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Published: Tuesday, Jan. 21 2014 10:35 p.m. MST

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LovelyDeseret
Gilbert, AZ

It seems like it is easier to demonize the other side than to debate honestly and openly.

Yorkshire
City, Ut

Article: "She held those two realities effortlessly."

I think believing that is a great dis-service to her mother, to consider it 'effortless'.

Being an LDS woman, finding out her child was same-sex attracted, and now a Lesbian and an socially prominent Lesbian, this mother knew she, as a mother, was giving up a lot of LDS dreams she had held for this daughter.

I applaud her, but to say what she went through, and still goes through, is 'effortless' cheapens and demeans this mother's experience.

Ranch
Here, UT

@worf;

Puhleeze. LGBT couples getting married does absolutely NOTHING to lead to a "downfall of society". Failure to treat your fellow men decently on the other hand...

@The Reader;

What would you say and how would you react if every other business had a "No heterosexuals served here" sign posted?

If my 'lifestyle' is against your religious beliefs, yet you continue to provide flowers to the Sabbath breakers, bake cakes for the adulterers and photograph the weddings of fornicators, then I say to you that you are using your "religious beliefs" as nothing more than a reason to discriminate against LGBT and that it isn't about your "religious beliefs" or you wouldn't serve those others breaking your "religious beliefs".

Your view of "sin" applies to you and what others do isn't your business.

@county mom;

Would you tell Rosa Parks that the back of the bus arrived at the same time as the front?

It isn't believing that homosexuality is a sin that makes a bigot, it's using those beliefs to discriminate against the homosexual.

Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

We note that the "ACLU threatens Utah parents’ right to protect children from same-sex propaganda" in Farmington, Utah.

From a news report: "The Alliance Defense Fund sent a letter Friday to the Davis School District in support of its policy that requires parental consent before children can check out a homosexual advocacy book titled “In Our Mothers’ House” from elementary school libraries. The American Civil Liberties Union contacted the district and demanded that it allow children to access the book without the knowledge of their parents.

“Public schools should not surrender to ACLU intimidation when it asks them to expose children to sexual content without parental knowledge,” said ADF Legal Counsel Jeremy Tedesco. “Parents, not the ACLU, should decide whether young children have access to this type of propaganda, which is obviously aimed at re-educating children regarding the nature of the family. The law clearly upholds the right and duty of schools to protect children and respect the role of their parents.”

Let parents of chidren in a civil way stand up for the community standards that are founded in sexual decency and protect our constitutional rights.

1978
Salt Lake City, UT

"You can't own a business that is open to the public, but then randomly choose who you will serve."

I agree. However but you can refuse to provide an individual a product that is against your deeply held religous beliefs.

For example if an LDS member went into a bakery owned by Methodist and wanted a cake that was deocrated to emphasize something to do with LDS doctrine and the baker did not want to make it. I as an LDS member would agree with the baker.

Snapdragon
Midlothian, VA

The conversation with this topic has become so toxic.

Let's stop the mud slinging and start looking for a "win-win" solution.

EDM
Castle Valley, Utah

The Reader @ 9:35pm

The LGBT community wants equality, just like any other minority. But there can be no equality as long as religious views about homosexuality (it's a sin, it's abnormal) remain codified, as they are in Utah's Amendment 3.

To use another example regarding businesses, I'm sure there is no shortage of racist business owners out there. But whatever their personal attitudes and beliefs are, it is illegal for them to treat racial minorities as inferior. I'm sure they don't like it - and it might even be against their reliigious beliefs - but the law protects racial minorities from being treated unfairly.

I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Provo, UT

Gibster,

Just put "murder" in place of "charity" in the law, and see how it reads.
Just put "same-gender marriage" in place of "heterosexual marriage".

We believe in equality. But that only applies to the same law and same principles. When you can throw whatever definition or word in at a whim, then you no longer have law but anarchy. Anything goes!

EstoPerpetua
Holden, MA

This is not about, "others having their views", especially when these others have persecuted the LGBT for years. This is about equality and civil rights. As for some Mormons, they need to look back in history, back to "The Fall of '55" when 9 out of 10 gays were Mormons. I should know, I was brought up as a Mormon and saw many hypocrites growing up, and by the way, I am gay and was born that way.

windsor
City, Ut

EDM said--"The LGBT community wants equality, just like any other minority. But there can be no equality as long as religious views about homosexuality (it's a sin, it's abnormal) remain codified, as they are in Utah's Amendment 3."

Just curious if you feel that if it is no longer codified in an amendment or law, Or if everyone who says so is silenced into not saying it, will that change that it is somehow no longer sinful or abnormal?

