Unfortunately the true church can't be quite so easily identified using
purely "logic". If so, there'd be no anti-Mormons. For example, for
centuries the answer to the question "what happens to those who die without
being baptized?" was "they are condemned to Hell and cannot be
redeemed." This remains the answer from most of Christianity, which is why
so many people reject it.I've seen other churches mimic the the
true church's appearance so closely that a casual investigator could easily
be deceived. The completely unbiblical doctrine of the "Priesthood of All
Believers" allows many churches to claim authority, but only practice
priestcrafts. Likewise "tradition" and "culture" have caused
many false doctrines not taught by Christ to become Christian orthodoxy.
Unsurprisingly, these churches deny modern revelation, the only means by which
to expose their frauds.Without studying the Book of Mormon or the
words of modern prophets, one cannot recognize the Church for what it is. Its
structure and organization alone are not enough. Satan could create a church
following the exact same pattern and deceive many with it, but those who took
the time to study it closely could not be fooled.
@the truth, you seem to skip verse 11 in Exodus 33: And the Lord spake unto
Moses face to face...… he (Moses)endured, as seeing him who is
invisible (Heb 11:27). Always use the *N.T. to interpret the O.T.*1Timothy 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light,
whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. AmenJ S, Lectures on Faith, Q. What is the Father? A. He is a personage of
glory and of power. (5:2.). What is the son? First, he is a personage of
tabernacle.RE; the truth shall make you free(John 8:32), It was a
maxim of the Jews, "That no man was free, but he who exercised himself in
the meditation of the law." No man is truly free, but he in
whose heart the power of sin is destroyed, and who has received the Spirit of
adoption, through which he cries, Abba! Father! Romans 8:15. The bondage of sin
is the most grievous bondage; and freedom from its guilt and influence is the
It really all goes back to the First Vision. If it really happened, then what
is being said by Joseph Smith is what he was told by God. If it didn't
happen, how did we get the Book of Mormon from a 14-year old boy who was almost
illiterate? Why don't other churches match "the blueprint" of
Christ's Church?Maybe you should ask God for yourself and not
just accept all the spin of decades of apostasy.
@sharronaIf god is only spirit then God is not God because man van
things physically that he can't.Therefore man, according your
view, is superior in some ways to God.That defies logic and
reason.Joseph Smith revealed: D&C 93:33: Man is spirit.Man is Spirit. God is Spirit.Hmmm...33 For man
is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably
connected, receive a fulness of joy;God is indeed physical as well.
His full glory requires it.By the way, you seem to skip verse 11 in
Exodus 33: And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto
his friend. Moses 1:11 gives more clarification to verse 33:20.
Isn't it a wonderful thing that God reveals an teaches through living
prophets today rather than relying on imperfect man to pass down his word and
teachings in fullness and correctness through the centuries and ages.Also Mormon doctrine teaches that the spirit is composed of fine matter. So
seeing with spiritual eyes is also a physical thing.
Not only did Elder Callister masterfully connect the dots, he created them as
sharrona,"No man hath seen God at any time."______________________________No atheist will ever quarrel with
that. Belief begins with the human subject. What could be more self-evident than
RE: thebigsamoan...Jesus standing on the right hand of God the Father. It's
what Joseph Smith saw when both the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him. The term, right hand of God is an anthropomorphism. The attribution of
human characteristics to non-human beings or things. We know God is Spirit,
John 4:24, who is everywhere, Ps. 139:7-10, Eph. 1:23, Jer. 23:24. So thus it is
impossible for God to have a right hand! The use of this anthropomorphism occurs
60 times in Scripture. There are 39 references in the O. T. and 21
in the N. T. The primary thought behind these passages is it is a "Hebrew
Idiom." That being a figure of speech much like, "he's my right
hand man." In the Hebrew this idiom denotes power and strength.RE; the truth, For no one can see me and live. (Ex 33: 18-20)… The LORD
often appeared, but not in His full shekinah glory. Gen. 17:1. “(1 John 4:1).. test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for
many false prophets have gone out into the world…..verse 12 No man hath
seen God at any time..
Profound and Insightful. I can't wait to watch the whole talk!
