An amazingly well done article. Many should take this to heart.
Religion is often fair game in humor. I don't mind some of that. It is
the juvenile and crass classification of religionists as stupid, foolish,
secretly evil/hypocritical, etc. that make my head spin.Currently
the LDS appear to be fair game. Hopefully that will pass. I am not sure if our
"live and let live" philosophy helps that but I do believe it is right
(at least for now).More militant groups such as B'nai
B'rith that actively fight against stereotyping are an effective model but
their strong stance is more understandable given the recent history of the
Jewish people.Whenever humor of a people is used, care should be
taken not to denigrate.
The church has, and always will be attacked. Todays LDS church is attacked just
like the Savior during his time on earth, and the apostles after him. It's
when the world accepts us, is when I'll worry.
The fundamental and very real difference between poking fun (even to the point
of ridicule) at someone because of their race and someone’s religious
beliefs aside (Shylock was not mocked for reading the Torah); I agree with the
2nd to last paragraph – consider it a form of flattery (in the ironic
comedic sense) and laugh it off in the spirit for which Mormon’s are known
for.As Yoda said, “anger, fear, aggressive… to the dark
side (the Muslim approach) they lead.” Not sure he mentioned Muslims but
if were living in our time & galaxy he doubtless would have in this context.
Can you imagine a Broadway play laughing about the Quran?
LDS have a "live and let live" philosophy?
RE: Latter-day Saints Who Say, "We Never Criticize Christian Churches.…all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those
professors were all corrupt…JS History 1:19."When the light came
to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in
darkness" Journal of Discourses 5:73)."The Christian world,
so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God"
(Journal of Discourses 8:171).We talk about Christianity, but it is
a perfect pack of nonsense ...the devil could not invent a better engine to
spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century" (Journal of
Discourses 6:167)."What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as
ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast." (Journal of Discourses
6:25). "What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing
...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest of fools;
they know neither God nor the things of God" (Journal of Discourses 13:225).
Sharrona,Two points:First, wouldn't most born again
Christians make similar statements reference Mormons being ignorant of the
nature of God or salvation? I have read such statements.Second,
such statements (no matter by whom nor to whom they are directed) are not
comedic mockery (which was the point of the article).
The LDS Church is fair game to be mocked for a few reasons...1. All
religions, especially Christian religions are fair game to be mocked it seems by
so-called entertainers from The Simpsons, to Bill Maher, Comedy Central, et
al2. Since Mitt Romney was on the national scene twice over the past
decade and greater visibility has been given to the LDS Church because of his
presidential campaigns, the LDS Church will be subjected to both positive and
negative attention.3. Since the LDS Church claims - perhaps more
strongly than any other church - to be the one and only true church of God, it
will therefore be subjected to greater scrutiny than say the Baptists,
Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.4. Since the LDS Church has some very
clear contradictions in its history as has been confirmed by the LDS Church
itself through its series of essays on Polygamy, Priesthood being withheld from
Blacks, etc, it has become an even easier target for mocking and ridicule.I'm not saying anyone should mock the LDS church nor any religion
that generally is a force for good. But, when you are in the limelight and seek
it, mocking is almost to be expected.
Your too tight...where is your light mindedness....a little fun is ok.
The Scientist said: "LDS have a "live and let live"
philosophy?"Yes, you have often mentioned your active LDS wife
on these comment boards and her position to live and let live.I have
used her example in my own life. You may thank her for me.
Regarding the comments above there is some inconsistency.1) Mocking
Christianity vs Mormons are two different things (religion vs people)2) Mocking of religions is not equal. You can mock Christianity and Mormonism
but not Islam3) Race and religion are not the same. Being racist is
uncool. Mocking religion is OK. One is born into a race without choice.
Religion is a choice.4) I enjoy Polack jokes and Mormon jokes cause
I am a Mormon Polack. Hey! New campaign.
sharronalayton, UTStatements and opinions made ex cathedra are not
doctrinal. Ridiculing and religious contending are vastly different.
Any PR is good PR. Have watched it happen many, many times. While living 30
years in the south at least monthly someone would come ask me something about
the LDS Church because of something in a film, sunday school class or
presentation unfavorable to Mormons. I just answered their question, gave the
rest of the story etc. the best I could and thanked them for caring enough to
ask and get a view from my side. It will all work out.
I have to wonder if this is the only episode of the simpsons this author ever
watched. The simpsons are equal opportunity offenders. The often poke fun at the
Jewish community and just about every group people divide themselves into or get
stereotyped into into in our society.
Sharrona - You may want to clarify that the Journal of Discourses is not and
never has been canonized as doctrine. In any case, as long as even
one person chooses to follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness, the
Church and its teachings will be mocked at every hand.
RE: Owl,Statements and opinions made ex cathedra are not doctrinal. What
about?(1 Nephi 14:10).. there are save two churches only; the one is the
church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore,
whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great
church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the
earth" 8;58RE: Twin Lights, Do you agree? (D.H.C. v 6. P
408,409) “I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man
that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam.
