, but not a whole season. All Utah can do is beat up on
instate competition (when they aren't afraid of playing them). That's
why Utah will be a mediocre PAC-12 team with an occasional decent season (for
both money making sports) every now and again.
It's amazing how much better UTAH is this year.Congratulations
to the team as well as the coaching staff.Did AZ overlook the
UTES?Maybe.The pressure for AZ to go undefeated will
continue to build.If they go undefeated through the PAC 12 and the
PAC 12 tourney they will get a fairly easy road to the Sweet 16.At
that point, they will be undefeated while facing an equally hot opponent.I see AZ losing that game.
JohnInSLC "Too many "ifs" and "mights"(sic) to
pass for thoughtful analysis."Exactly, I don't have to give
a whole lot of thought to perform an analysis of Utah. Very simple
comment: It's a road game? Utah is going to loose. Not a whole
lot of thought analysis: Utah road game? They have less than 5% chance of
winning (That's 1/21 in case you were wondering). That's easy math and
very little thought given to it. Have a good one though. Utah teams
(BYU included) can't win on the road. When they are at home, they have a
shot if the other team overlooks them.
@poyman"Where does it put the Cougs? It puts us 2-11 over 7
years against the utes... the Cougs will have more pac12 road wins this year
than the utes... The Cougs will have more total road wins this year than the
utes...."HAHA! Nice try! You didn't answer the
question... Where does this put your team THIS YEAR if AZ just beat one of the
"worst" teams in college basketball?
Arizona didn't over look the Utes; they played a good team and came out on
top. They executed better than Utah in the last 4 minutes; and that was the
difference. It's funny when you beat BYU, you really don't. No,
it's a fluke, or they over looked Utah, or the officiating was biased,
@DownUnderYou know the problem is that teams always seem to get up to play
against Utah. That's why we always lose. Teams play out of their mind
against us. We were also really tired from a long road trip and the other team
got hot. See? I can list a bunch of excuses too. I would be careful talking
about the weakness of PAC12 when the pathetic WCC can't even compare.
byu fans are funny buch...Joe SchmoepoymanDown underetc.When Utah loses it's because they are the worst team in
the country. When they win, it's because they were overlooked or that the
elite Pac-12 is over rated. Hilarious! At the end of the day, your
comments convey your fear/envy of what Coach K has been able to do in just over
two years. The Utah program was in the dumpster when Coach K took over. Now,
they are competitive on the road with the #1 team in the nation. Your fear is
well founded especially after the thorough dismantling your cougs experienced by
the Utes.Again, great effort by the Utes. I'm looking forward
to the 2nd half of Pac-12 basketball!
The BYU trolls were out in force. On a Sunday evening no less.I
put much of the blame of this loss on Loveridge. Five rebounds doesn't cut
it. Zero fouls tells me that he's not fighting for rebounds in the paint.
He disappeared in the second half. I thought Bachinzki was a warrior, but he
needed some help.
It was a great and valiant effort by the Utes despite the outcome. At this
point, I think Utah's big 3 should now focus on winning their respective
conferences' tournaments to get an invite to the big dance. There will be
no invites outside of that.Good luck to all!
Those saying that Arizona overlooked the Utes due to lack of respect have no
basis on which to make such a nefarious statement. Does that mean that OSU
overlooked them? Does that mean that UCLA overlooked them? At what? What on the
Pac-12 schedule is so much more important than winning game next? BYU fans, back
off! Just because our team has hit the annual flop house after such an early
season of promise made its premature exit is no excuse to not get behind our
friends up on the hill. These are our friends, our neighbors, our associates at
work... They are having the type of season that BYU was looking at until they
got too comfortable and complacent on the courts just like the football field.
Stop being jealous at our life of mediocrity and pull for the dream season that
has evaded us forever in basketball and will continue evading us forevermore.