"....this is the only church that has all the truth that has been revealed
thus far in this dispensation — the only church that has the ordinances
necessary for exaltation, and the only church that has the priesthood of God to
perform those ordinances with divine validity."______________________________That doesn’t bode well for the
whole of institutional Christianity, does it? Mormons who hold that archaic view
will find it to little avail when non-Mormons concede Mormon legitimacy as a
valid religion. As long as the LDS Church stakes its claims to nothing short of
Christian primacy, I see little progress being made in inter-faith efforts and
popular culture will continue to treat Mormonism like a joke.
@Sharona,Jesus Christ was considered a leader of a cult, who
established His church on the foundation of apostles and prophets with He
himself as the chief cornerstone. The church he set up was His church, the one
and only true church with power and authority to perform ordinances of salvation
to all of Heavenly Father's children, eg, baptism, eternal marriage,
sealing of families, etc, etc. And btw, we Mormons don't believe in a
different Jesus no matter how much you try to ridicule us about that. Jesus was
mortal, who became immortal after his resurrection when he won the victory over
the grave. He went up into heaven with that same immortal and exalted body that
Thomas doubted until he felt the wounds and saw with his own eyes. He now sits
on the right hand of the Father. It's the scene that Stephen saw when the
heavens opened up to him when he was being stoned to death...Jesus standing on
the right hand of God the Father. It's what Joseph Smith saw when both the
Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him. You chose not to believe, yet
it's all true.
Sharrona? Was Jesus not a man? Is He not a resurrected Son of man and Son of
God? Is he not God and man? I'm not debating you. I was just wondering
about the different Jesus statement you made. I thought He was born of man or a
human (Mary) and He is the Son of God. But by your definition, you can call
many religions a cult. You seem to get on these Des News posts with a huge chip
on your shoulder about the LDS faith. Sorry if any one of us offended you so
you have to go on these "witch hunts". Anyone can prove or disprove a
religion - or even God, Himself. Perhaps that's where faith comes in. We
have just as much faith in our religion as you have in yours. No matter what
you say, you only come across as trying to correct us. Please don't do
that because we have faith that our Church is true. Nothing you will ever say
will change that.
@sharronaAnyone can up with their own list of signs and an
interpretations to fit whatever view they want to believe.That
doesn't make it so.People are prone to do that and worse.Which is why God must still speak his prophets today, a for modern
revelation and for corroborating (second witness) scripture. Would
God, in his infinite wisdom, leave it up to imperfect and fallible and sinful
and wicked people to preserve his word accurately through the ages?
For any who have questions about this talk, just watch the whole thing. This
article doesn't do it justice at all. Go to lds.org and watch the
devotional with Elder Callister. Just listen to him speak.
FT1/SS Most recently I had Jehovah Witness Missionaries. Good,Signs
of Theological cults: 1.The only true church. 2. Ostracize and add to scripture
and Their own translation (NWT) 3. Deify man: Man can become God. 4. Humanize
God,*Deny God is one eternally. 6. Minimize sin, Instead of man’s very
nature. 7. A different Jesus (exalted man) 8. Different spirit (familiar).*Jesus is (Jehovah/YHWH) i.e.. “ we look forward with hope to
that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
will be revealed. (Titus 2:13 NLT). The key to understanding this
passage speaks of one person and not two, is in understanding Greek articles.*….the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we
ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.(1 John 3:16 KJV) God on the cross.
I would have enjoyed being there for the actual talk, but so I am grateful for
the ability to view, read or in some other way, glean from such messages.
I can neither agree nor disagree with Elder Callister, I don't know all of
his meaning in this talk. However, I think that sometimes scripture about
temples is mistaken for scripture about the Church. I agree that the Church is a
shelter designed by God for His Children, but I think of it as a pavilion rather
than a keep. The rain and snow are kept off, the wind is broken but fresh
breezes pass through. There is no particular point of entry, no doors must be
pushed open, none will ever slam shut. The interior of the Pavilion of the Lord
is vast, able to allow many people to engage in many activities, the most
desirable of which will draw attention rather than demand it. The rules of the
Pavilion are also simple: the Eleven Commandments. Beneath this vast Pavilion
men and women may build homes and the Lord will establish his temples.
I think this could be my favorite CES Devotional. Elder Callister did an
outstanding job connecting the dots between the Lord's church during his
time, and his apostles with the lord's LDS church in the last dispensation.
It's something I like to do with those who belong to other churches. Most
recently I had Jehovah Witness Missionaries, and a Creationist back down when
they did'nt have answers on the subject of discussion. This is a talk
I'll watch again on the Mormon Channel when it's ready for viewing,
and take a few notes.