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Comments about ‘Traditional marriage advocates rally over lunch in Orem to make voices heard’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 8 2014 6:05 p.m. MST

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RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To those of you that think that children raised by same sex couples are no different than children raised by their biological mother and father that are married, you are wrong.

There are quite a few studies out there showing that children raised by same sex couples are more likely to identify as gay, experiment with homosexual behavior, or engage in risky sexual behavior.

There are also a few studies out there that show that the ideal situation for children is to grow up in a home with their mother and father. The children exhibit better emotional behavior and are least likely to experience abuse.

So, rather than fight for second rate homes to put children, how about we fight to make every home the best for children, meaning they are raised by their married biological mother and father.

DUPDaze
Bakersfield, CA

Just curious Ranch- What religion teaches that same sexes can be a parental unit, or could be a procreating, functional family head, or should have legal married status?

How mean-spirited to call "superstitious" what has been practiced tradition and sacred, religious belief virtually globally for all of written history and then suggest that your very new fight this new century in your less-than-300-years-old-country gets to redefine terms and legality 'cuz it's the latest fad.

At least find some civility. Your "superstitions" and redefinitions are being hard fought for a reason: they are a paradigm shift on every level. Someone else needs a good dose of reality and a history lesson. Live your life however you want, but don't expect the world to turn over their dictionaries and law books just because you want legal status.

What's next, Shariah Law 'cuz a Mullah gets on CNN? Work for your new laws and changes and stop belittling others for their sacred beliefs.

Meckofahess
Salt Lake City, UT

@Simple Truths

I can certainly appreciate that you have a sensitive perspective on this issue having a gay son. I applaud you for loving and accepting him and his partner. However, as an LDS member are you suggesting that we should disregard the Proclamation on The Family? Should we disregard what the scriptures say about the sinfulness of homosexuality? Should we disregard the the teachings of our leaders? Should we disregard our conscience?

I wonder if you have considered other issues associated with adopting same-sex marriage laws such as:
- Forcing parents to accept the teaching of homosexuality in schools to kindergarten children without parental permission
- Allowing those confused about their gender identity to enter into opposite sex restrooms and locker rooms
- Causing employers to layoff straight people for fear of prosecution because gays become a "protected class of people" or in other words have special rights that you don't.

Not quite so simple as having empathy and love for a gay child is it? There is a lot more to consider brother. Don't stop loving your son, but please don't deny me of my rights either.

UTSU
Logan, UT

"Even the Republican Party in Massachusetts has caved and will no longer oppose same-sex marriage," the former GOP U.S. Senate candidate said, adding that Republicans there now march in gay pride parades.
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And Cherilyn Eagar still believes "We're not in a losing battle"?

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'Jensen, the Pleasant Grove mother, said she's going to pass on the information she received Wednesday and at another meeting last week, starting with her own family. She's also taking to Facebook and Twitter. So far, she said, she hasn’t received many "likes" or comments to her posts.
"People, I think, are too afraid of offending someone. It's really sad because we're giving up our freedom of speech by doing that," she said.'

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Ms. Jensen, do you know why you haven't received many "likes"? You went to the wrong places. Who use facebook and twitter most these days? Young people. And who support marriage equality most? Young people. No wonder you don't have many "likes"

It is not because they are too afraid of offending gays, they just don't agree with you on this issue. That's all.

Crow
Sandy , UT

@ I M LDS 2 You said that it is high time we followed our true Master. Jesus said, "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh" (Mark 10:7-8). One man. One woman.

So if you are going to follow the True Master you would not support SSM and you would know that even Christ taught against SSM.

katy
salt lake city, ut

Since "marriage" is between a man and a woman, why don't they call a marriage between the same sexes a different name. Marital bliss, Forever After, Happy Union or whatever. We have no problems with allowing people who are committed to each other and go thru a ceremony of some kind pledging their love to each other receiving the same benefits. It would save a lot of arguments and bad feelings if they called their union by a different name.

The definition and what takes place in the term "marriage" will always be different than what same sex unions are.

