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Comments about ‘Evangelical leaders, Mormons unite in message of faith’

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Published: Monday, Jan. 20 2014 7:30 p.m. MST

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Karen R.
Houston, TX

@ Danite

"We live it times where all faith based groups will face major challenges politically. It's already starting to happen."

If your goal is preserve the First Amendment's promise of religious liberty, then I would advise you to join forces with atheists. Religionists convinced that their way is the one right way are their own worst enemy when it comes to religious freedom.

brian of ohio
Kent, OH

freedom is being taken in all forms. For instance birth control. You might say it is someones right to use it. Fine, but let them pay for it or go get it, or choose that option in their healthcare. Instead we are forced to provide it against our moral values(RELIGION).
@ karen - you misunderstand religion with that point of view. There are many good Atheists out there, many of my friends are. However Christian religions preach one way to salvation, and that is through Christ, Not that there is only one way to be good. There are many many many ways to be good and do Good. Like being a doctor vs being a dentist. Both good professions, both ways you can serve and help others. However, all people still need Christ regardless of how much good they do because we have ALL fallen short. Atheists are trying to do it alone which is fine, whereas I believe God blesses those who listen and obey him with ADDITIONAL help that maybe an Atheist would not receive.
-God gives strength(would say more but at limit), not condemns.

brian of ohio
Kent, OH

@pacnwmom, I certainly could be wrong, --- Still, By being LDS you sustain the Prophets and apostles and being directed of God I assume. WHen they stand up in conference and say our religious freedoms are being taken, it seems like as someone inspired of God that you would just take that at face value if nothing else. Call that blind obedience, or call it faith, or call it I have listened to what they say in the past and know it to be true, so I believe this as well. Either way, its easy to see that freedoms in general are being taken very slowly, (or sometimes not so slowly and that should be alarming). Inlcuding religious freemdoms. You can't pray in public anymore hardly. Try it. Go to a public meeting and request that the meeting start with a prayer. If we are free to practice, and government can't support/OR deny any religion. Out of respect you would think people would allow you to. Not so. Prayer can't be in our government :(

Any way I look at it, your point of view is kindof shocking to me.

desert
Potsdam, 00

Nice to have this article and "christian gathering" to make us think about the circumstances around us.

I like to (carefully) introduce the idea that comes with Christ when he said :...for he that is not against us. is on our part...

We should be realistic in seeing the people around us in church as being of very different in faith and opinion, same goes among Christians and the world with all the features of philosophies and opinions. That would mean a grouping together of a common people with same ideas would be contraproductive in a way.

To be straight forward, I tend more to support missionary work for to find individuals and families, rather than gather together the "Nephites" against the Lamanites.
We all know how that ended.
Just saying.

skrekk
Dane, WI

Can anyone cite an example of the "religious freedom being lost" that Mormon Elder Holland referred to?

Denying minorities the services of your business isn't "religious freedom", nor is denying minorities the legal right to marry.

Seriously, does anyone have an actual example where religious freedom has been denied in the US?

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Free Agency But as my own religion, Judaism ,And I *wholeheartedly* agree with you that it's terrible to teach a child that s/he's inherently bad.

(Psalm 51:5 NIV) I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

(Psalm 58:3 NLT): These wicked people are born sinners; even from birth they have lied and gone their own way.

(1Cor 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Karen R.
Houston, TX

I don’t think it’s freedom that Christians are losing. I think it’s privilege. Christians – particularly white Christians – used to run the show in our country. They got away with many unconstitutional things simply by virtue of numbers and ignorance. We just know too much now and more and more people are learning that there is no one way to approach one’s life. There is no one way that provides lasting meaning.

And so Christians are now being challenged to justify their privileged status and when they cannot, they are losing it. To some this feels like persecution or a loss of freedom. Personally, I think what they’re experiencing is the uncomfortable distance that must be traveled from “superior” to “equal.”

Free Agency
Salt Lake City, UT

@Sharrona,

Your Biblical quotes don't represent the full spectrum of Judaism. Most Jews don't believe that the Bible is "the inerrant Word of God," so a verse written in the Iron Age is certainly not going to be taken as Holy Writ by most of us if it doesn't resonate with us. Especially since Judaism, like Mormonism, believes in ongoing revelation.