A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor
Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers
of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me
Two things: First, I saw another Simpson dig at Mormons on a very recent episode
where Rev. Lovejoy needs to find a way to revive his uninterested flock, but
doesn't have the "Mormon budget" to do so. It seems more of a
compliment that the Church has vast financial means due to the faithful tithes
give to the Lord for the work to go forth. In grade school and even
well into my adult life have I personally been insulted because of my faith,
many times by close acqaintences and even close friends. For me, it's
difficult to turn the other cheek and rise above hurtful jokes and comments
because my faith is sacred to me. Even if someone doesn't share my beliefs,
I would expect the decency of an agree-to-disagree, or even a live and let live
attitude. Even when I was inactive for 10 years, wasting time in "riotous
living", I often found myself defending Mormons and the gospel because in my
heart, it was still a living thing. I hope that I can one day overcome the
weakness of anger at misinformed opinions.
The Simpsons and South Park (which also has an episode about Mormons) ridicule
and make fun of nearly every ideology, including the "cults" of Facebook
and consumerism. There are a good number of people who think that many Mormon
beliefs are ridiculous, even delusional. Add this to the fact that many people
argue that the techniques the Church uses to recruit and retain, as well as
illicit compliance and obedience, to some extent resemble cult practices. None
of that makes it "right" to ridicule Mormons, but it may help others
understand why it happens. Some people, of course, put others down to feed their
already inflated sense of superiority, so there is always that.
@ spring street,I am aware that the Simpsons is an equal opportunity
show for ridicule. But the point of the article is that when the jokes and
ridicule are aimed at most other entities, their is some sort of public out cry.
Some offenses even bring about charges based on the hate crime laws in this
country. If a gay young man is teased and insulted, if a complaint is made
there is law enforcement involvement. If a young Mormon boy is ridiculed, it is
more likely that others will join in on the fun.I realize it may be
a comparison of apples to oranges, but again, as I see it, the article was
pointing out for much of society, degrading LDS beliefs and members is fair
game, poking fun and most other members of society is borderline criminal.
I never mock Mormons or their religion.I only mock that which is
silly and deserving of being mocked.Because there is plenty of that
in Mormonism and Mormondom, sometimes they get mocked.Eliminate the
silly and mock-worthy from Mormonism and Mormondom, and the mocking will drop
Mayfair,My wife is hardly a typical Mormon - thank goodness!If Mormons were overall like my wife, I would have joined the Mormon
Church three decades ago.Alas, she is the rare one-in-15-million
People tend to be down on what they are not up on. I expect there never will be
a time when all ALL people will be "up" on The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints to qualify them to be critics or boosters.
While I understand the author's frustration at what seems like a
double-standard, his analogy of Mormons and Jews in terms of being mocked
isn't accurate.Mormons, Christian fundamentalists and Muslims
too, are mocked by some media for their *religious* beliefs. If Jews were
mocked, it would be "racial." Jews have widely-varying beliefs and
disbeliefs about their religion. Indeed, more than a few Jews don't
believe in God at all.Yet they're all considered Jews, by their
fellow Jews and by the world around them.If a Mormon renounced his
religion's beliefs, he'd no longer be considered a Mormon. Same for
fundamentalist Christians and Muslims.Having said that, I'd
like to add that I have the deepest admiration for the Mormon Church in the way
it handled that Broadway show. I can't think of another solidly dogmatic
religion which would be so even-tempered about something that mocks so much of
their values and what they hold sacred. I understand the Church even put an ad
in the show's program: "You saw the show, now read the book."Would that we were all like that.
Might I suggest it will get worse. As the second coming approaches,
persecutions will arise and worsen. That's just my understanding. Things
are happening fast, with signs of the times popping up around us. The Lord will
prevail. The war has been won. We just have to prove what side WE are on. The leaders of the church seem to me to be always taking the considered,
measured approach to issues of the day. And even with that, they get
criticized. But that has been the lot of leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-Day-Saints since it's beginning. Though the church
does not seek controversy, it will stand out more and more as it finds itself
becoming one of last groups to hold to the standards of Jesus Christ. Many
groups and individuals cave under the political correctness of today.
Freedom of speech.
Baloney. I listen to a fair amount of television and movies and I hear faiths
of all kinds being slammed all the time from Evangelical Christianity to Wicca
to Judaism to Islam to Atheism! It`s one of the things I love about our country
and freedoms. We are safe to criticize whoever we wish without being afraid of
retaliation. I wouldn`t want it any other way.
It's always fun to laugh at Nacho but maybe not so much at ourselves? The
Lord himself called his Church as being fillled with the weak and simple. We
should probably not take ourselves too seriously and remember the 2nd principle
of the Gospel.
Why is it OK to mock Mormons?Hmmmmmmmmm ....Because we
are often not politically correct?Because earnest young people in
suits and white shirts or knee-length skirts with tops that cover their
shoulders are so out-of-place among youth in general?Because we
"can't" smoke or do snuff, get drunk or stoned, drink espresso or
frappuccinos, go home with the attractive stranger of our choice from the bar,
or hang out in casinos dropping dollar after dollar down the drain, we never
have any fun?Because we believe God still speaks to us, wants to
speak to us, and loves us enough to speak to us just as He did to people
thousands of years ago?Because we actually look forward to being
with our families for eternity?Because we don't throw tanrrums,
riot, assassinate, or burn things down someone offends us?Because we
are just so completely... well... mockable?The list could go on and
on and on.
