Comments about ‘Are rate changes needed for customers who generate their own power?’

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Published: Saturday, Jan. 18 2014 3:00 p.m. MST

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Boise, CA

simplified, the argument they are making is if enough people switch, then the variable income would drop to a point that it wouldn't cover the fixed costs.

Provo, UT

Oh, the humanity! Rocky Mountain Power, now concerned with "treating customers fairly," while they lobby for yet another rate increase.

Bountiful, UT

I don't produce power. I don't think it unfair to encourage people who do. Early adopters will pave the way for the rest of us to do this eventually as prices for this technology decreases.

Layton, UT

All across the country power companies are trying to slow the adoption of solar power by home owners. They use a number of "good" reasons for this but the real reason is that the use of solar panels by home owners is a disruptive technology for their monopoly.

The fairness issue is interesting because there is a real debate about whether net metering for home owners costs the utility or pays them. There are reduced infrastructure costs for the utility when solar panels are in use. Solar panels have a close match to the highest need for power by the utility. Both are at their highest on hot summer days. The thing is no one knows what to count and not count. Until there is agreement on that, no one can know whether the current rates are fair or not.

Something that is known is that taxpayers have spent billions on getting us to the point that solar power is cost effective for the individual home owner. As soon as this happens the power companies do all they can to make sure it is not. Now is that fair?

Mainly Me
Werribee, 00

"Are rate changes needed for customers who generate their own power?"


Murray, UT

" approximately 2,200 customers like Rossetti who are residential energy producers are being subsidized unfairly by customers who do not produce power."

Yes, that is exactly what every government solar program has done, and every solar provider has reaped big benefits. They have taken from everyone to make money on solar.

So why is Solyndra good when they do it and a home owner evil when he does it? Sounds like crony capitalism to me.

Baron Scarpia
Logan, UT

What they need to do is follow the path that Questar Gas did and "de-couple" the infrastructure cost from variable cost of natural gas. I use very little natural gas in my home, but still pay a $5 per month connection fee. RMP should do something similar to this.

What RMP is NOT publicizing is how having so much distributed solar throughout its service territory actually bolsters their overall system, especially during peak load times when the sun is shining and everyone has their air conditioning on. RMP typically has to buy power at the highest rates during these peak times, but private solar panels curb their need to make those purchases because that is when the panels are producing the most power.

As a public service monopoly, RMP needs to be working on behalf of its ratepayers -- not just their shareholders.

At a time when we have excessive air pollution and tightening water resources, solar producers are contributing to better air quality and reduced water use (less reliance on coal-fired steam plants), and those solar owners should be recognized/compensated for their reductions in overall pollution and water use in the state.

Murray, UT

Somehow, those that think it is fair for individuals to get retail rates for excess power generated from solar and wind power at their residences need to look at the whole picture. They currently are myopic.

For homeowners to sell power back to the power company, they need to sell it on the power grid. Yet the homeowners do not pay for designing, maintaining, building, or operating the grid. Yet they want full retail payments for power they generate? That is both naive and unfair. If they go off the grid and generate 100% of their own power, great, go for it. If they are using the local power companies power lines, then they should pay a fee for the use of the local power companies lines. That is only fair.

But then those that want to sell excess power, but not pay for the use of the lines, they could always go through the same process that every power generation company does, they can design, get approval from the State, buy the right-of-way, build, maintain, and operate their own grid.

New to Utah

Net metering folks should not be subsidized
by the ratepayers who in many cases are on
fixed income. The utility laws need to be updated
to reflect costs.

terra nova
Park City, UT

The proposed rate change is based on absolutely absurd reasoning.

The net-metering tariff only keeps track of how much power was pushed into the grid. The home-owner uses most of it immediately. If they make a little extra, the meter runs backward. If not, it runs forward. It is NET metering.

RMP benefits because the excess power made comes at a time when need is greatest (peak solar power output coincides almost perfectly with peak air-conditioning demand). Solar actually smooths RMP's demand spikes. If you follow RMP's reasoning, THEY should actually PAY people spending $28,000 (for the totally FREE solar infrastructure they provide the grid).

Letting them use the power they generate seems pretty reasonable.

Plus solar is clean. Every solar system helps get rid of the inversion. Plus solar distributes power production, making it harder to take down. Those with solar on the roof should be hailed as heros. We need more solar, not less.

Provo, UT

Power companies should only have to pay net-metering companies the same wholesale rate that they pay to any other provider.

But, then again, I would be happy to see the dinosaur utility companies go extinct by having each consumer source their own utilities wherever possible and to the extent possible.

A Quaker
Brooklyn, NY

The "subsidized" argument is nonsense. It's just a divide-and-conquer tactic. Make the average customer jealous at those who have invested in solar installations, so they can get their rate increase. In fact, having power distributed on the retail-customer grid means that the utility doesn't need to spend additional money on infrastructure to bring power to the grid from elsewhere. That money would make them more money.