Judaism considers the feelings and acts of one's heart, if they're loving, to have more authority than any formal doctrine. That's why the majority of Jews are, for example, supporters of gays and gay marriage.

junkgeek
Agua Dulce, TX

I can't think, yet, of a single right Mormons have that's being threatened.

Rikitikitavi
Cardston, Alberta

@pacnwmom
Can I share some situations where religious freedoms are truly being threatened in the U.S.A: If I am a wedding photographer or a wedding caterer and I refuse for religious reasons to accept same-sex customers I may face fines and/or prosecution. If I am a parent who insists on being informed when homosexuality is being taught to my children, certain jurisdictions refuse me the right to be informed so I may withdraw my children that day. These are only a few real situations where my religious freedoms are denied. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Jamescmeyer
Midwest City, USA, OK

I enjoy occasions such as this. In the normal days of life, other Christians focus too much on how I differ from them, without opening their heart or expressing patience or acceptance for the idea of someone worshipping Christ without holding to arbitrary creeds or agreements. There is so much common ground, and there are so many shared views and beliefs that are inntegral and necessary.

More and more we see that those who aren't explicitly for God seem to array themselves specifically against him, especially in the developed world. History shows us where that inevitably leads.

eastcoastcoug
Danbury, CT

@Desert

I think the real question is whether we are acting in harmony with what Christ taught. His prayer for his followers was that they "would be one" as He - Christ - is with His Father. So rather than invalidating Christianity, I would say we just need to live up to the standard and expectation of Christ.

As for the Atheists, the greatest wars in the last century (most deaths of any century) were started by and indeed fought between fellow Atheists - Stalin vs. Hitler, Ho Chi Minh, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. WWI was about colonies, industrial rivalry, etc. Not religion. Besides, this whole focus of American and British Atheists on religious war is wholly Western-centric and largely ignores broader history.

Hatred and war is a just a sickness - a plague - of mankind. I'm not saying wars haven't been religious based, but rather that hatred starts war. God does not. God wants us to live in peace.

You know that....

Luvutah
TORREY, UT

Truth is very simple. There is ONLY love. Practice daily. All else is fear, or one of its many disguises.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Free Agency,Most Jews don't believe that the Bible. What about the Jewish feasts of Lev 23?

The first four of the seven feasts occur during the springtime (Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Weeks), and they all have already been fulfilled by Christ in the N.T.

The final three holidays (Trumpets, the Day of Atonement, and Tabernacles) occur during the fall, all within a short fifteen-day period. i.e..

Passover (Lev 23:5) – The Messiah as our Passover lamb (1 Cor 5:7) whose blood would be shed for our sins. Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation for the Passover at the same hour that the lambs were being slaughtered for the Passover meal that evening.

First Fruits (Lev 23:10) – The Messiah's resurrection as the first fruits of the righteous. Jesus was resurrected on this very day, one of the reasons that Paul refers to him in 1 Cor 15:20 as the "first fruits from the dead.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

There are many commenting about how good intentions is the answer and all that is necessary. Those people usually don't understand what the Atonement of Christ really is, why it was made, and to what end is it's totally necessity for their salvation.

It's not enough to just assume you know. Many even confuse it with the crucifixion of Christ... though they were 2 different acts and primarily for 2 different purposes.

The Atonement was and is the greatest event in the history of our world... though only a small percentage of people yet realize it. When accepted, it opens the door for individuals to be rectified and rejoined back to God the Father. It's what makes Christ literally our Savior.

As Christ said in Matthew 7:14, "Strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to eternal life. And few there be that find it."

In verse 22 he adds, "Many will say, 'Lord, have we not prophesied and done many wonderful works in your name?' And I will profess to them, 'I never knew you: depart from me."

Good intentions and deeds are not enough by themselves. More is required.

Tators
Hyrum, UT

@ Karen R:

Please give several explicit examples of the "many unconstitutional things that Christians got away with" in our country for so long. If there are so many things (as you contend), then naming several should be easy. Please be specific.