I can think of several reasons why Mormons tend to get "mocked" more
than others.1. The colorful history of the Church.2. Mormonism is
just as much a culture as it is a religion.3. Proselytizing - when you
put yourself out there in the open like, you are bound to take shots.4.
Mormons tend to seem a bit more gleeful (maybe just perception) which will
always draw in cynicism. I could go on but I think I made my point.
Sharrona,The statement is factual. You may not like the way he says
it, but it is accurate.Did Paul boast?A Scientist,So you only mock what you determine deserves to be mocked?
What, not one mention of Archie Bunker? He used to give a bigoted opinion about
everyone and everything. His comments about "the Mormons" were tame and
hardly anything compared with others he lambasted.Face it, Hollywood
script writers love to poke fun at the Mormons and it seems to be well received
by the public. I'm not sure why except maybe it has a bit to do with
others feeling insecure around those who strive to do what they should and shun
the world's vices, like smoking, drinking, gambling, womanizing, etc.There are those who think they know better than anyone else what the
doctrines or practices of the Church should be and if they are not aligned, the
Church is just plain wrong (or silly). When exactly were they ordained the
President? Missionaries wearing white shirts are an easy target...but they
wouldn't dare make fun of some non-member's tattoos, multiple earrings
or weird hair. Other examples are home teaching, singles wards, church
athletics, etc. The Church building a new building has critics that say the
money should be used to help feed the poor. They tolerate some
things, mock others.
Scientist,"I never mock Mormons or their religion. I only mock
that which is silly and deserving of being mocked. Because there is plenty of
that in Mormonism and Mormondom....."I don't follow this
logic. And, how can you know she is one in 15 million? Have you met
all 14,999,999 of us? You pass very harsh judgements on strangers you have never
had dealings with because of the actions of some. You respect the promises you
wife has made, but demand the rest of us expose ours.
How about not making it so easy then possibly the jokes will cease!
@HereVery well said.
"Two Mormons walk into a bar"...Just kidding. Just kidding.
I think we all know whats going on here. Its OK in America to attack the
character of those who don't agree with you politically. Its hardly new or
a one-sided affair. One day perhaps, America will get tired of it and then both
MSNBC and Fox News will be in big trouble.
Catholics get skewered for the priest scandal all the time. Jewish people get
ridiculed for being cheap. I take it as a sign that we've made it as a
major religion when people make fun of us. It happens.
Its never okay to mock anyone for any reason. To to so would be a violation of
the golden rule.Thats not to say all religion are deserving of
respect. Snake handler religions, religions that forbid people from seeing
doctors, especially children who need life saving care, religions that force
women to wear head coverings, that circumcise infants, that make people feel
guilty for things that are not wrong such as birth control all come to mind
When a religion says, "We're the only 100% true church on the
earth" and implies that you don't reach the highest level of heaven
without going through them first (and yes, that's what you believe,
don't deny it)--then you open yourself up to mocking, it's pretty
simple. It's like saying at a party that you're the smartest one in
the room and happen to know everything--you think folks are going to find any
sympathy for someone like that? The LDS Church and this paper like to drive up
the "pity" quotient for Mormons, but you guys bring it on all by
Here wrote:"Might I suggest it will get worse. As the second
coming approaches, persecutions will arise and worsen."Yes, if
you continue to push the doctrine of a "second coming", then you will
definitely bring upon yourselves more mockery. We have had 2,000 years of such
nonsense, and anyone who takes that seriously deserves to be mocked.
Today, the secular media is hostile to all forms of religious belief. As a
group, Christians are disparaged as Bible-thumping, anti-scientific, intolerant
dunces. It's not just Mormons who get mocked, but people of faith
generally.Sadly, it's human nature to deride things that seem
peculiar. The more distinctive your beliefs or practices, the more likely you
are to be ridiculed--and the Mormon faith is, by any reckoning, distinctive. An
added challenge is that many LDS church members are geographically isolated
within the "Mormon Corridor." Few Americans have an LDS friend, and the
high degree of social cohesion among LDS congregants further reinforces a
perception of "separateness."Luckily, we live in a country
where those with distinctive beliefs are mocked rather than persecuted. If we
are truly grateful for this blessing, we'll take the energy we'd
otherwise expend in parrying puerile gibes, and use it to support those around
the world who face genuine danger in living out their religious convictions.
My favorite LDS joke came from the same people who made the Broadway musical.
It was a South Park episode and all the people who were dead were confused why
they were with Satan and asked a simple question, which church was the correct
one. Satan pauses dramatically and replies, "That would be the
MOOORRMONS!!!" I think we as members of the Church are very
tolerant of the mainstream jokes and characterizations because they often serve
a purpose connected to Missionary work. However there are some attacks that go
too far. Fortunately those attacks never gain traction and are quickly forgotten
unless you were the one who had the TV or radio on.What does bother
me is how often this newspaper allows attacks against BYU's sport teams and
players on their message boards.
@ulvegaardThe Simpsons engage in pocking fun at different groups in
every episode and I do not remember the last time there was any public outcry
following the redicule of any of these groups. As for. You example not related
to the Simpsons the same law that applies to the gay men applies to LDS people
as well, I seem to remember a rather recent incident in Texas involving some LDS
youth and their being an investigation into their being bullied, so again show
me how you are being singled our.
