Comments about ‘My view: Judge Shelby’s ruling does not change our view of traditional marriage’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 22 2014 12:00 a.m. MST

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Salt Lake City, Utah

How _exactly_ does prohibiting same-sex marriage further "gold standard" relationships - especially when the law allows other relationships that are not "gold standard"?

It is great that you would prefer all children be raised in households with two opposite sex parents, but current law allows single people to adopt. Current law allows single people to access reproductive assistance technologies. Current law allows divorce.

And current law allows two unmarried same-sex people to have and raise children.

How does preventing marriage for those same-sex couples who are already raising children further the goal of having children raised by opposite sex parents? (Obviously it hasn't made any difference up to this point, why is it going to make a difference going forward?)

And why do "traditional marriage/family" supporters feel it is okay to ignore the reality of families/marriage prior to the fiction of "Leave it to Beaver"?

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

As a straight, male Latter-day Saint who is married in the Temple, let me be painfully frank: your view of traditional marriage does not matter in this debate. Your personal, moral convictions are literally irrelevant in the court of law. Rather, credence is granted to the COTUS which is why opponents of marriage equality are going to lose the legal battle.

Salt Lake City, UT

In his important work "The Great Transformation" Karl Polanyi describes the rise of capitalism as a process of change - going from setups where economies were inside of societies to what obtains today - a society inside of an economy. He describes the great stresses the current situation places on traditional forms, especially the family, extended and nuclear. He establishes that life is intolerable in a modern commercial society absent the family. Most of us can agree that life today is intolerable without family life.

So what does Ms. Bunker propose homosexuals do in order to survive in the world we know? They need family life just like heterosexuals. I presume her prescription for them would be therapy of some sort to make them heterosexuals. Such procedures have been thoroughly discredited and have often been brutal in the extreme.

So here's the situation. Homosexuals need families. Ms. Bunker means to deny them. Ms. Bunker, what should they do?

Heber City, UT

Judge Shelby's ruling need not change anyone's view or opinion or belief about anything. He ruled on the law. You will be free to believe whatever you want forever. But the whole point is that law is not based on your views or beliefs about the ideal marriage. And marriage laws are not based on what is ideal. If so, divorce - even contention in marriage - would be illegal.

Eugene, OR

Fine. No one's telling you to change your view of traditional marriage. Just don't rewrite the law based on no real reason besides "because God said so."

spring street

So the opinion was barely able to stumble three steps before falling flat on its face. The state of Utah allows single people to foster and adopt and the only research that begins to support your claims all examined the differences between married couples and single parents not SSM. Further as was the case with the states argument the writer fails to provide any evidance that banning SSM will somehow improve the likelyhood that a child will be raised in what they consider the ideal.

Bountiful, UT

How could or why would this ruling change views regarding traditional marriage? This ruling doesn't affect or have anything to do with traditional marriage.

What this ruling does is legalize gay marriage.


And then there are the many many times when a mom and dad in the home just isn't possible. My mom passed away when I was very young. I can come up with dozens of other plasable scenarios. I can also know families that should not be together because of the poison the mom and dad create in the home.
So sure, its best to have the ideal situation, but since I never had it, and I ended up being a productive member of society, I'm sure there are many more just like me.
It really is a situation where those for "traditional" marriage are riding a high horse and need to get off.

San Antonio, TX

Ok Laura: A couple of questions for you:

Are you in favor a law banning the adoption of children by LGBT couples?

If the natural parent of an LGBT Couple dies should the children be taken from the other parent and placed in a traditional family?

Here, UT

”…eons of time and decades of social science…” is not even an accurate assessment. “Traditional” marriage has changed repeatedly.

“In the wake of “Judicial tyranny,” many Utahns feel like their voice has been taken away…”

And there are many who FINALLY feel like their voice has been returned.

Denying LGBT couples the legal benefits you enjoy is not even close to “treating everyone with kindness and respect.”

E Sam
Provo, UT

While Judge Shelby's opinion may have left some Utahns upset, it made many others jubilant. I would add that people don't wait in line for hours in a snowstorm waiting for a clerk's office to open so they can obtain a marriage license because they want to destroy traditional marriage. They wanted to participate in it.

salt lake city, utah

And here we go again.

