Published: Wednesday, Jan. 15 2014 12:00 a.m. MST
@2bitsThat's a good point. I don't care if you buy a car
on Sunday. But should I be required to WORK on Sunday so you can buy a car on
Sunday?I think that is the reason for it. Not just to prevent you
from buying a car on Sunday (or to force you to comply to a moral code).================================Why not let the free market
decide that? If everyone decided to not buy a car on Sunday, the dealerships
would not open. If the demand was there, shouldn't supply be allowed to
match demand?Isn't less government better?
@2BitsMaybe you aren't aware of why that law is in place. It's
because a car dealer who owned the Utah Jazz is LDS and didn't want to work
on Sunday. I'm 100% ok with that, but instead of just closing his dealers
on Sunday, and letting other businessmen make their own decisions, he forced his
morals onto everyone in the state, and lobbied successfully to mandate that
dealers could only be open one of two weekend days, essentially forcing all
dealers to close on Sunday. If you don't want to work on Sunday's that
is your right, but why is it one persons right to force all competing
business's to conform to their morals? If you don't want to work on
Sunday, get a job where you don't have to. I mean honestly if we were fair
to all 3 major religions, we wouldn't make anyone work on Friday(muslims)
Saturday(jews) or Sunday(christians) or we could just let them worship their
day, and let the rest of us work or purchase on whatever day we feel like.
@joe5 – “Tyler D: "(hint: unless you’re God, you
don’t, period.)" demonstrates a pretty closed mind. It implies that
because YOU haven't had spiritual confirmations, nobody can.That’s a fair point but it wasn’t the one I was making…My point was about knowing you have the RIGHT religion or more to the
point, since this is what many believe, that you have the right story and
everyone else does not.In the context of what happens after we die,
there is no objective way of knowing whether the Mormon story is correct or the
Hindu story is or some other religion is (assuming the stories are mutually
exclusive) or none of them are.That was my point…Now whether those “spiritual confirmations” provide factual
knowledge about the objective world is another matter. Personally, I can grant
the possibility that spiritual feelings might lead to subjective truths, but not
that these feelings can tell you, for example, that it is an historical fact the
Jews once lived in ancient America (with horses and steel swords, no less).
...the role of religious moral imperatives,... Johnny-come-lately role that
emerged only as an addition to our natural instincts for cooperation and
empathy. - The Bonobo and the Atheist - Frans De WaalMorality is
doing what is right regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you
are told regardless of what is right. -- AnonymousPeople use
religion for much, mostly to explain their own shortcomings. Books filled up by
foolish people who don't want to take control of their own lives. So, they
look for some divine providence to explain their desires.- Deliver us from Evil
to 2 bits 9:55 a.m. Jan. 15, 2014Normal is someone else's
definition of whats socially acceptable. to Tyler D 11:41 a.m. Jan.
15But, where would organized religion be w/o motivating through fear
Noodlekaboodle really nailed it. This Auto Dealer believed that his businesses
should be closed on sundays because of his religious beliefs and pious
appearance. Fantastic for him. However when it came down to it, he was losing
money on Sundays to the dealers that were open. By passing such a law it
protected his bottom line with crony capitalism, that forced his competition to
observe his religious traditions and forcefully remove their ability to profit
from a different business model, that provided a service which was determined by
the "free market."
@2bitsHere is were your logic falls apart, by state law if I own a
car company I cannot sale a car on Sunday, allowing me to make my own decisions
about my business is not forcing you to do anything , same with gay marriage no
one is doing anything other thnn saying gay people get to make their own choices
After all is said and done, I still like the apostle James' definition of
religion:"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father
is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep
himself unspotted from the world." James 1:27. All purported
religions should measure themselves against this standard.
Atheists might be disadvantaged if it turns out they're wrong and there is
a God... It's better to believe there is a God and be wrong than to believe
there ain't and be wrong.