@sharrona, Ministers of different religious denominations often gave talks and
sermons in Nauvoo during Joseph Smith's time. During the mid-19th Century,
Brigham Young helped Catholic pioneers in Utah get land to build a church on,
and the local Mormon choir sang at their services. LDS humanitarian efforts,
for decades, have been conducted in cooperation with Catholic Relief services,
and Islamic Relief Worldwide. LDS relief efforts in Indonesia, after the
tsunami some years ago, included providing hundreds of copies of the Quran to
local Muslim townspeople. These are just a few examples out of many that come to
mind.I personally have been involved for decades in local efforts of
inter-religious understanding, involving local Baha'i communities and
others, and have set this example for my family.@A Scientist:
"Live and let live," Have you asked the LGBT community and their
"politically correct" friends if they are willing to practice that same
principle in regard to the Boy Scouts, Chick Fil-A - or, for that matter, unborn
When Shakespeare wrote "The Merchant of Venice," the Jews had been
banished from England for about 300 years. Those who remained would not have
been in a position to complain about Shylock. "Othello," as a Moor
(black man from northern Africa) was also a stereotypical character with his
physical prowess and his temperamental weakness. There weren't a lot of
Moors hanging around England in Shakespeare's time to protest the
characterization. Maybe deriders think no one's listening who'd be
offended. Ask any LDS Democrat how it felt to sit in, for example, Relief
Society, during the last election, and hear some of the comments that were made.
I attended a missionary open house and heard a conversation that totally
marginalized me, and these were supposed to be my people! The solution to
Mormon-bashing is to live your LDS principles and "open your mouth" and
let folks know you're LDS before they "open mouth, insert foot."
Otherwise, relax. I love that the Church puts ads in "The Book of Mormon
Musical" programs, saying the book is always better!
If billions of people on the outside of our tiny world of Mormonism think of the
org as shrouded in mystery and somewhat culty and think doctrines like polygamy,
tea being a health risk, and becoming gods are extremely odd and that tens of
thousands of high school graduates in suits going door to door on bicycles
because for the most part they made the decision to do it when they were
prepubescent is really peculiar then...who cares? We're really not supposed
to care. We aren't LDS because we thought it would mean we'd suddenly
be entitled to be free from all ridicule, right? We're all basically
wearing signs on our chests that say we think all these things makes perfect
sense so...toughen up kids.
Perhaps you have missed reading or hearing about the mocking, hating, disgusting
treatment and comments President Obama, The President of the United States
receives everyday? Not much respect for anyone out there these days, is
A comment here has said beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day-Saints appear delusional to those not of our faith. As though this
is justification for being mocked. I'm not speaking directly to the
commenter, but in general, people could easily think that the prophets of the
Old Testament were delusional. They were not, and IMHO, neither is the LDS
Church and it's prophet.Abraham was not delusional when he
nearly sacrificed his son. Noah was not delusional when he built an ark in
sunny days. Isaiah was not delusional when he prophesied to future generations
and of the coming of the Messiah. Moses was not delusional when he knew it was
his mission to deliver the Jews from Egypt, and backed it up by parting the Red
Sea. Labeling religion as delusional is an old tactic used to try to discredit
revelation, faith, and obedience. Just a thought.
Others have said it before, but the main reason Mormons get made fun of is the
same reason why milk-toast little boys get picked on by bullies as kids: they
don't fight back. Parker and Stone and all their philosophical buddies on
the left continually congratulate themselves for being "edgy" and
"daring." Well, if they really want to be "daring," let them do
an obscene Broadway musical about all the seemingly absurd aspects of Islam and
the Koran. Of course, they don't because they're just like most
bullies--wussies deep down.
@ Origami"There are a good number of people who think that many
Mormon beliefs are ridiculous, even delusional.".. and there are
also many more who see the LDS Church as strong for supporting families, service
orientated for donating time, financially generous for paying fast offerings to
the poor and needy. So what's your point?
scientistyou don't join the church because of it's people, you
join because you believe it is true. it appears you haven't found that to
be the case. i'm sure all of the members of your religion (if you have
one) are perfect . good luck in living around people you seem to have such
anomosity towards. life is too short for me to live that way.
I've seen every religion mocked at this point in my life.Let's see. Heaven Help Us (Andrew McCarthy, Donald Sutherland) mocks the
Catholic Church. One among many. I don't think there is a church mocked
more than the Catholic Church by Hollywood. Steve Martin pretty
much mocked evangelicals in Leap of Faith.I don't think
Footloose made evangelicals look good.South Park has mocked about
everything (Muslims, Mormons, Catholics, Hollywood, Scientologists, PETA,
atheists, satanists, evangelicals, etc.)James Bond movie Diamonds
are Forever mocked Santeria.Indiana Jones mocked some sort of
religion...Saturday's Voyeur are Mormons sort of mocking
Mormons...The movie Airplane mocked several religions including
Buddhists, Jews for Jesus, Jews in general, Jehovah Witnesses...Bottom line, what religion or even non-religion hasn't been mocked by
Come on. Every religion that has survived since the beginning of time has done
so because persecution is good for religions. If Joseph Smith hadn't gotten
killed, there wouldn't be any LDS today. If Jesus hadn't gotten
killed, there wouldn't be any Christianity.
