Comments about ‘Traditional marriage advocates rally over lunch in Orem to make voices heard’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 8 2014 6:05 p.m. MST

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aunt lucy
Looneyville, UT

To those who claim that SSM presents no threat to society and traditional marriage and also to those who are so easily persuaded because they know someone who is really nice and wants to have a SSM, I say do a quick Google search and read of the consequences to religious freedoms in today's society. It is far reaching and very troubling. Those in favor are greatly camouflaging the far reaching consequences. This isn't just a be fair and nice to everyone issue as many try to make it. That is a given; however, to change the moral foundation of our country is not just some small thing. please do your own search and see what the effects have already been in other states just a few strides ahead of Utah in this controversy. I applaud those who are standing firm. In saying this, I truly do not attack anyone personally- just the issue.

EDM
Castle Valley, Utah

@meckofahess 11:35

"However, as an LDS member are you suggesting that we should disregard the Proclamation on The Family? Should we disregard what the scriptures say about the sinfulness of homosexuality? Should we disregard the the teachings of our leaders? Should we disregard our conscience?"

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer, if you don't mind. Answer: Take it all with a grain of salt.
- I have brave, active, temple-working family members who have made it very clear to church leaders that they do not agree with the Proclamation because it isn't inclusive.
- We should never read the scriptures literally. Can you imagine trying to buy clothing that doesn't have blended fabrics because the Bible instructs us not to wear such things?
- We should never follow our leaders without listening to our own moral compass first. Be brave when your moral compass tells you something different than you hear from church leaders. All good LDS church leaders will tell you they are fallible, and will respect your position when you are true to yourself.

mysticjazz
Bountiful, UT

The Family: A Proclamation to the world was issued by the LDS church in 1995. Nearly 2 decades later we are seeing how prophetic it actually was. here are some points on that proclamation.
Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God.
The family is ordained of God and central to God's plan.
All human beings are created in the image of God.
Gender is an essential characteristic of human identity before, during, and after life on Earth.
Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity.
Fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners.

President Hinckly, LDS prophet at the time of the proclamation has been quoted "our opposition to attempts to legalize same-sex marriage should never be interpreted as justification for hatred, intolerance, or abuse of those who profess homosexual tendencies, either individually or as a group.

Lastly, we were counseled that "Citizens and officers of government should promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society"

We must no longer be the silent majority

john d
REXBURG, ID

marriage equality is a worldly thing not a religious thing. if you are for the worldly things in life then ssm is for you if you are for ssm what is the next step marriage in temples and churches. there agenda doesn't stop here.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

I'm LDS Too: This is the most irresponsible bizarre understanding of said scripture that I have ever heard. If you are a member in good standing, I would challenge you to go tell the Prophet that you supposedly sustain that he doesn't speak for God when he says that marriage is between a man and a women. I assume you haven't read any statements by present or past prophets concerning the matter, nor do you reflect even the vaguest understanding that all of our law represents religious influence, including the concept of marriage. When I hear an LDS person state that there is no connection between religious laws and civil laws, I am astonished beyond measure. I am only reminded of not only darkness, but how deep is that darkness. With your brazen statements, I can only assume that at some point your tag line will include the word "Once...but not anymore!"

truth in all its forms
henderson, NV

keep the faith ladies! we need more people like you to stand up to activist judges, and prove that the best way to raise a family is between a mother and a father. This is the number one threat to not only Utah, but also to the world right now! This is a war that can only be one by standing up for whats right, and letting the pro SSM liberal activist judges know we will not be intimidated and force to accept whats wrong, but that we will stand together and fight for whats right! our family, nay our world depends on us to stop this!

SlopJ30
St Louis, MO

Meckofahess says:

"However, as an LDS member are you suggesting that we should disregard the Proclamation on The Family?"

Nope; feel free to wallpaper your kitchen with it and recite it every morning at dawn, but you can't expect anyone who's not of your faith to treat it with reverence, can you?

"Forcing parents to accept the teaching of homosexuality in schools . . "

High comedy! What exactly is the "teaching of homosexuality"? Are we talking physical mechanics or simply fabulous fashion tips?

"Allowing those confused about their gender identity to enter into opposite sex restrooms and locker rooms."

Higher comedy! I must've missed all the unisex bathroom rallies whipping the Gay Mafia into a frenzy. Because, of course, gays want nothing more than to see the opposite sex go to the bathroom. I vaguely remember my father going on about this during the ERA debate of the 70's. It was goofy then and it's goofy now.

