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Published: Thursday, Jan. 16 2014 12:00 a.m. MST

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LDS Tree-Hugger
Farmington, UT

Agreed.

And we all know how 30 million global visitors flock to scenic North Dakota to enjoy the panaramic views of nature.

Do we want people to come here to take tar sand, or pictures?

Baron Scarpia
Logan, UT

I've also read that police are literally overwhelmed in these oil boomtowns where the influx of male workers, with nothing to do at night, venture toward booze, gambling, crime, and rape.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Petrochemical extraction has a price, no matter where it occurs. Social, environmental, you name it. We need to learn this; I see it all the time. It can also bring tremendous benefits. I see that, too. One thing, however, is sure. We're not doing anything to wean ourselves from it. So, we've made the deal, and we're sticking with it. We want the oil, abundant and cheap as possible. For better or for worse, we're going to have to accept what it takes to get it.

Thinkin\' Man
Rexburg, ID

Wow, I can't believe people are arguing against prosperity!

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

An extractive economy is environmentally dirty. It creates boom-n-bust jobs for low-skilled workers. It leaves devastated towns and landscapes in its wake. North Dakota is booming now, but when the boom is over? What then? I prefer a Utah with a clean, high-tech economy and unique, unspoiled landscapes that draw a booming and sustainable tourist industry. Utah, do you really want your children's future to be all about digging for coal and oil?

LDS Tree-Hugger
Farmington, UT

Conservative love Benjamin Franklin,
who once said:

"A penny saved, is a penny earned."

This applies to EVERYTHING, even oil.

Which then begs this:

What DO conservatives conserve anyway?,
and why do they hate Benjamin Franklin?

Lowonoil
Clearfield, UT

Most successful wealth building strategies depend on privatizing profits and socializing costs. This letter provides excellent examples of the sorts of costs the energy industry is so good at socializing.

LDS Libertarian
Farmington, UT

Yes, let's look at all the jobs it will create?

construction,
excuvation,
truck drivers,
welders,
oil rig workers,
hotels,
lawyers,
and
fast food drive ups.

No to mention the:
bars,
prostitutes,
drug dealers
and others cashing in on the deal.

Mark B
Eureka, CA

A true thinking person knows that prosperity always comes at a price, even if the price is simply gaining a new skill set. This includes the price paid to explore for and extract oil and natural gas. After all, tap water that can be burned doesn't happen by itself.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Prosperity would be relative when the negatives outweigh the positives for most of humanity.
One of the great things about being human is those few people who may get rich off this can go find other things to do that are less destructive.
I've never understood the thought that we must consume it as rapidly as possible. What of future generations?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Some people will always find the gray lining in every silver cloud. This thread is a perfect example.

===

And the assumptions... Who is actually thinking "we must consume all resources as rapidly as possible"? Gotta love it when people put rediculus things nobody ever said into their opposition's mouth.

===

I'm not against developing our domestic energy resources now. I used to support using foriegn energy resources and saving as much of ours for emergencies and the future as possible. But times have changed. So my opinion has changed. I still believe we should conserve as much as possible (on energy usage, also on government and personal spending). But now that foriegn energy sources are dwindling and the people controling them are funding terrorism with our $$$... I changed my mind. Now I think we should develop domestic resources we have been sitting on for generations. Not all of them, nor do I think we should use them as fast as we can... But we should start looking into them and developing the technologies we will need to use them... in case we need them.

OPEC can crush the American economy any time... we need to get away from that.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

55 gallons of gas = (1) SUV truck @ 600 miles.
55 gallons of gaa = (4) Toyota @ 600 miles, or (1) @ 2,400 miles.

A penny saved, is a penny earned.

That Benjamin Franklin was a genius!
Too bad conservatives don't believe him.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Open Minded,
How many gallons of deisel does it take to run FrontRunner for a day?

How many tons of coal to power the Trax Trains for day?

How much gas for all the busses UTA runs each day?

Don't think we need energy develpment... try doing that without any domestic coal or oil production (and OPEC setting the prices).

We still need that energy (Domestic or foriegn).

===

A liberal quoting "A penny saved, is a penny earned" as if Conservatives don't understand it or believe Ben Franklin... that's rich.

Democrats spend trillions pennies every minute in Washington. Tell your "A penny saved, is a penny earned" to Democrats who are never happy unless our Federal Budget increases by trillions of dollars each year.

I think both sides have a hard time understanding Franklin's qoute on frugality (not just one side. The one side you say doesn't understand him).

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT
Open Minded,
How many gallons of deisel does it take to run FrontRunner for a day?
[it carries 20,000 passengers per day = 468 passengers miles/gallon]

How many tons of coal to power the Trax Trains for day?
[I could look it up, but even better than front runner]

How much gas for all the busses UTA runs each day?
[bus=6mpg -- so 330 passenger miles/gallon]

1 truck/SUV
[11-12 passenger miles/gallon]

You do the math.

2 bit
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Open Minded

RE: "[bus=6mpg -- so 330 passenger miles/gallon]"...

So you fit 330 passengers on a bus? Not the ones that run around my neighborhood. They are mostly empty, and you couldn't fit 330 people on them even if it was free and all the pasengers were pygmys.

===

But you totally missed the point. The point isn't that mass transit is ineficient. The point is... we need fossil fuels to run every one of these options. Fossil fuels we either have to buy from some Saudi prince (who supports Alqaeda)... or the ones that give jobs to Americans like you and me.

Why are you so against it giving jobs to Americans and keeping those $$$ in the US Economy?

Why do you support sending those $$$ to Arabs that may use them to fund terrorist attacks?

Seems like your political talking-points are getting in the way of common sense on this one.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

There are fathers, good men, who have jobs to support their families because of the oil. IF there are bad apple dudes committing crimes, we have laws to address that. We just need enforcement, an executive branch duty.

I am sure when the Middle East Countries own and run and rule the world with the money they get from oil, things will be so much better. (Sarcastic) I can't wait for sharia law.

LDS Aerospace Engineer
Farmington, UT

@2 bit
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Open Minded
RE: "[bus=6mpg -- so 330 passenger miles/gallon]"...

========

I see we don't have a Math 101 student ---

330 passenger miles / 6 mpg = 55 passengers per bus.

Math -- F-

BTW --
I'm not "against" fossil fuels,
I'm an Engineer --
And God has given us knowledge to do better than we are doing now.

Remember,
We can not be saved in ignorance.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

People keep getting in the way of oil drilling. Darn people!

I wish that we could just drill everywhere at anytime!

Poor billionaire oil corporations!

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

If all this land is taken from the feds it will be given straight away to the energy companies. They will then destroy and pollute it. And then they will thank us and run. The feds will then have to pick up the clean-up tab so you don't die just to live here.

I prefer the status quo.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

I personally prefer jobs that don't pollute the waterways, the airways, the ecosystems and on and on. It can be done. It must be done.

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