I see no more relief for the Catholics than the Mormons. Sister Act is also on
Broadway. (Ironically, the film version was played by an actress that admits she
hates all people that don't subscribe to her views on same-sex marriage
including the Catholics.)I was appalled by a Halloween store in Salt
Lake City that had a religious section with costumes for drunk priest and
pregnant nun. When I complained, they refused to remove the costumes since the
manager had pre-purchased the merchandise, but they did move them to a low shelf
in the back of the store. One can tell when a joke is in fun and in
hate. Face it, there are loud people that hate what the Catholics and Mormons
are fighting to defend.
I've been teased about being a Mormon. It's no big deal. I'd
rather everyone was fair game, then we'd get to know what everyone really
@Red Corvette - What, do you have an inferiority complex or something? There may
be a few LDS who act holier than thou, but I would say on the whole that is not
at all the case. Trying to improve oneself, serving others, seeking to be more
like Christ -- what on earth can be wrong with that?
spring street posted: I seem to remember a rather recent incident in Texas
involving some LDS youth and their being an investigation into their being
bullied, so again show me how you are being singled our.===========It's my understanding that the LDS church was recently (4 Aug 2013
Deseret News) added to the list of hate crime stats. Now that's there
something to keep track of, perhaps some are making the point.
@Uncle Rico".. and there are also many more who see the LDS Church as
strong for supporting families, service orientated for donating time,
financially generous for paying fast offerings to the poor and needy. So
what's your point?"The point is that despite our good
qualities there are vast populations of people who do much good without all the
quirky and peculiar ideological and historical foundations. Mormons may often be
regarded as good, hard working people of integrity, but most people still think
we're weird in addition to all that. We're always going to be weird
and weird people are the butts of jokes regardless of how much good they do in
the world. Aint no way around it and I'm pretty sure we've been asked
to embrace it.
Oh look at yourself bicker over and over. Tis the very Last Days.
One of the reasons Mormonism get's "mocked" is simple, it's so
easy to do. When a myriad of members act and respond so differently to the same
issues, doctrines and guidelines how can it possibly be taken seriously.
They dish it out at the same rate.The reason the Broadway play was funny
is because of the oddities of mormonism. There are embarrassing statements.
The article is interesting but not exactly factual... Catholics have been the
butt of all kinds of theatrical productions, even here in SLC. Nuns are great
fodder for ridicule. Any number of movies and all kinds of TV shows poke fun at
Jewish stereotypes. I do agree with Bennet, though, that it means that the LDS
church has arrived in a certain way. And, taking it in stride is the best
approach -- LDS members know what is true regarding faith and what is not, as do
Jews and Catholics. Finally, the Broadway musical to which Bennet alludes -- the
Book of Mormon -- was awesome. I saw it with three "Utah Mormons" (we
are all LDS) and aside from the over-the-top language, and a couple small
dramaturge errors, I think it made us look like an interesting, faithful people!
In fact, the woman sitting next to me, at intermission, told me she was jewish
and asked a dozen questions regarding doctrine and listened carefully as I
explained. This, to me, is how the church goes truly global.
I am amazed at how thin skinned and isolated some people really are. This piece
is interesting in that it does finally point out that we have reached the stage
where we and all the other religions - yes even Islam - have fun made of them.
Good grief, am I the only one who as a kid saw "the Life of Brian" or
"Monty Python and the Holy Grail". If anyone really
believes we as a faith are being picked upon, or that other faiths aren't
having the same treatment, your living in a bubble. I found it odd at the time
when the movie Singles Ward came out how his girl friend was offended that the
lead as a comedian made jokes about Mormons. If we can' laugh at our own
oddities - and we are odd - ok "peculiar" - then we really need an
attitude checkWe are funny - nothing wrong with it.
Mocking is a form of bullying. How can schools or employers ever address this
problem while some adults, such as those on these message boards, openly and
continually proclaim that the LDS Church, or any church for that matter,
Northern Lights.... what is the difference between "mocking" and
"making fun of" or even "Joking about". Can we not have a
sense of humor about our selves? I mean, come on. Jello Salad is funny.
Church potatoes is funny. Deacon Dancing.... is hilarious. J Golden Kimble...
hilarious. The BYU dating scene.... odd and very funny. So what
is funny worthy.... and what is off limits? I mean we have elders in our
ward... one is 80 pounds max, the other a "solid" guy. Seeing them
ride their bikes down the road.... funny.
Thank you for your column. I agree with you totally. I'm just sorry you
had to watch an episode of the Simpsons to get your inspiration for this column.
BlueDevilWhat you are describing is poking a little fun among
friends or associates. That is probably ok if done in the right spirit. I
think much of what you describe can be amusing.What occurs more
often than not in today's media, as you can even see with some of the
comments above, is mocking as defined in the dictionary: mock (v) to attack or
treat with ridicule, contempt, or derision. Some go far as to say this is
deserved. I still believe that this type of mockery is a form of bullying. Interestingly, many school bullies argue that they were only teasing
their "victims." Where do you think they get that idea from?