Well, that's interesting Neanderthal. So by that logic, you
believe in Allah. After all it's better to believe Allah is God and be
wrong, then to believe he isn't and be wrong. Right? Or Zeus. You believe
in Zeus, right? After, by your logic. . . Or Apollo, or any of the other
hundreds (or thousands) of gods that have been worshipped. By your logic you
must believe in all of them. Because, after all, if you are wrong about the one
you choose. . . Well. . . Do you really want to take that chance? And some of
those gods are pretty jealous. So good luck.
The older I get, the more right "Imagine: by John Lennon" becomes.
LDS Liberal: Yes, the song "Imagine" (and I might add "From A
Distance" by Bette Midler) probably provide a pretty good description of the
Telestial Kingdom. To me, that is confirmation that God loves all his children.
After all, except for very few who deliberately disqualify themselves, all his
children will receive that as a minimum reward.However, I have
@Neanderthal – “Atheists might be disadvantaged if it turns out
they're wrong and there is a God... It's better to believe there is a
God and be wrong than to believe there ain't and be wrong.”Maybe the best response to Pascal’s Wager comes from Homer Simpson:“Suppose we’ve chosen the wrong god and every time we go to
church we’re just making him madder and madder.”
re: Mike Richards"Religion has the answers. Government begs the
question."Its not black or white, Mike. Neither aforementioned
entity is going to solve any/all problems. I feel sorry for those who think
either can or will.re: Open Minded Mormon"And Mike
-- PLEASE stop forcing everyone to live a Mormon lifestyle."Ironically!? If this were a discussion about comparing political ideologies
*force* would be bad.
to joe5 earlier todayWhat about "Lift me up" by 5 finger
I understand his point of view, but many outrageous and harmful acts have been
done in the name of "religion". Strict adherence to religious dogma does
not always lead to a just outcome. I suggest that a religion based
moral underpinning is not necessarily an exclusive foundational prerequisite for
a moral life. .
Re Joe5:"What you choose to believe or not believe evidently has very
little in common with reality and there's nothing I can do about that."
My beliefs are very connnected to reality. The LDS church has a greater say in
laws in Utah than any other group. "Your comment completely ignores
the point of my post which is that all of us should be able to advocate for
their point of view in political discourse." If every group should be able
to advocate, why are people upset that the LGBT community is advocating?"Why are you not up in arms about them?" If the jugde ruled church
must perform gay marriages, I would oppose that. "In fact, I would
suggest that organizations that support SSM have had a greater
"indirect" effect on laws that the church has." The LGBT community
doesn't receive the same attention by our government leaders as the church.
"Pretty lame thought processes in my mind."
I am gay. Despite what people think, I also have deep religious beliefs. I
believe strongly that all our lives have great importance and God does not
intend us to all be the same. Often, people end up using their religious beliefs
to harm others! I guess that is why I say that spirituality is not the same as
being religious. A person can be very religious and not have a spiritual bone in
his body. Being gay does not make a person immoral. So, it isn't always
easy to judge what those higher standards should be. People discriminate because
of their so called higher values! I think we always need to evaluate ourselves.
We need to treat each other better and try to lift people up, not judge and tear
Without a belief in God, everything is permissible. Why? Because there is no
ultimate moral standard to judge things by. One set of beliefs is as good as
another one. Mother Teresa is no better or worse than Hitler. Sorry, atheists
and agnostics. But, belief in God does matter and the letter writer made some
Bloodhound, you are telling me that you really would not be able to tell the
difference between Mother Teresa and Hitler if you did not have religion to tell
you? Wow. That is absolutely terribly sad. I don't know where
you get the very flawed idea that without a believe in a god everything is
permissible. Your argument that it is because without a higher moral authority
anything is permissible is. . . well, is just not well thought through, to be
kind. It is a conceit of the religious to believe that they alone
have access to morality, and that without religion morality would not exist. Many beasts show strong elements of morality with never having any
religion. Many beasts take care of their young, some beasts form strong family
units, some practice monogamy, some practice charity, and kindness, and loyalty.
All of this with never having been babtized, or even ever considering it. Many
beasts obviously practice morality. The difference is, humans have
defined it, put a name to it, and some have claimed to know a source for it:
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