This is just like sitting in Sacrament meeting and listening to a talk on Baptism for the umpteenth time in your life.

No new information just personal testimony and stories.

Really DN how many times are you going to do this? We get it you don't like same sex marriage.

The one piece of advice this article had that wasn't too bad was slow down and take a deep breath (my interpretation).

It's out of your/the publics hands now and up to the courts. Stalwart said it well. Your opinion doesn't matter now, and trust me we know what your opinion is.

Castle Valley, Utah

My gosh, how many times do we have to hear this irrational argument? EVERYONE supports "traditional marriage." But denying marriage rights to some does NOT improve another's family. Please stop repeating this lie.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

IMO it's not a Judge's job to change our views. He changes the law.

I'm OK with laws not matching my beliefs. They are two totally separate things.

I don't need laws to force my views to conform to somebody elses values/beliefs. My beliefs are things I will understand and follow without government force (self-motivation).

Laws are needed, but they don't replace personal beliefs. And personal beliefs don't trump the law. But our laws should not be focused at forcing people to change their religious views/beliefs.

If that is what Judge Shelby was trying to do... it was wrong-headed.

If he was only trying to protect the rights of the minority from being suppressed by the majority (and not trying to change anybody's views or beliefs)... it was the right decision.

I think I can keep my beliefs regardless of how this law turns out in the end. So it doesn't matter a lot to me.

I personally think the campaign to "normalize" the gay lifestyle is wrong-headed for society as a whole (long run). But my personal beliefs will be tolerated also (I hope).

American Fork, UT

Your opinion doesn't change, and we're moving on without you. See ya....

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

‘My view: Judge Shelby’s ruling does not change our view of traditional marriage’


And repealing prohibition does not change your view of alcohol.

There are 300 million Americans, there are 300 million views and opinions,
and then there are the laws.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

The Declaration of Independence tells us that we receive all rights from our Creator, not from government. The Constitution limits government to do only those things specifically allotted to it by the people, things that are enumerated. The voice of the people supersedes the "right" of government. Government cannot overrule the voice of the people without declaring the Constitution to be null and void.

Marriage is not listed as a responsibility of government; therefore ACCORDING to the Constitution, all laws pertaining to marriage belong to the States or to the People. Utah followed the Supreme Law of the Land and had the PEOPLE of Utah express their vote on marriage and then incorporated that vote into the Utah State Constitution, where it is binding, ACCORDING to the United States Constitution.

Even the 14th Amendment requires that people be treated equally according to the laws, "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The only laws on marriage that are allowed are those laws written by the States.

Judge Shelby ignored the very foundation of law when he ruled, no matter what his supporters think.

West Richland, WA

You say: "This is not a time to give up, it is a time to wake up."

It is indeed time for those who elect to be controlled by celestial indoctrination to "wake up" and realize the world does not revolve around a particular dogma.

The reason that you feel so much angst, Laura, is that you fail to grasp the concept that marriage equality is a civil matter in which all disagreements will be resolved under the law of the land: the U.S. Constitution, as interpreted by SCOTUS.

Civil matters are not subject to any religious inspection. Marriage equality is a secular, civil matter, and you will find peace when you understand this concept.

When the 10th District Appeals Court rules in favor of the Shelby decision, you will still be free to harbor ill-feelings to your fellow citizens simply because they are not like you. But you need to understand that not being able to unjustifiably force people to conform to how you want them to be, isn't an infringment on your freedoms.

Susan Roylance

Laura Bunker is expressing her opinion, and it should be respected. As you know, it was also the opinion of 66% of the people of Utah, when it was placed on the ballot for a vote. Some of you might think that number has changed, that more people are now accepting of same-sex marriage, but there is no way of knowing that without a secret vote in a voting booth, and all citizens do not vote. So, we need to respect the legal process which allows citizens the opportunity to have a voice in the laws which govern them. Those of you who are trying to get same-sex marriage recognized in Utah are hoping that judges will make the decision, because a majority of the people of Utah are more likely to support marriage between a man and a woman.

Salt Lake City, UT

Nevermind, this one's from an outside writer... one from a group who thinks freedom means being able to fire someone just because they're gay.

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