@ The Scientist"LDS have a "live and let live"
philosophy?"Wrong. If that were true there wouldn't be
such a fuss about Amendment 3
I think Northern Lights says it well.Every religion, racial
minority, or ethnic group I am familiar with goes along with and even generates
some good natured ribbing about their eccentricities (and we all have them).And there are movies and other media that do the same. The kidding is
there but there is also respect and love (think Sister Act).That is
not what this is talking about. This is about mocking. About pointing your
finger at a particular group and essentially calling them stupid.We
should not be subjected to it. Nobody should. And I hope and pray we will
follow our prophets' lead and never mock others.
RE: Semi-Strong “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I
said, Ye are gods?”Jesus the Christ, James Talmage—explained
that Jesus was referring to divinely appointed human judges in John 10:34:
Divinely Appointed Judges Called ‘gods.’ In Psalm 82:6, judges
invested by divine appointment are called ‘gods.’ To this the Savior
referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon’s Porch. Judges so authorized
officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exaltedtitle
‘gods.’”(Jesus the Christ, 501). Not even Mormon males believe
their God right now.Twin lights, Did Paul boast? vWhen Paul came to
know Jesus Christ, he realized that he had nothing to brag about. All his
religious accomplishments were a load of rubbish (Philippians 3:8). .
"May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ"
Sharrona,"I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise,
yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. That which I speak,
I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of
boasting. Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also."So was he boasting. Yup - to make a point. All things in context.Glad you like Talmage. You should read the footnote for yourself vs.
relying on MRM. In fact, please read the whole book (it was one of the first I
read when investigating the church). He is simply noting the foolishness of
accusing Christ of blasphemy when the scriptures (OT) referred to judges by that
title. He is not negating what Christ is telling us.
The answer why it is OK to mock Mormons is simple. A lot of people who profess
to value cultural diversity are doing it in a knee-jerk way. They are doing it
without thinking. So they eat Mexican food at a cultural day and they are proud
that they are open-minded. But as soon as something comes up to them that
requires thinking like someone mocking Mormons, they don't recognize they
are operating off of stereotypes so all of a sudden their stereotypes fall on
the floor and everyone sees, except for them.
Semi-Strong,it was one of the first I read when investigating the church). He is
simply noting the foolishness of accusing Christ of blasphemy when the
scriptures (OT) referred to judges by that title. He is not negating what Christ
is telling us. Wrong,Jesus could not be hinting that men could
become a god like himself since that would be in contradiction of scripture ,and
the Lord himself said the “the scripture cannot be broken “(John
10:35)Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD(YHWH), and my servant whom
I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:
before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I,
am the LORD(YHWH); and beside me there is no savior. (Is 43:10-11)I’ve read Jesus the Christ many times but I prefer the Bible, .. test
the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone
out into the world…..verse 12 No man hath seen God at any time.. “(1
I think it was Oscar Wilde who said, ""There is only one thing in life
worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."Just spell our name right.
Man Sharrona, you certainly are more well read than myself, a devout mormon, in
early church history. I might ask what has been the tone of the LDS church
toward other churches, especially recently? I would submit it has been very
cordial. We recently received counsel from one of our Apostles at a local
meeting, close to where you live, to support and applaud members of other faiths
in their efforts to do good. I've seen my church do that as they have
donated money to the restoration of the Cathedral of the Madelin and other
religious groups not of our faith.
ThomasJefferson wrote:"The level of bigotry and intolerance
displayed by some of the posters is appalling. It is never, ever, appropriate to
mock anyone; their beliefs, their heritage, their culture, their colour, their
sexual orientation....nothing, ever. Pretty sad!"I would agree,
but so long as your Bible and other scriptures "mock", debase, and
otherwise denigrate nonbelievers, then turn about is fair play.Rip
such horrible scriptures from your canon, and perhaps we can all be friends?After all, atheists are people, too.
We as a church have always been mocked. We are also held to a higher standard
than the rest of the churches.
The wind blows the hardest at the top.
Jesus was mocked throughout the New Testament and so were his Apostles.
Christianity is built upon a foundation of moral commandments which don't
ever sit well with the natural man. People don't like to hear that abortion
is murder or homosexual sex is sin. It is human nature to mock and dismiss
anyone who suggests a higher level of living and then actually practice it. The
masses like to pretend there is no sin - no right or wrong - no commandments
which tends to help them feel better about themselves and their chosen reckless
life style (misery loves company). The BIG difference between Christian
commandments and Muslim commandments is with the first you are encouraged with
love to repent and improve your life while the latter you get your hands or head
cut off. What the natural man doesn't understand is that commandments FREE
you and help you to find happiness. This knowledge only comes by doing.
I know of at least one conversion due to some one attending the "Book of
Mormon Musical". There are probably many more. I am LDS and I see a lot
hypocrisy in my faith. Bring up President Obama in a church setting and brace
yourself for the most vile vitriol and personal attacks. In fact I was nearly
assaulted when I tried defend the President in a Sunday School class. And I
didn't even vote for him.
About 160-180 years ago, among other things, Mormons experienced mob violence
(including the shooting of children and rape), destruction of property, The
Extermination Order, murder of missionaries, and violation of our Constitutional
rights. More recently, we've experienced missionaries being brutally
murdered and our sacred text The Book of Mormon being stomped on in response to
our stand on California's prop. 8. And this is just in the United States.
