Comments about ‘Ask Angela: YSA man wonders if LDS women expect too much’

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Published: Tuesday, Jan. 14 2014 5:00 a.m. MST

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george of the jungle
goshen, UT

Water too pure wont have fish.

EnglishAlan
Rugeley, Staffs

Being a sixty-two year old man, who has been married to the same wife for over 36 years, you may feel I don't qualify to give advice. Being the father of six children though, I have advised them on dating matters.
1000 dates seems a lot. I don't believe I dated more than a dozen girls in my life. Every one of those girls was someone from a group that I already knew. They also knew me. Knowing something about them from the groups that we mixed in, I knew that we had things in common. (I only asked out girls that I found easy to talk to, and who had similar likes and dislikes.) Much of the "sifting" was already therefore done. It seems like this young man carries out the sifting on the first date, and is then surprised that there does not seem to be any compatability. Does he date with the sole purpose of finding a wife? My dates were to enjoy a young lady's company, and have a fun time. I learned from each certain things that I would find attractive in a wife. When I met my wife, she had them all.

  • 7:29 a.m. Jan. 14, 2014
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Susan in VA
Alexandria, VA

Sounds very much like you are as picky as the LDS women you are dating. Have you tried looking for a "real" woman and stop chasing these (so called) princesses?

Fern RL
LAYTON, UT

Well said, Angela. It is usually more helpful to ask the question, "What are my expectations, valid or not?" than to ask "Why are others' expectations so wrong?"

Valid expectations might include:
1. Don't criticize me.
2. Keep helpful comments positive.
3. Be my friend, preferably my best friend.
4. We should have fun times together.
5. We should be able to get to know one another better.
etc.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Both men and women need to walk a fine line - to want/expect high standards from those they date but to also be realistic. To understand that your 22 year old date will not have your father's job or cook like your mom or have the spiritual maturity of either of them.

Don't look for perfect (that is not available). Look for someone you can grow together with. Someone who has the basics (testimony, knows how to work, kind).

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

As the father of a YSA daughter (age 25) who lives in the midwest, the dating scene is sparse. The branch has about 20 active members, growing to 40 in the summer. The pickings are slim.
There is a wedding or two every year.
Having these YSAs in my home I can tell why some of them get no marriage offers. Personality issues are the biggest barrier, followed by appearance. Some are just plain immature.
Some never made the transition from high school to BYU to marriage, which lessens their exposure to potential LDS mates.
I wonder what the mission age change will do?
Most will of these mating issues will eventually resolve themselves as people move around the country and date interesting people.

caf
Bountiful, UT

Right on Angela! I say he would do well to give dating a little break. I am aware of many "princess" mentality women out there but I also know that there are some very "down to Earth" women as well. Many years ago…when I was engaged to my now husband, his friends spent one evening insisting that they would NEVER let the woman they marry stop wearing make-up. I assumed they were giving me a form of advice. Obviously they had no idea that my 'fiancé' had already seen me without make-up because I usually only wear it on Sunday. In fact, cover-up is almost the grossest stuff I have EVER put on my face. What I'm trying to point out is, what are your priorities? Personality or looks?
Perhaps the women this particular man is looking for are exactly what he is getting but he doesn't realize it.

mmom
,

Realistic is good and necessary... but when you see a woman as the princess she is, or could be, and she sees you as the prince you are, or could be, quite possibly you've found the one to marry.

pat1
Taylorsville, UT

Perhaps this young adult would be surprised to learn that many young adult women have the same frustations with young men in the dating scene. They feel that the young men are looking for a woman who is perfect in personality, figure, and beauty, spiritual but fun, positive thinking, educated, but without a single flaw.

pat1
Taylorsville, UT

And the young single adult women would say the same about men their age. They feel a young man wants a beautiful, slim, spiritual, educated, positive-thinking, capable young woman, an LDS version of a trophy wife. Your complaints seem like an excuse to them.

Marriage isn't about what you want but that you are both looking together in the same direction and working hard on the relationship together.

Stop marathon dating and instead date occasionally and spend the rest of your spare time in some sort of service related activity. Volunteer in the community or help out in a family ward. Get to know people by doing something besides entertainment type dating.You could get to know someone for what they really are instead of the superficiality that dating provides. You won't spend your married life in dating mode. Married life is just that--life. It is working, raising children, fixing up your house, fulfilling callings in church in spite of job pressures. Do real things as well as the entertainment things and you might just find a real mate.

KJB1
Eugene, OR

I know suggesting this is sacrilege for an article like this, but has he tried dating women outside of the Church? I've been divorced for a couple of years and while dating again has come with all the usual frustrations, I've found that non-member women tend to be more mature, more open-minded, and have more realistic expectations. It seems like most of the members I know are more interested in reality shows, young adult novels, and gossip than in having an adult conversation.

Denverite
Centennial, CO

As a father of 3 YSA children, dating does seem to be tougher than it was in my day. The culture on that does seem to have changed--and not for the better.

And, if he's in Utah, honestly, he may want to consider moving to a different state. The Church outside Utah (and California) is a lot different, and he may like it better almost anywhere else.