"Don't stop loving your son, but don't deny me my rights, either."

It's like a broken record. What rights are you being denied? Your right for other consenting adults not to marry?

1.96 Standard Deviations
OREM, UT

I M LDS 2 (from page 1 of comments):

You have "wrested" (which means twisted) the scriptures in D&C 134 with a clearly false interpretation and application. You might want to follow gittalopctbi's advice (page 1 of comments) and re-read 2 Peter 1:20 and Alma 13:20 about interpreting and "wresting" the scriptures.

Add to your reading Ephesian 4:11-14. In summary, God gave prophets/apostles so "that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive." You well know what the First Presidency and 12 Apostles have said regarding the matter on marriage. Read the Proclamation about the Family!

Lastly, President Hinckley said in the 1999 October Conference Talk, Why We Do Some of the Things We Do, the following:

"God-sanctioned marriage between a man and a woman has been the basis of civilization for thousands of years. There is no justification to redefine what marriage is. Such is not our right, and those who try will find themselves answerable to God."

A Quaker
Brooklyn, NY

@donn:

"For the right joining in marriage is the work of the Lord only, and not the priests or magistrates; for it is God's ordinance and not Man's; and therefore Friends cannot consent that they should join them together; for we marry none; it is the Lord's work, and we are but witnesses." -- George Fox, 1669

Taking this Truth, and living our Testimony of Equality, some Quaker Meetings have discerned that when two men or two women have been joined together in this fashion, we may witness it and celebrate their marriage under the care of our Meetings in the same fashion as we do men-women marriages. It is the work of the Lord, not of Man, and not ours to reject.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Some people view this as some sort of ant hill to be quickly breezed through and to get on with more important things! Nothing could be further from the truth. This issue isn't about marriage; it is about destroying God. It is hard to believe so many, even one is astonishing, LDS people who haven't read the Book of Mormon scripture that says that you can't take happiness in sin. If LDS people are afraid to even stand by one of the most cherished institutions God has ever created to bring children into the world, what other issue really matters? It is time stand for something! This is a welcoming battle and great division that is looming here in Utah and across the country! No one will be able to straddle the fence on this one. A merciful God doesn't look kindly on those who take His word and spit on it!

nycut
New York, NY

"Gay marriage a Trojan horse... an attack on religion!!"

Oh brother.

Utah's religious "family values" have driven Utah's sons and daughters out of their families, their homes, their state for far too long. Lives have been diminished and destroyed.

It's hard to have sympathy for someone whose greatest fear is that someone, somewhere, might be "forced" to bake a cake.

Man the battle stations!

It's true that kids might encounter this scary fact in school: Some people are gay and fall in love, get married, raise kids, and lead perfectly recognizable lives.

InLifeHappiness
Salt Lake City, UT

@ImaUteFan
Proclamation of the Family says man and woman, husband and wife; however, it does not say "biological" because it cannot, as many are born with mixed organs (medically speaking). Utah ironically has pushed the issue of marriage freedom all the way to the Supreme Court which may require all states to comply with possible new federal ruling in favor of marriage equality for all (Governor ruling, A.G. ruling, contemptible legal advice to county, state, and federal administrations and emergency stay instead of calm appeal procedure). Utah's new attorney general has just guaranteed that the both the federal Circuit Court and the U.S. Supreme Court will find Utah in violation of the 14th Amendment concerning legal marriage, thus invalidating an individual state as final arbiter of marriage. This has left the federal courts with no recourse other than invalidating both a state attorney general's definition of legal marriage and a state constitution's definition of legal marriage when such definitions abridge the rights of citizens as stated in the Supreme Court's invalidation of DOMA.

Spellman789
Syracuse, UT

I love the LGBT community enough to show them the path they are on is a dead end. There is a life after this, and what can they expect? To continue in this lifestyle after death? For LDS individuals you know the only marriage relationships that will continue beyond the grave are those sealed in holy temples between a man and a woman who keep their committments. Why are we encouraging and even applauding so called equal marriage when you know it is not equal, and same sex marriage is a dead end. Can two people "love" each other, sure. Will it last? No. What kind of love is that to encourage someone in a relationship that will end as surely as this life will end? What about the long term?

