Comments about ‘Why should we do more than just tolerate religion?’

Return to article »

Published: Thursday, Jan. 16 2014 4:56 p.m. MST

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Maudine
SLC, UT

"He was implying that religion is merely a choice, or as others have put it, you can’t pick your skin color, but you can pick your church.
"And yet many believers will tell you that few things in life are as deep-seated or personal as religious conviction. To many people, their faith is more than just a hereditary fact (my dad, his dad, etc., belonged to this church, and so do I); it is more than just belonging to a social club; it involves the convincing power of some sort of life-changing spiritual experience."

No matter how deeply you feel it, religion is a choice - which is why many churches have missionary branches and why all churches have conversion protocols.

This is not to say it is not an important choice or that it doesn't play a very powerful role in your life and other decisions, but it is a choice.

And when you ask society to respect your right to make that choice and to live your life accordingly, you need to realize there is a corresponding responsibility on you to respect others for their choices and allow them to live their lives accordingly.

cavetroll
SANDY, UT

Re: Mike Richards
"Religious bigots presume that they, like the pharisee in the parable, can thank God that he has made them "special" and that he has chosen to overlook their faults because of his greater love for them because of their "membership" while they point a finger at the "tax collector".

Sounds a lot like some members of a religion or two based here in Utah. Many religions have members who believe they are more special than others. Atheists also. So what exactly makes these particular people or religions "special"? Does the LDS prophet have the only communication with God? Why can't the Pope have communication with God? Why not the UAB? Why not Muslims,or Jews?

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

One only needs to remember the:

Taliban,
Inqusition,
Crusades,
Salem witch trials,
Ancient Israel,
Ancient Nephites,

I'm right, and my God told my Government so...

FYI -- Hitler said the same sort of things...

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

Cavetroll asked a significant question. The answer is simple. Do what a prophet of God does and ask God. Christ answered that question in 1820, so now you have to ask God if He has given that answer, if so, to whom, and if so, why should He repeat Himself? Unless you're willing to forsake everything in exchange for an answer, He mostly likely won't burden you with an answer. God holds us responsible for the answers he gives us. Curiosity is not sufficient reason. He clearly told us that we must have no others Gods before Him. If we don't believe that, why would He waste breath on giving answers? Isn't He capable of knowing when someone is just shopping for answers and when someone is sincere?

---

Ask a teacher what "An enstablishment" means. Then ask that teacher what "the establishment" means. Don't bother asking a lawyer, they'll find the answer that their customer wants to hear. Maybe it would be good to ask George Washington about God and religion. Maybe it would be good to read his inaugural address. Maybe he earned the right to tell us about God.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

I would just like to ask the "religion" victims here a couple quick and easy questions...

Did you support Muslims trying to build an Islamic Cultural Center in New York or did you oppose it?

Do you NOW support a Satanic group's plan for a 7-foot-tall statue of Satan at the Oklahoma State Capitol or do you oppose them?

That should be easy enough to sift true Religous Freedom supporters from the the Bigots.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Why can't the Pope have communication with God? Why not the UAB? Why not Muslims,or Jews?"

God loves all His children. He welcomes communication with them all -- the Pope, UAB [University of Alabama, Birmingham? Universal Accreditation Board? Armenians?], Muslims, Jews. Even atheists and liberals. They communicate with Him. He communicates with them.

But, when He speaks to the world, He has always done so through His prophets. That's His rule, not ours. I suspect it has to do with avoiding confusion, but He may have many other reasons, as well.

He's a LOT smarter that me. And you.

Point being, He doesn't need a lot of advice from us on how He should run the universe, nor does He need to explain His every move to us.

Every time we try to take on His role, we make a mess of it. He's not only a lot smarter than us, He's a lot better and more experienced at it than we are, and has a lot more information available to Him than we do.

But make no mistake -- He's happy to communicate with us.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

Remember a couple of years ago when citizens in Kansas and other states were passing amendments to their state constitutions prohibiting the implementation of Sharia Law?

Combining a couple of thought threads from the past couple of weeks:

-If the people of some township or city - say, Dearborn, Michigan, which has a large muslim community - decided they wanted to implement Sharia Law, and it was popularly decided, wouldn't this just be an example of Democracy in action? (The same type of democracy that the D-News says is being squashed by federal courts that overturn prohibition on same sex marriage)

-If the citizens of the State of Michigan amended their constitution to prohibit any township or city from implementing Sharia Law, wouldn't this also be an example of the religious being persecuted?

When you put the shoe on the other foot, and it really looks like a scuba diving flipper... maybe it's not really a shoe to begin with.

Ferretdancer
Bellaire, MI

Os Guinness argues that the way forward for the world lies in promoting freedom of religion and belief for people of all faiths. He sets out a vision of a civil and cosmopolitan global public square, and how it can be established by championing the freedom of the soul; the inviolable freedom of thought, conscience and religion. Freedom of thought and freedom of conscience.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

As a long term reader of comments, it has become fairly easy to guess what some posters will say before reading their posts. Some, like Roland K is respectful of others. He states his opinion, but not at the expense of those who disagree. To me, he is a gentleman and someone whom I enjoying reading. Others come to the forum with a point to prove but without having done their homework. I fall into that camp from time to time, thinking perhaps that I know the answer without checking to verify that what I think is completely factual. Those of us who do that are easily corrected by those who have done their homework. A third group tries to pick a fight.