And as a natural followup, please explain what "privileges" (rather than rights) that Christians are now losing... as you wrote. In so doing, please explain the differences between a privilege and a right, per your understanding of those concepts.

And why do you differentiate between "white Christians" and Christians in general? It would seem you are trying to be contentious and inimical in using several disjunctive statements about Christianity in our country.

BTW: As you said, "there is more than one way to approach life and find meaning in it".
That is true, particularly in a temporal sense. But there truly is only one way (God's way) and one path (a narrow one at that) that leads to everlasting and eternal life... beyond our temporal sphere.
To deny that in light of Christ's personal declaration and sacrifice is a rationalization, and perhaps even a self justification... and nothing more, unless simply mired in moral ignorance.

Objectified
Tooele, UT

@ junkgeek:

You missed the primary context of this article. The issue isn't about Mormon rights, though the meeting took place in a Mormon building. It's about ALL different Christian denominations' rights that are gradually being eroded.

A few examples...

The latest: Obamacare mandates force business owners to pay for insurance services that violate their faith (abortion, contraceptives, etc)... even if none of their employees need those particular coverages.

Grade school kids have recently been kicked out of school for carrying a copy of the Bible in their shoulder-bags.

Non-denominational prayers are no longer allowed in public... even with just a small group and nobody having any objections to it.

It's now easier to display pornography than it is a religious symbol in public.

Many municipalities will no longer allow Christmas trees and/or allow schools to sing Chrismas carols... even during Christmas.

Government employees (and even many store employees) are no longer allowed to say "Merry Christmas" to fellow employees and/or customers.

Military personnel can no longer approach a fellow soldier about his religion... even if the approached has no objection.

These are just a few examples of an ever growing list.

Karen R.
Houston, TX

@ Tators

Constitutional trespasses, past and present:
Mandated prayer in publicly-funded schools
Federal recognition of Christian holidays (Christmas; Good Friday)
Nativity scenes on government property
Ten Commandments posted in government buildings
References to “God” in Pledge of Allegiance and on money

Privileges (now being challenged):
Governmental recognition and sanction of all beliefs and actions represented above
Violating with near impunity the religious freedom of non-Christians as a consequence
Immunity from criticism and critical scrutiny of Christian theology and dogma
Undue influence in government and governmental policy

“Particularly white Christians” was not intended as contentious, inimical, or even judgmental, but rather as objectively factual.

Neither religion nor a belief in gods is required to be moral.

As to your belief in “Christ’s personal declaration,” it is met with equal force by my belief that there are no gods. Similarly your conviction that you know “the one right way” is met with my equally strong conviction that life is a lot more beautiful and amazing without the oppressive filter of religion.

Under our Constitution, these beliefs are EQUAL.

This is my 4th, thus last, post here. You get the last word.

SCfan
clearfield, UT

What this tells me is that people who are Christian, regardless of denomination, have much in common in basic values. With the world/U.S. going so secular and value free in recent times, more and more people of religious values are going to need to come together on issues rather than be in opposition due to doctrinal differences. Hopefully it will be a two way street.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Tators, Those people usually don't understand what the Atonement of Christ really is, why it was made, and to what end is it's totally necessity for their salvation.

'A-tone-ment' is fanciful English word and not a N. T. word. rendered 'reconciliation' in Rom 5:11 in most translations and according to Vine should be rendered 'reconciliation' always.

(Luther,Calvin ) The atonement of Christ as being a vicarious, substitutionary sacrifice that satisfied the demands of God’s justice upon sin. With His sacrifice, Christ paid the penalty of man’s sin, bringing forgiveness, imputing righteousness, and reconciling man to God.

Those who hold this view believe that every aspect of man—his mind, will, and emotions—have been corrupted by sin and that man is totally depraved and spiritually dead.

This view holds that Christ’s death paid the penalty for sin and that through faith man can receive Christ’s substitution as payment for sin. This view of the atonement aligns most accurately with Scripture in its view of sin, the nature of man, and the results of the death of Christ on the cross.

E.g.. (The sacrificial system of the Jewish temple),

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