These Utes are real and I am one true blue cougar fully behind them. Not a
bandwagoner of any sort. Just a fan of sports in Utah and a lover of my
neighbors! GO UTES!
@CougarSunDevilKen, if Arizona respected Utah, Utah would have lost
by 40. Arizona overlooked Utah, that's why the game was as close as it
was.-----------How so? * Is it because we
lost by 13 total points in our 4 road loses prior to the Arizona game? * Or because last year Utah a 15-18 team nearly pulled off an upset at
#3 Arizona 57-60?Please do explain how Arizona overlooked Utah?
We just couldn't keep Arizona off the offensive boards, too bad we had a
legit chance to pull off an upset. Loveridge again struggled shooting (28%)
today. He shot over 50% the previous two games but he went into back into
slump, just like at Washington State (27%). @worf "Just like
football. Close, but no cigar."Against your team? Wait, you
mean against PAC 12? Like your team is any better:BYU is 1-2 in
basketball and 0-2 in football vs PAC-12.Stanford is kicking itself.
I'll give the Utes credit for this game - this one could have gone either
Absolutely no shame to lose to an outstanding Arizona team. Congrats. Go Utes!
Keep learning ans growing. You are the toughest bunch we've seen on the
hill in a long, long time and I'm happy to pull for this team. I'll
say it right now, this team is going to be a handful not next year---but from
here on out.
Amusing listening to cougar fans. By their comments you'd get the
impression they beat the Utes and are dominating their conference. Utes are improving, but still lost. No complaining about refs, bad calls go
both ways. We lost to a better, deeper team.I'll take what
Coach K is building all day long. The future is very bright. Go
Come on Joe Schmoe. Don't be like that. The Utes program is going to be
fine. The refs aren't the reason the Utes lost. The refs only dislike the
Cougs, don't ya know. Don't be a whiner. I'm just going to keep
cheering for the Utes, and watch them get better. Let the Cougar fans keep
blaming the refs. Players have to make plays.
Ute nation,I think it still means that the utes are bad and BYU overlooked
them, just like UCLA did and AZ almost did. That is how bad teams sneak up on
better teams every once in a while. Shall we look at the past 13 games to see
who the victor was? Ute fans seem to like to do that when it comes to football.
Cougar fans, thank you for your continued obsession. How did your team do on the
road against the league's first place team and only flagship program
yesterday? poyman, they scored 22% less points in a 40 minute game against
unranked Gonzaga. FYI, I was cheering for the cougars. I support all
the mid-major programs in our state. USU played a great game against SDSU,
taking them to OT. The Utes are a couple of pieces away from
contending and I think we get them in our 2014 recruiting class.Go
poymanLincoln City, OR"hanging tough"?... I guess
that's like the DN headline from last year that read "the utes snag
10th place in the pac12"... Congratulations Utah, another moral victory for
the trophy case..."Well, let's see poyman...here's the
Des News headline from Thursday night:"BYU basketball: Cougars
lose to Portland in triple-OT thriller" Seriously? A
"thriller" against Portland in front of 600 people? Yeah, it
doesn't get any better than that. So, the moral victory of the week goes
Sorry coug trolls, no moral victory tonight. Just a bunch of fans congratulating
their team on a great effort. Thanks for posting your thoughts
though! You must be losing sleep realizing that our programs are headed in
totally different directions.
poyman"The utes record on the road remains unblemished... And in
conference they are a blistering 3-5 (a 37.5% win ratio)... As bad as that is,
it's better than the Football winning percentage... That makes the
accumulative Road Winning number 1-21 which is a winning percentage of a little
less than 4.8%... Now tell us that's not impressive."And
yet we wouldn't want to trade you spots for anything.