Tiago
Seattle, WA

To those who are surprised that members of the church in good standing could support marriage equality, I will try to explain my position. I am fully active in the church. I listen to all of general conference and review it during the year, read the scriptures, pray, and attend the temple.
I also experience same sex attraction and have many friends who experience this. I will personally follow my beliefs and never have a relationship with another man. It is a sacrifice I make because of my beliefs. I support other people of faith who do the same thing, but I would never try to pressure someone who doesn't believe to make the same choice because it would not help them. It would be cruel. I think that nonreligious gay people who want to marry and be faithful to one person for a lifetime is a lot better than making an environment where they feel shunned and have to hide their love in back alleys.
Public disapproval, shunning, and maligning will not help any gay person. Let's support them in their good intentions to form committed relationships.

I M LDS 2
Provo, UT

ImaUteFan,

"the Proclamation on the Family" is not canonized scripture. The Doctrine & Covenants IS. Scripture trumps everything else. Church leaders have said so themselves.

Additionally, this quote: "Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets" does not contradict or go against marriage equality. There is NO evidence that marriage equality would contribute to, cause, or in any way bring about one iota of "disintegration of the family". In fact, it creates INTEGRITY in the newly formed families of same sex couples!

When the Church Leaders say, "We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society." - I run with that call to support marriage equality, which explicitly strengthens ALL families (notice the Brethren do not single out on "traditional" families) as the fundamental unit of society!

I strongly believe not only will history, but also Heavenly Father, will vindicate my interpretation, which I feel has been confirmed by the Spirit.

aunt lucy
Looneyville, UT

@bandersen @ 1.96 standard deviation

So well said! I stand with you on this issue.

OHBU
Columbus, OH

"This is a war that can only be one by standing up for whats right, and letting the pro SSM liberal activist judges know we will not be intimidated and force to accept whats wrong, but that we will stand together and fight for whats right! our family, nay our world depends on us to stop this!"

Actually, you will. One of the best ideas that came out of the founding of this nation was the system of checks and balances. The courts were established to address the fears of thinkers like Adams who feared the tyranny of the majority stepping on the rights of the minority. What these "activist judges" are doing is exactly what they are supposed to do: rule according to what they feel is the law and ensure the Constitution isn't violated. People have fought the decisions before (Little Rock, anyone?), but in the end, you will be forced to accept it.

Bob K
portland, OR

bandersen
Saint George, UT
"This issue isn't about marriage; it is about destroying God."

.... Uhhh, if He is God, He cannot be destroyed"

"It is hard to believe so many, even one is astonishing, LDS people who haven't read the Book of Mormon scripture that says that you can't take happiness in sin."

... It's astonishing to think that too many lds members think that Civil Law and the US Constitution are subordinate to the book of mormon.
-----
Mr__scott
Alpine, UT
"We often talk about the gay marriage issue in terms of freedom and love. We are bound to mutual respect for each other and our different views....
God made both man and woman, and has only sanctified sexual relations within the divinely appointed union of marriage. All sexual relations outside of this are held by God as sin."

--- I would not have the slightest argument with that, if you kept it at church and did not expect to add it to Civil Law.

EXCEPT that it breaks my heart, and (for me) offends God mightily, when you produce Gay children and tell them that what God put in their heart is evil and bad.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Of course it affects my marriages and my children and society at large. Children growing up thinking this is normal are going to be confused and weakened both socially and morally.'

People don't even see it, do they?

Making the fabricated and false claim that marriage equality affects 'my marriages and y children'…

when 1) In the SAME SENTENCE (perhaps by omission) the person claims 1) marriages. Plural. When marriage is 'traditionally' only supposed to be once in a lifetime.

2) In the SAME SENTENCE claims that the 'direct' harm done by marriage equality to the person…

effects an abstract and not individual 'society'.

Look. I understand people feel strongly about marriage equality.

But lying about what actually happens when Utah allowed marriage equality?

Does not mean you are on the 'right' side of history, when you have to lie.

donn
layton, UT

RE A Quaker, Quaker Meetings have discerned that when two men or two women have been joined together in this fashion, we may witness it and celebrate their marriage under the care of our Meetings in the same fashion as we do men-women marriages. It is the work of the Lord, not of Man, and not ours to reject. Wrong,

… do you not know that the unrighteous] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality(1 Cor 6:9).

…, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.(Rom 1:26-27)

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