Compared to all that…a vulgar musical, a few cartoon
characters saying stupid things, people walking around our temples loudly
expressing anger is nothing to get upset about. Sometimes you have to let people
be ignorant, if only to keep your perspective.
Catholics, Jews and others are mocked. Maturity would dictate that we not
really worry about it, not be thin-skinned, avoid being reactionary and
defensive. It's time for LDS culture to mature and grow up. The stories
of past atrocities against Mormonism are part of our story, but perhaps we need
to move on. There is a positive message, one in which we need to feel secure,
The reason Mormons deserve to be mocked is evidenced in these comments. Have you
ever seen so much arrogance?
Mormons and non-Mormons can and should tolerate each other. Ever
since I had my first steady girlfriend long ago, I began to learn that there is
a line, and sometimes it seems a fine one, between good natured fun and hurtful
assaults. Some humor is hateful and destructive and designed to
organize existing prejudice; some is the prelude to murderous attack: Lehi was
first mocked, in Jerusalem, and then they sought his life. Jesus was mocked
when he said a dead girl was "just sleeping"; perhaps it was the same
type of people who later clamored for his cruel bodily annihilation.There is a difference between truthfully or sincerely pointing out a supposed
or actual flaw in a system of beliefs, and encouraging hateful prejudices. If there was a "humorous" and "equal opportunity"
attack on Jews and Christians on the Simpsons I am not at all surprised or in
the least supportive. Both Jews and Mormons were driven, deprived of hearth
and home, murdered and imprisoned. The Jews were subjected to a cruel and
systematic attempt to destroy the whole race. When does prejudice cease to be
"Scientist"An excerpt from an English pre-WWII newspaper,
World Press News, said the following:“Christianity teaches
that the Jews are good for nothing. The Jewish religion, however, teaches that
they are the Chosen People to whom one day all the other peoples will be
subordinate. Such a doctrine raises our suspicions. Since the Jews are
systematically raised to be ARROGANT, is no surprise that no one likes
them.”Does anyone deserve to be mistreated because of the
"arrogance" of their religious beliefs? I don't. Mocking Judaism
wasn't right 50 years ago. (Look what it led to.) Mocking Mormonism,
Christianity, or any religion, today isn't right. I disagree with your
comment - nobody ever "deserves" it.
Prop H8TE in California contributed by Mormons caused a lot of hate and
I plead the 11th (Article of Faith). Joseph Smith was told by the Angel Moroni
that his name would be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds,
tongues and people. I suppose that would hold true for the church he founded.
The mocking of Mormonism is prophecy fulfilled.
What does it matter that a few dogs nip at our heels, the caravan moves on.
To Scientist:I would wager I am more educated than you but yet you would
call me a fool, worthy of mocking because I am a believer. You have
displayed nothing but contempt and disrespect for Mormons and the Mormon faith.
We get it. You don't like us. That is fine. You don't have to believe.
But believing doesn't make one a fool.Smug and condescending
comments do NOT improve one's credibility.
@Willem, It's amusing how people throw around words like "Hate"
(or H8TE), "bigotry," or "homophobia," much the same way that
right wing Protestants throw around the word "cult." Since they seldom
if ever, define their terms, I am forced to conclude that "hate" simply
refers to any opinion that happens to be different from theirs. I personally
was involved in the Proposition 8 campaign, and I contributed some of the Mormon
money behind it. I, for one, am proud the be a member of a religious
denomination which can do something more than just dispense a lot of wishy washy
fluff about "diversity."
I think more people have "joined" the Mormon Church, than have
"fallen away" from the Mormon Church over all this "mockery".Sticks and Stones my break my bones, but names will never hurt
me.Time to grow up people....
ABUJA, Nigeria — Nigeria's president has signed a law that bans
same-sex marriage and criminalizes homosexual associations, societies and
meetings, with penalties of up to 14 years in jail. Is this an
example Utah wants to follow?
@A Scientist, Frankly your comments on Mormons, dripping of
condescension and sweeping generalizations of people you don't know, are
routinely some of the most arrogant to be found on the comments to
"Faith" articles. I fail to see how anonymous people you interact with
online deserve what you throw at them. I am saddened and perplexed at your
shallow critiques of Mormonism and the people with whom you choose to surround
yourself in Provo.
Is it good to do this to anyone? Try being a gay person living in Mormonville!
Yeah, I think that I know what the feeling is like! I think we know it well
right about now! It isn't just a dig towards us, you know! It is much more
than a dig. We know what the excuse in our case is. Beliefs! In the case of the
Simpsons, maybe it some people's belief that Mormonism is a cult? whatever
the reason, it doesn't feel very good! There are a lot of reasons people do
it! I know when I have said things it is because I hurt inside! I hurt real bad
sometimes! We can all be so harsh sometimes. I try not to do it even when I am
upset.I think of all the horrible things said to me over the years and I
ask the same question. WHY?I think I have reached the end. I think I have
reached a point when I just won't ask that anymore? It hurts too much. You
are right, we shouldn't treat each other like that. It isn't funny at
I have been a member of the Mormon Church for over 67 years and the only emotion
I feel when I read these sharp comments is I feel sorry for these people. They
are missing out on such a wonderful and uplifting life. Of course there will
always be those who are critical with their comments but we just let them slide
off our backs...we know that as long as we are honest and Christ-like in our
words and actions we will have the wisdom to not react negatively but to
hopefully be able to reach out to those who are truly seeking the Truth but
don't know how to go about it. Our hope is to emulate Jesus Christ in all
we do and say.