Utilities generally get granted rates on an investment "cost plus" basis. In these days of low interest rates, they'd love to be able to invest lots more in plant and lines so they can make whatever the public utility commission will allow them to on their investment, typically 6% or more annually. Also, those last few kilowatt-hours that they would otherwise have to buy on the emergency/peak market are super-expensive, and an additional source of revenue/markup. And those residential solar generators are spoiling their corporate financials.

D Mike
Rochester, NY

Should I pay more at the store for lettuce if I also have a home garden, too? These large corporations are silly for trying to convince the general population that somehow an "invisible subsidy" is being affected for when they generate their own electricity. And then translate this "invisible subsidy" into a dollar amount that qualifies as a rate increase? If customers sold the electricity they generate, then I could see a conflict. But generating and using their own energy? Utah is doing the right thing by investigating these dubious claims, and correctly rewarding consumers who are smarter than the system and -- more importantly -- financially able to put in a $28,000 solar panel system. Give the guy credit. He made a smart investment! Hopefully more people can do likewise!

Fairview, UT

I don't know how smart it is to spend $28,000 to save $130-$180 per month. The payoff, discounting considerable ongoing maintenance, is 155 to 215 summer months, or 26-36 years, assuming 6 months of a/c use. Those are very rough figures but that's still not a very financially savvy strategy.
The reason solar energy has not been more widely used is simple economics- it's still way too expensive even when it's generated on economies of scale and has to be subsidized by unwilling taxpayers. The future may bring improvements in solar generation but the future is not here now. Personally, I'm waiting until we can capture lightening in a bottle- with the recent announcement of advanced chemical storage batteries, that is likely closer than widespread economical solar.

Bountiful, UT

re Fitz
Murray, UT

Somehow, those that think it is fair for individuals to get retail rates for excess power generated from solar and wind power at their residences need to look at the whole picture. They currently are myopic.


While all the points you make are correct, you need to look at the whole picture. These people are contributing to cleaner air for all of us. These people are paying early (higher) prices for solar technology. If this industry is to grow, the early adopters will be needed. They are paving the way for the rest of us.

Natural resources are finite and I appreciate cleaner air. I am willing to pay slightly higher rates to pay to encourage early adopters of solar technology.

Redding, CA

RMP and their friends and supporters in this debate need to step back and look at the bigger picture. I'll attempt to show them.
We all use electricity and nat gas.
We all want to reduce pollution from combustion related methods of making electricity.
We all want to promote sustainable and enviromentally friendly ways of making electricity.
There are other ideals we all want as far as power for our industries and homes.
So RMP should support those (few) of us who buy a solar panel array for our home's roof. Looking at the big picture, RMP should get on the solar band wagon and cover any and all of their buildings' roofs with solar panels, they should join in a cooperative way any and all groups that operate rooftop systems. And RMP should spread the cost of designing, developing new voltage controls to accomodate the variability of solar (and wind) power, spread that cost over all users, or better yet over the stockholders.

RMP does need money to operate their system; RMP deserves a return on their investment; RMP does not have a good reason to hit the wallets of the rooftop solar innovators.

Chris from Rose Park
Hartford, CT

I have not made my opinion as of yet on the topic. However, I did notice a logical inconsistency of Sara Baldwin Auck, Utah Clean Energy senior policy and regulatory associate. She said, "It should not be the policy of Utah to interfere in the market and stifle competition. Instead, Utah should continue to encourage personal investments in energy efficiency and renewable energy."

At the beginning of the article, the author wrote, "Rocky Mountain Power claims that under current state regulations, the company is required to credit customers for excess generation at the full retail rate..."

Auck said she doesn't want Utah policy to intefere with the market. However, Utah policy is already intefering with the market by forcing the power company to crediting net-metering people more than they would like. Really, Auck is saying, she currently likes the way the government has interfered because it helps her cause. I don't disagree with Auck that people, such as herself, should be reimbursed for the energy they provide. I do disagree with how she states her opinion, because it makes it sound like she is promoting less government (something most Utah residents like) when she is not.

Orem, UT

In all, Rossetti estimates he spent $28,000 on the project, but he received a 30 percent tax break as an incentive...We wanted to reduce our (electricity) bills,” Rossetti explained...His monthly cost for air conditioning in the warm weather months has gone from the $250 to $300 range to about $120. Thus far, it has been a worthwhile investment, Rossetti said."

He needs to learn a thing or two about "investing". Assuming the maximum savings ($180) for the 4 months each year we need air conditioning, that equates to about $720 a year. Even if you expanded it to $1000 savings per year, it would take 28 years to break even (assuming money spent today has the same value as money spent 27 years from now).

I will invest in solar power when my ROI is 5 years or less (without defraying the cost onto some other taxpayer through a subsidy). Let me know when that is feasible.


A $5.00 dollar fee is going to offseet this huge burden? This proposal will generate $132,000.00. That's not even a drop in the bucket. Not to mention the fact that these customers actually provide free generating capacity during peak hours.

Centerville, UT

@Joe Capitalist. Solar panels generate electricity all year long, not just when air conditioning is being used. My solar system generated more than 25 kWh today. I did not use my air conditioning today.

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