When discussing religion, those like Rowland K. are automatic winners. Those who are teachable can become winners if they are, in fact, teachable. Those who try to pick a fight can't possibly win because they admit that their point of view is not supportable.

Everything God says and does is supportable. God's true religion, when fully understood, is fully supportable. True religion teaches us to become as He is.

Willem
Los Angeles, CA

Religion poisons everything it touches.

Ferretdancer
Bellaire, MI

"Os Guinness argues that the way forward for the world lies in promoting freedom of religion and belief for people of all faiths. He sets out a vision of a civil and cosmopolitan global public square, and how it can be established by championing the freedom of the soul—the inviolable freedom of thought, conscience and religion." Freedom of conscience (should you be blessed with one) is freedom of thought which is freedom of religion or non-religion. Religion and non-religion are equivalent to each other.

Vanceone
Provo, UT

I agree! Let's ban religion! So we can at last have an enlightened society like Stalin's Russia!

Oh, wait. Hmmm. Maybe Mao's China! Argh! Pol Pot? Fidel Castro? North Korea?

Hmm. Maybe a life without religion wouldn't be a panacea.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Vanceone: None of the atheists like to think about your enlightened thoughts; It is much easier to live in the lap of freedom and wealth created by that liberty and take pot shots at the courageous souls who defend it! It is nice to know the truth even when the deniers temporarily vie for a viewpoint-at least until the clock starts winding down on their no so clever views!

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

@Ultra Bob:
"The purpose of religion is the enslavement of the minds of people. The reason for that purpose is to garner the wealth and control of its members. "

It cuts both ways. I have seen atheists use moral relativism to disarm those with whom they disagree. "There is no morality so don't push your morality on others." Then the moment someone does something that they disagree with they suddenly want to put all sorts of requirements and restrictions on them. In effect, they are saying, "Your morality is relative, but mine is absolute."

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@Vanceone – “Let's ban religion! So we can at last have an enlightened society like Stalin's Russia! Oh, wait. Hmmm. Maybe Mao's China! Argh! Pol Pot? Fidel Castro? North Korea?”

Or Sweden or Canada or Denmark or Japan or New Zealand or Norway or Germany or Australia or… the list goes on and gets bigger all the time.

All present day countries that are largely agnostic/atheistic because their citizens shed their religious beliefs & superstitions, not at the point of a gun like in your sad but fortunately anomalous examples, but naturally through logic & reason and just growing up.

“Imagine all the people…”

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Tekakaromatagi

I don't really understand what it is that you are saying but it is probably true.

I see the push by the religious people to be ever so much stronger that the efforts of non-believers to push back. I guess religious people justify their one sided agenda because much of the push back that they receive comes from the natural man and the nature of the world itself. The wants and needs of the current life are often deemed more important than the imaginary world after death.

Whether or not God exists, religions and their churches are man made organizations that have seem to fit my description. The mere diversity of their story's indicates that they cannot all be true. But they could all be false.

The favoritism showed to religious organizations by our government is misplaced effort. Churches should be regarded as business organizations and subject to the regulation of all other business organizations.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

Ultra Bob,

"....The favoritism showed to religious organizations by our government is misplaced effort. Churches should be regarded as business organizations and subject to the regulation of all other business organizations."
______________________________

All things being equal, the HHS mandate position being staked out by Catholic and other religiously affiliated employers at first glances strikes me as untenable. They too know it is questionable, even as they invoke freedom of religion as their exemption from that specific provision of the law. I don’t know if the courts will side with them but the basic premise of their last ditch defense is not as rock solid as they are insisting it is.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

We don't tollerat religion. We tolerate people. And we should tolerate people regardless of their religious beliefs (as long as they don't think their religious beliefs give them the right and the obligation to blow up people they see as "infadels" for having a different faith.

Religion is an inanimate thing. It doesn't care if we "tolerate" it. It is what is is whether you tolerate it or not. People are what we need to be tolerant of.

And we should tolerate PEOPLE (regardless of their religious beliefs).

I don't care if you are tolerant of my religion or not... as long as you are tolerant of ME... and allow me to believe and practice any faith I want (as long as I'm not harming you).

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

2 bits,

"We don't tolerate religion. We tolerate people...."
______________________________

Bulls eye!

This article begins with the question, why should we do more than just tolerate religion? The question is provocative because it raises deeper questions such as: Can you really do more than just tolerate without favoring? How much should you tolerate from that which attempts to dominate?

Here's a more challenging question. How do we all learn to tolerate each other while we’re energetically pursuing our own self interests?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Craig Clark,

Good question (How do we all learn to tolerate each other while we’re energetically pursuing our own self interests?)

I don't think we need to not energetically pursue their own self interest. That's what Democracy is all about! If enough people share the same interest... they constitute the majority. But the harder question is... how do we prevent the majority from trampling the minority. That's a tougher question. I think Christ gave us the answer... but not every American believes what Christ taught us.

Hint... Love one another.

That's even BETTER than tolerating one another.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments