Comments about ‘Poll: Majority of Utahns against same-sex marriage and say states have the right to decide’

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Published: Saturday, Jan. 18 2014 10:00 p.m. MST

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Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

I cringe a bit when people say something like "marriage has been the foundation of civilization for the past "6000 years". Societies and cultures that many would consider to be uncivilized also recognized the distinct but equal roles that fathers and mothers have in the raising of children. I would presume that the same was true before the dawn of civilization.

Perhaps in the next generation will approve SSM. But at least, it won't be my generation that decides after 100,000 years of human society that children don't need a father and a mother.

Clinton
Draper, UT

@jrp7sen What makes you think that the same people who oppose same-sex marriage don't also oppose divorce? Just because it isn't in the news five times a day doesn't mean people don't care about it.

Regarding the myriad questions about polling, polls differ because the questions in each poll differ and because the people being asked in each poll differ.

Noodlekaboodle
Poplar Grove, UT

"....and say if gay marriage were legal, Utah should pass laws to protect places of worship from having to perform weddings for gay and lesbian couples."

So right now the LDS church restricts who has access to their temples. Only members in good standing are allowed to enter past the lobby. No one has tried to force them to allow straight non mormon couple to get married, or to allow friends and family that aren't LDS to be able to go to the wedding. Since getting gay married is against the LDS rules it would make them ineligible to be married in the temple. Since the LDS churches right to allow whom they want to get married in the temple hasn't changed, it seems like a second law would be overkill.

Sunset
Orem, UT

@ Bruce A. Frank

Let's be honest. You cannot show a single case in which a church has faced pressure to violate their own religious beliefs. Businesses, yes, but those don't have rights. The religious community does not have a legal monopoly on marriage. Nobody's religious rights are violated if I get a gay marriage, just like mine aren't violated if you get a straight marriage. No church is being forced to provide facilities or services to accommodate beliefs with which they disapprove. All laws that have expanded services to minorities, such as the contraception mandate, have explicitly provided exemptions for churches. Sorry, but religious freedom is more under threat from radical evangelicals trying to use the state to ban mosques or police departments that use religion as a basis for systemic discrimination and spying.

@ Clinton

The problem is that some claim religious rights where there are none. You don't have a religious right to government support of your faith, or to impose your faith on others. Heterosexuality is forced on others ALL the time. Our culture is saturated in it. If straight people don't have to hide their sexuality, neither should gay people.

Clinton
Draper, UT

Hello, Dennis,

You said, "Discrimination and bigotry are illegal," however, that isn't entirely true.

Bigotry is not illegal because you can't legislate how somebody feels about somebody else. For example, it is perfectly legal for me to have unflattering feelings and opinions regarding police officers from Baker County, Oregon. It is also legal for me to discriminate and deny services in my business to certain people, which is why the shoeless and shirtless in our society are so repressed.

What we cannot do, because it is explicitly spelled out in our laws, is discriminate against somebody because of their religion or their race. However, we discriminate all the time against people's sexual preferences, such as laws that prevent polygamy, so doing so is obviously not illegal.

Clinton
Draper, UT

@kolob1 No, that really isn't the case, and a quick search on Huffington Post alone will show you plenty of examples where churches and businesses have been sued for refusing to service homosexual couples. Therefore, we obviously need explicit laws in place that bolster the Constitution and defend the rights of people who don't want to support same-sex marriage in their churches and businesses, since activist judges don't seem to be deterred enough by the Constitution alone.

Archie1954
Vancouver, BC

There seems to be a little matter of the Constitution and the separation of church and state involved here. Perhaps if the people of Utah feel very deeply about this matter they should petition to leave the United States of America which would allow them to live under a theocracy.

Karen R.
Houston, TX

@ LovelyDeseret - What is moral about discriminating against another human being for no rational reason?

@ Esquire in re: the meaninglessness of the poll: I agree with your point: A poll isn't relevant to the Constitutional issue at hand. What it is useful for is to reveal the movement of hearts and minds in the direction they always go when knowledge and information begin to win. They "bend towards justice."

moniker lewinsky
Taylorsville, UT

People have the right to decide for themselves; not others. I know this can be a terribly difficult concept to grasp. But this is how it works.
Yes, religious freedoms should still be protected. But it should not be necessary to withhold rights from one party in other to protect the rights of another. We're smarter than that. We can figure out a way.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The problem with polls is in the way the questions are ask.