I lived in Salt Lake City many years. During that time and since I don't
think I ever heard any friends or acquaintances mock mormons. I have heard
people laugh about mormon doctrine or how a seer stone was used in founding the
religion. But that's about it. Mostly people are respectful.
@The ScientistProvo, UTThe reason Mormons deserve to be mocked is
evidenced in these comments. Have you ever seen so much arrogance?Well scientist I have seen such arrogant comments made by a certain atheist
Mormons play the victim card better than anyone, yet blind themselves to their
own disregard of others.Typical
idablu wrote:"To Scientist:I would wager I am more
educated than you but yet you would call me a fool, worthy of mocking because I
am a believer."How much are you prepared to lose?
As I see it, if you need to troll the DN daily to poke Mormons with sticks,
carping defensively about the pushback that such puerile bullying generates is
If you don't like a show then get a petition going to get it moved to a
different time or canceled all together.We as LDS will be bullied
that kind of comes with the territory. Is it fair or right? No it is not but
rather than fighting back about every incorrect piece of information sloshed out
about the church. I would rather expend my energy on things that will make a
difference in my life and the lives around me.
One can mock all they want. It happened in the past and it will happen in the
future.all we can do I STAND UP. Stand up for what we believe.Stand up to our
rights to believe in what we do. Stand up for any other religious group who is
being abused by these non believers. Stand strong. Or sit down a d watch
other's get abused by them
Fools mock. Why is it OK to mock the Mormons? Because Mormons
don't cut your head off when you mock them. And because Mormons are viewed
by the conventional wisdom as middle-class white people (although they're
not, necessarily), and it's OK to mock that bunch. Because privilege, or
i saw the episode of the Simpsons, that was mentioned in the article. I felt
that it was making fun of the concept that Mormons were a cult. Let's not
be so thinned skin. There is much that could be mocked about us by people that
do not know us, and as they get to know us the humor will get kinder.
If the LDS Church wants the public at large to practice a "live and let
live" attitude towards them, then perhaps they should let those of other
faiths live and let live as well. What's good for the goose...
Where to begin with this…First, it's worth pointing out
that Mormons aren't actually the only religious group that Hollywood and
Broadway feel it's "safe" to target. Christians in general come
under attack in society regularly today, and it is due to a number of
factors:1) The majority of people involved in the entertainment
industry are irreligious, or belong to religions that are opposed to
Christianity (Jews, Scientologists, etc.)2) Christianity is viewed as a
"majority" religion, and thus is not subject to the protections that are
offered to "minority" groups in our modern, liberal culture,3) The
mostly Evangelical Protestant "Christian right" has tarnished the image
of Christianity in the eyes of the public as intolerant, hateful, and
anti-scientific. 4) Gays and lesbians, who object to Christianity's
moral teachings, wield tremendous power in the media as well and use it as an
outlet to present their views,5) People know they can get away with
attacking Christians with little to know retaliation, because unlike members of
some other religious groups, they don't have to worry about being the
targets of violence (viz: Muslims) or expensive lawsuits combined with
accusations of neo-Nazism (Jews)(cont'd)
Mormons in particular have a reputation for being excessively "nice",
while at the same time being very earnest in sharing their beliefs with others.
Mormons are the kinds of people that, in high school, would be stuffed into
lockers or given wedgies by the kinds of people that come to dominate the media
and the culture later in life. In other words, people ridicule Mormons simply
because they can: they know they can say whatever they want about this
particular group and suffer no consequences for it, because they won't
stand up for themselves, and no one else will stand up for them. They are
ignorant of the history of persecution that members of the Church have suffered,
(frankly, they are ignorant of history in general), and they don't care to
gain any more than a superficial understanding of the Church's beliefs,
because they are lazy and content with living in mediocrity.(cont'd)
Finally, even though the LDS Church is one of the most ethnically diverse
religious organizations on the planet, because of how relatively recently the
Church has begun to expand outside of the United States, the stereotypical
Mormon in the eyes of the general public is a white, upper-middle-class American
male of northern European descent. Thus, unlike with other ethnic groups, people
feel like they can attack Mormons without being labeled as "racists",
since in the eyes of many it is impossible to be "racist" against white
people. The fact that most members of the Church are no longer white means
nothing to these people, because, as previously stated, they are ignorant, and
they have no desire to learn any more than they already do.(cont'd)
If members of the Church want to end the crass religious bigotry directed
towards us, they will have to start standing up for themselves instead of
passively letting others walk all over them. However, as the true church of
Jesus Christ, we are instead commanded to "turn the other cheek" and
suffer persecution in the same way that he did. Thankfully the persecution is
not quite as bad today as it was 150 years ago. But as the Church continues to
grow and gain a higher profile in the world, and as the world's values
continue to diverge so radically away from the Church's, the persecution
will only continue to get worse and worse. The voices in the Great and Spacious
Building will never be louder than they are in the moments before the
Savior's second coming. We have to be prepared for that, because without
strong testimonies it will be almost impossible to endure.