But seriously folks!"Very nice!!! Has it come down to blaming
the refs for utah's poor road performance? 1-21 on the road cannot be
blamed on the refs."You need to realize that Joe Schmoe is a
cougar fan thinking he's funny by pretending to be a Ute fan complaining
about the refs. There's not one Ute fan on this thread so far who has
blamed the refs at all. Like someone else said, we don't do that north of
Utah County.Moving on ... this game came down to rebounding. If Utah
can put forth the same kind of effort in the Huntsman Center while gathering in
more rebounds and loose balls, they'll have a great chance to pull off an
@ekute... First off, in college they play halves not quarters... Secondly, Utah
couldn't beat the weakest team in the WCC let alone the big bad pac12 on
the road... They have demonstrated no ability whatsoever to win a road game of
any sort. None.... 1-21 in 2 and a half years? Washington is the only pac12 team
that has the dubious honor of having lost to the utes on their home floor since
the utes joined the conference almost 3 years ago... Think about it...
That's pretty bad.
CSunDevil:Too many "ifs" and "mights" to pass for
We'll see exactly how tough the big bad pac12's only representative in
the Top 25 is come Tourney time... I project no big bad pac12 teams make it to
the sweet 16... But we'll see.
I've been watching Arizona teams now for decades, and I gotta' tell
you, this is the single toughest bunch of kids I recall seeing wear an Arizona
basketball uniform. They just don't give up, ever. And they are very
physical, which has not historically been true of Arizona teams.This
of course doesn't mean they can't be beaten, and they've had to
come from behind to win more than a few games this year. But what it does mean
is that they are just as tough on the road as they are at home (sometimes even
more so).Sean Miller is also a very good coach who has demonstrated
time and time again the ability to adjust to whatever defenses or other wrinkles
other teams throw at him.Not to put down Utah at all. It's
just that they were playing a tough bunch of kids, and had Arizona put back even
more of their 20 offensive boards (they missed a lot of second, third and even
fourth shots), it would easily have been a 20+ point game.
Fun game, almost had it. Up 12-2 early we were making Arizona look
like a wcc team. I really like the Sunday games too, I hope for many
more both home and away. Sunday sporting events are a great way to
spend time with family and friends. Proud of the utes and coach kOnward and upward to PAC 12 glory
@utenationalum...Where does it put the Cougs? It puts us 2-11 over 7
years against the utes... the Cougs will have more pac12 road wins this year
than the utes... The Cougs will have more total road wins this year than the
utes.... In short the Cougs (even with our horrible game against the utes at the
HC and a very mediocre season) will have a better shot at a post season Tourney
than the utes... That's where it puts the Cougs.
Arizona defeats Duke, Michigan, San Diego State, a tough PAC 12 schedule and
wins 20 straight and Cougar fans talk overrated just because Utah gives them a
tough game. Predictable.Too bad Loveridge disappeared in the 2nd
half, but credit Arizona's defense. They were very good and their
rebounding on both ends of the court. Proud of you Utes. You won
some respect from Arizona players and coaches today. Just need to learn how to
finish strong and make plays down the stretch.
Can you imagine what Arizona would do to an average wcc team? It would be 90-50
It still leaves you at 1 - 21 all time in the PAC11.1 on the road. 2 wins
against BYU in the last 15 tries or so. Impressive. And by the way, there are
no guarantees for "next year" as Utes everywhere seem to be so giddy
@gone fishinWhere does this put your cougars if Arizona just beat
one of the worst teams in the country? A team that destroyed your cougars...
Joe Schmoe: "We would have won that game if the refs weren't against
us. It is just like football. They don't want the utes to win anything in
this league. Pathetic."Oh, I don't know, Arizona had its
share of bad calls too. I suppose we'll see what happens when Arizona
plays at Huntsman. So far Arizona has proven pretty darn tough on the road.