However, both in my day and now, when an LDS man says girls expect too much, he is very often tacitly admitting that one or more of these is true: A) he didn't go on a mission, and girls want a returned missionary, B) his testimony is shaky and/or he doesn't go to church now, C) his current career prospects point toward part-time employment at Wal-Mart, and D) he's spending a lot of time playing video games in the basement.

No LDS girl worth marrying wants to shackle herself with those 4 issues. If he fixes as many of those as he can (assuming he's too old for a mission now), his prospects for marriage will drastically improve--and so will the girls he attracts.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

It's true.

At our last Stake conference, our Stake President's entire talk was toward the many women he had coming in his office all wanting a divorce.

Their common complaints:

His doesn't make enough money,
He is never home,
He doesn't treat me like his future Queen,
He isn't "spiritual" enough,
He isn't living up to his potential,
etc.

He said,
These men were all hard working, Temple Worthy, active, and held Church callings,
BUT
They still were still not meeting these "unreal" expectations.

I see this trend and pattern becoming the norm, rather than the exception...
confirmed by our Stake President.

Slow Cooker
Taylorsville, UT

Angela Trusty's advice is excellent for both men and women. As are many of the comments, good advice and insight. I think we all have in mind our ideal and it evolves as we mature. It may be shaped by parents, friends, and unfortunately fictional characters in books and movies. It helps to look for potential and someone you can be yourself with.

SillyRabbit
Layton, 00

I'll agree with Alan. What is this young man's purpose?

Knowing that you've been out on "over 1000 dates" seems to highlight the idea the young man is convinced that finding a companion and spouse, lover and friend, is solely accomplished through dates.

Settle down, slow down, and stop dating. Start being a friend, because then your self-centeredness will disappear in trying to be helpful and supportive. Simpletons call this the friend-zone. But only dullards don't understand the importance of choosing from the pool of friends that have already shown they love you through their actions, before any amorous intent.

Sure, maybe they don't "look beautiful", but hopefully they've shown that they indeed are.

stanfunky
Salt Lake City, UT

The best thing to do is focus on your own goals and making things better in your life. Not perfect, but better. Ask your friends and family what things they see that might turn off those you are dating. Listen to the answers and don't take offense. Pray about what you have heard and ask which ones to focus on first. Then work on them. And always have a purpose. Nothing turns either gender off faster than someone who is drifting aimlessly. Pick a profession to go to school for, or work in, and chase after it. Grow where you are planted, in your ward, neighborhood, etc. and care about those in your ward, aside from seeking a mate.

EastCoastMemLib
Parkesburg, PA

Say No To BO wrote:

"Some never made the transition from high school to BYU to marriage, which lessens their exposure to potential LDS mates."

I'm closing in on 60 and I never made the transition you speak about, never plan to make it in fact. Despite my immaturity and more than a few insecurities, my spouse of 35 years has decided her life is significantly better with me in it so she keeps me around. The fact I happen to agree with her makes for a (mostly) happy household.

GeoMan
SALEM, OR

1000 dates in 8 years is an average of more than 2 per week! Whoa! Slow down. I think this young man was given advice to "not delay getting married" by a well intentioned mission president or stake president. He probably thinks that dating as much as he can is being true to that charge. It isn't. I'm in the second half of my life now. I didn't get married until I was 30. In hindsight, I wish I had dated a little more. Not because I would have been married sooner or found anyone better. Only because I think I would have enjoyed those years of being single more. Yet, there is no way I wish I had averaged more than 2 dates a week. Doing things with groups of friends, family home evening groups, young adult wards etc. should provide one with plenty of opportunities to get to know others of the opposite gender. Then based on what one learns in those settings, one can ask someone out on an official "date." The 2 or 3 dates a week should happen when these less frequent dates leads one to believe that there exists the basis for a deeper relationship.

USAlover
Salt Lake City, UT

Sorry dude but I don't buy it. It's tough to comment too much because we really don't know you but chances are you don't want to commit or the ladies are tired of the video games and goal-less career decisions. As a father of two daughters, the de-masculization of America has hit a new low, in my opinion. More than ever, guys are scared to commit to women and they are increasingly ambitionless and dull, expecting their wives to join the workforce and to be 50% partners in career money and raise good, happy children. Heck, just the idea of calling a girl and asking her on a date and paying for it sends half of these young men into panic attacks.

ulvegaard
Medical Lake, Washington

Following my mission, it too me close to 20 years to find the person I had been looking for. I only dated members; ones I thought had good qualities. True, not everyone is a good match for everyone, but I encountered many that I think this young man is referring to: Young ladies who were waiting for Brad Pit to join the church. I was told by most of these that they admired my spirituality, my good work ethic, my gentelness, kindness, righteous endeavors -- but that is not what they were looking for. ????

As I look back I am so grateful that I kept looking. For me, I eventually started looking on some LDS dating sites and came upon a young lady who had the same goals and aspirations that I did. We have been married now for ten years and have five children. It hasn't been clear sailing, but its been a great ride and we've survived everything together!

If a sweet young things turns you down -- you very well should be grateful that you, as my father would say, dodged another bullet.

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