Inis Magrath
Fort Kent Mills, ME

Governor Herbert is quoted in the article as saying, "I recognize that this is a highly emotional issue with people of good will on both sides of the debate. I encourage everyone to remain respectful of one another and the legal process,"

I disagree. There are not people of good will on both sides. The LGBT side doesn't want to force any person to live how they live. The LGBT side doesn't want to deny the civil right of marriage to anyone.

By contrast, the anti-LGBT side DOES want to force LGBT people to live how they decree. Further, the anti-LGBT side wants to continue to deprive civil marriage rights to LGBT people.

I believe those anti-LGBT positions are the very opposite of good will. They appear mean spirited. I won't call anyone a bigot or homophobic because I do not know what is in another person's heart. But whether the ill will towards LGBT people is intentional or merely a function of one's earnestly held religious beliefs, the effect on LGBT people feels well-imbued will ill will.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@Meckofahess
"Let parents of chidren in a civil way stand up for the community standards that are founded in sexual decency"

While I have never read the book you noted, I'm going to guess there's not a single reference to sex anywhere in there.

@worf
Still waiting for an example of any civilization that collapsed due to support for same-sex relationships.

equal protection
Cedar, UT

@ Reader, your issue is not with the LGBT community it is with Public Accommodation law. You should also respect those who may not want to serve you in a restaurant, doctors office or grocery store because of a your religious belief.

equal protection
Cedar, UT

re: "Governor Herbert is quoted in the article as saying, "I recognize that this is a highly emotional issue with people of good will on both sides of the debate. I encourage everyone to remain respectful of one another and the legal process,"

So Rosa Parks should have been glad to be allowed on the bus, let alone sit anywhere she wanted. Respect the views and good will of other passengers and/or those who believe you should use a different drinking fountain. Yup, makes a lot of common sense.

Good will to all!

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

@
Inis Magrath

Fort Kent Mills, ME

Very well stated. Thank you!!

Shazandra
Bakersfield, CA

@Schnee- Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19), ancient Rome and Greece. Show us a society that has flourished while defiling the Biblical God, the Holy One of Israel's laws. Hittites, Amorites, Edomites, Sodomites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Tyre & Sidonites all gone. The Philistines, however, are still causing the same ruckus God said they would, (Gen. 16:12).

@Ranch- Good point. But I can't deny services to the morally bankrupt, unfaithful spouses, sexually promiscuous, pedophiles or practitioners of bestiality in my over-regulated Big Brother state or nation. I am dominated and subjugated into the liberal Think-Like-Us-or-Leave enforcers.

Even our own military is rife with rape and promiscuity that their leaders refuse to vilify or rectify. So all society suffers from rebellion and heathen practices. Adding another legalized abomination to Satan's arsenal won't solve man's unhappiness, but it does embolden the Deceiver. At least the Taliban got some things right.

Shazandra
Bakersfield, CA

Thank you for a good article, Whitney. Anyone who has ever attended a Gay Pride parade or public debate on the issue knows exactly who the rude intoletant ones predominantly are. The Westboro Baptists are the exception.

I would clarify that simply stating your objections to a particular practice, whether abortion, stem cell research, euthanasia or SSMarriage, does not constitute bigotry per se. Being against a practice does not mean you hate the practicioners. And legalizing en-utero murder is not softened or abrogated by renaming it "pro-choice". It is still the choice to murder a viable fetus/pre-human being. Period.

The young woman here was trying to give helpful advice to the rowdy crowd in her group. Hope they listen. But nice or rude will never change God's Word for Biblical adherents. It just keeps the discussion on a civil level so all opinions can be heard.

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

TheReader: "The LGBT community will never be satisfied."

Part of the problem in keeping things civil in a discussion is making broad generalizations. The LGBT community is 3-10% of the population. It includes a broad range of people. It has more variety than the Village People. Any population that includes Log Cabin Republicans and Radical Fairies cannot be said to speak with a single voice or have a single, homogeneous identity. There is no Gay Agenda. There are 10-20 million gay agendas (although many of them will overlap). In any population this size there are bound to be jerks just as there are bound to be some really nice people. The same applies to marriage traditionalists, Mormons, evangelicals, florists, bakers, etc. The nice people really don't have a lot of control over the jerks, except we can call them out when they misbehave. And we can try to be more precise in our language, saying "some in the LGBT community will never be satisfied" instead of making a sweeping blanket statement. I know adding qualifiers cuts into the 200 word limit, but it keeps the discussion accurate and, well, more civil.

Vic Steblin
Prince Geoprge, BC, Canada, 00

I became tolerant and respectful when I realized that humans are creative and made up all this stuff in the first place. Languages, marriage customs, novels, holy books, music, religions, Santa, God, even thousands of Christian denominations; all made up.

Schwa
South Jordan, UT

I get really annoyed when the Christian-right tries to claim that they are the ones being victimized in this discussion. The LGBT community isn't the one trying to make your lifestyle against the law.

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