"hanging tough"? utah got more than 16% fewer points than the Wildcats
in 40 short minutes... I guess that's like the DN headline from last year
that read "the utes snag 10th place in the pac12"... Congratulations
Utah, another moral victory for the trophy case...The utes record on
the road remains unblemished... And in conference they are a blistering 3-5 (a
37.5% win ratio)... As bad as that is, it's better than the Football
winning percentage... That makes the accumulative Road Winning number 1-21 which
is a winning percentage of a little less than 4.8%... Now tell us that's
The Utes played a hard fought game this evening and gave the Wildcats all they
could handle at home. Well done, Utes!Coach K seems to have the
team playing better on the road. The second half of conference play is going to
be fun to watch.Congrats to Arizona!
Beyond the whining, moralizing and trolling, there are some thoughts:Arizona coach Miller said that a big part of their second have surge was
recognizing that the way Utah was playing them defensively they would have 2nd
chance opportunities at the rim, and they did, but kudos for Coach K for
devising a tough defense Arizona struggled with.We need more talent
up front, without a doubt. Arizona's defense was good enough to give
Brandon Taylor a goose egg on the box score, which is impressive. I hope Delon
Wright is seeing what he needs to work on, and he dedicates himself to hundreds
of jumpers daily over the offseason between weightlifting sessions.I
think it will be a raucus crowd at the Hunty for Arizona's return.
Nice effort, but much like football they just can't get over the hump on
Just like football.Close, but no cigar.
"We would have won that game if the refs weren't against us." --
Joe SchmoeThat is a popular saying in Utah county, but we don't use
that excuse up north.Refs weren't an issue.
The Runnin' Utes played them tough. Nobody is giving up on this young team.
Knock it off with blaming the refs, that's what our little brothers do.
Same old little one liners by the detractors, nice try, gonzaga and byu would of
lost to Arizona in the first quarter.
I seem to remember many ute fans saying that byu fans were the ones complaining
about the refs...Ken, if Arizona respected Utah, Utah would have
lost by 40. Arizona overlooked Utah, that's why the game was as close as it
was. If Arizona overlooks Utah at the HC, and Utah brings their A
game, Arizona might loose like Stanford did in football.
Joe,Very nice!!! Has it come down to blaming the refs for
utah's poor road performance? 1-21 on the road cannot be blamed on the
Nice effort on the road. The utes are improving but will never compete in the
pac. it's plain to see that the pac is not as good as most people thought
if a bad utah team can give az a run for their money.
We would have won that game if the refs weren't against us. It is just like
football. They don't want the utes to win anything in this league.
I think rebounding is what killed us in the end. We had a 1 point lead after
the Ogbe 3 and then after multiple Arizona offensive boards in a row, they
As I suspected and have been saying all year long; the pac is way over-rated.
If Arizona can allow one of the worst teams in college basketball to come in to
their home and only win by 9 points they are not as good as their ranking.
Arizona is lucky to have gotten out of this game alive! GO UTES!!!
I'm proud of our Utes! Way to hang tough with the #1 team in the land.
I love the direction the program is headed. Keep it up! GO UTES!!!
Tough loss, but we gave #1 Arizona all they could handle. Good game Arizona, you
deserved the win. We don't make excuses and we respect your program. Great
to be in the Pac 12 with you as we battle each other and then respect each other
as well. To all Pac 12 programs - it's a pleasure to make this conference
one of the best in the country, if not the best, along with you.-Ute
That was cute how the ute fans thought they had a chance. Arizona was just
toying with them.
Things are falling apart. Going to need some 3's to get this back. Come
We would have won if it wasn't for the refs. They don't want us
winning anything in the Pac 12. How can we go onward and upward with these
refs? Just like in Football.
The Utes put up a fight and made this interesting. Can't wait to see
Arizona come to the Huntsman Center.
Utes are for real! Great job on turning around the program Coach K!
What a game so far. The thing I've been so impressed with in
the Pac 12 is the RESPECT teams have for each other. We all respect each other.
We all want to win but respect the teams, fans, and other Pac 12 institutions.
Been great to be part of such respect among all participants. Utes
WINNING 37-36. Get it done Utes