Example:

1. Do you oppose same sex marriage? Most will answer Yes.

2. Do you oppose personal freedom? Most will answer NO.

3. Do you oppose the personal freedom to marry someone of your own sex?

4 Do you oppose the use of the word marriage for same sex marriage?

5. Do you oppose giving same sex partners the same economic advantages that traditional marriage partners have?

Oatmeal
Woods Cross, UT

Sad. Those who argue for traditional marriage and against SSM are called "haters" and "wolves" in the comments. Is this in keeping with the new Desnews policy?

worf
Mcallen, TX

Has any society prospered with "gay marriage", as a norm?

Henry Drummond
San Jose, CA

I think this poll confirms a trend that those who follow this issue on a national basis have noticed. Utah seems willing to compromise on this issue - far more than other states. All three recent polls show a majority favor Civil Unions (something Amendment 3 precludes by the way).

To quote a previous Deseret News article:

"Utah is seeing the same kind of movement that we see in the United States generally," said Chris Karpowitz, a BYU political science professor and fellow at the center. "We're getting massive change in public opinion in a very short period of time." "What makes Utah voters different," Karpowitz says, is that they are moving "not toward full support of marriage equality but toward civil unions." (Deseret News July 9, 2012)

rick122948
boise, id

When will we ever learn to accept that one person forcing their belief on another that holds different beliefs is never right. Our ancestors fought a revolution to assert their rights against the tyranny of the king. Denying the minority equal protection under the law is just as tyrannical.

The Real Maple Syrup
Ogden, UT

I am pretty certain that this headline would have read the same fifty years ago, only with "segregation" in place of "gay marriage."

When states decide that they aren't going to protect the right of all it's citizens, then it's the job of the Federal Government to step on and do it. Just like the Little Rock Five.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ LovelyDeseret

This country is not, nor has it ever been, a democracy. We are a republic and are ruled by the Constitution.

InLifeHappiness
Salt Lake City, UT

The Governor’s statement at the end of the article shows irony – Governor now states he upholds the law, yet previous news articles show this governor and Utah A.G. disallowed government officials to uphold Shelby’s ruling and even closed government offices to same sex couples. Federal A.G. Holder had to issue a federal statement to uphold Shelby’s ruling in Utah to override their non-compliance once again to recognize the Utah SSM marriages, allow them to continue paperwork with driver licenses, SSN, etc. Whether the Utah governor and Utah A.G. will be prosecuted for these multiple infractions are unknown, but indicative of the government hypocrisy existing in Utah. This poll is also interesting, as 26% of SLC are composed of same-sex parents according to UCLA Law Review, SLC has been one of the top gay city for the past five years, and religious fervor has minimized throughout the years. Other polls printed recently show the opposite. Is this why the state needs more time to prepare their appeal - are they unable to find legal means to support the Amendment 3?

Jleydsman
utah, UT

In following this lawsuit I find it unusual that a judge would not order an immediate stay (like in Oklahoma) for such a controversial situation. Also, the original date of 1/7/14 was suddenly changed to late December.Also, the number of people who were married in a couple of days indicates maybe they were notified, in advance, that the date change and lack of a"stay", were coming! As time goes by it looks very suspicious.

Chilidog
Somewhere, IL

It would appear that the majority of Utahns, if this poll is correct, are also opposed to the US Constitution.

How else would you explain the total disregard for the protections of the 14th amendment?

Anyone providing buisness services to the public must do so to all members of the public.

Discrimination for whatever reason is ugly, immoral and wrong.
If you advocate for the right to discriminate, then you have some real problems.

Chilidog
Somewhere, IL

Bruce Frank stated: "The real problem as I see it is that the homosexual community wants to force same sex marriage on the religious community. "
_______________
Bruce, do you have any actual evidence to support this claim? I have been following this issue for a while now, and I have yet to see a single example of any gay people "forcing themselves on the religious community" that you claim.

In fact, it is often the other way around with various religeous communities forcing their particular beliefs on others.

Which, if I am not mistaken, is exactly what you are trying to do here.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but it is this type of attitude that you share with many others, an attitude that your view is the only acceptable view, that is the real issue here. Same sex marriage will have exactly zero impact on your life. So what is the basis of your objection to it?

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