UTSU
Logan, UT

@katy,

Even if it goes your way, you have to strike down amendment 3 first, it bans both gay marriage and other equivalent unions.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: A Quaker, The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience is a manifesto issued by Orthodox, Catholic and Evangelical. (Christians united by the belief in the Tri-une God).

Marriage,The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man.” For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:23-24.

However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:32-33 In Scripture, the creation of man and woman, and their one-flesh union as husband and wife, is the. crowning achievement of God’s creation. In the transmission of life and the nurturing of children, men and women joined as spouses are given the great honor of being partners with God Himself. Marriage then, is the first institution of human society.

The Christian tradition refers to marriage as “holy matrimony” because it is an institution ordained by God, and blessed by Christ in his participation at a wedding in Cana of Galilee.

Versant
AnyTown, UT

Several comments have referred to "The Family: A Proclamation to the World". First of all, I believe this is a prophetic declaration. It was presented to the world by the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in 1995, well ahead of the current controversy. The family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His plan.

It wasn't Adam and Steve in the Garden of Eden, otherwise none of us would be here. It was Adam and Eve and they bore and raised children as they were commanded. This is not a civil rights or equality issue. It is a moral one. Children (offspring) cannot naturally result from a so called same-sex union. It frustrates Gods plan. This is why I am opposed to it.

As several have identified themselves as members of the LDS Church in support of same-sex marriage; I would challenge you to read or re-read your Prophet and Apostles declaration. It should help you understand the effects on children and society.

DUPDaze
Bakersfield, CA

Wow- How juicy for Utah to have to deal with the freakiness of redefining traditional marriage, again. Talk about flip-flops... The 1890 Manifesto didn't settle all problems that polygamy brought.

Still curious how quickly the pews would empty should Pres. Monson give a pro-SSM Proclamation? If this site is an indicator, it's 27:7, the reverse!

To answer my own previous question #2 (because LDS seem to think that non-Utahans have forgotten all pre-1890 practices and exaltation doctrines), Utah lawmakers wanna pretend Fundamentalists live on another planet not of their making. Actually dealing with the fallout of Joseph Smith's signature doctrine will bring them face-to-face with the consequences of their defining foundational religion. And that is something they've managed to avoid since statehood.

I say this battle is long overdue. Since Joseph and Brigham redefined American and Biblical Christianity, let's see what standard they will use in this arena.

From Ted's Head
Orem, UT

I guess what bothers me most about the comments on this and the other newspaper sites is that it is so unnecessary and solves little other than providing a place to vent. Fundamentally we aren't all starting with the same premises or assumptions. How can the "homophobes" and "homophiles" possibly agree about what constitutes marriage when they don't agree on the existence or nature of a God, whether or not Jesus Christ was real and the Son of God, or whether or not Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God? For most LDS folks I would imagine that these beliefs factor into their decisions about politics, laws, society norms, etc etc. Generally LDS people are against most abortions, view drinking alcohol as a vice, and see homosexual intimacy as a sin against God and nature. Ergo, they support laws that prohibit these activities as part of their war against sin, an obligation they embrace as a result of the covenants they have made. They will continue to fight against sin and for what they believe their God has decreed is the proper, allowable form of marriage. Next battleground: religious liberty.

ImaUteFan
West Jordan, UT

Breathe Deep - I, too, am baffled by the support of SSM by "active" LDS members. However, the phrase that keeps coming to mind is "Even the very elect shall be deceived."

I'm also reminded that we've been counselled that in the last days, the greatest opposition to the Church will come from within.

Breathe Deep
Eagle Rock, ID

@ ImaUteFan

Your comments are very true indeed. I can clearly see this happening right before our very eyes.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

re:Meckofahess

The scriptures have more to say about divorce than homosexuality.

#1 Schools aren't teaching "homosexuality." They are teaching children to be kind and respectful of those different from themselves. On the other hand, you are free, have the right, to teach your children the opposite and to teach them to not associate with school/classmates who are gay or who live in a same-sex household. You also have the right to send your child to a religious school.

#2 Being transgender is not mere "confusion." It is a real condition that frequently becomes evident at an early age. Read the story "Led by the Child Who Simply Knew" in the Boston Globe about Jonas and Wyatt Maines. You have more to learn.

#3 ??? can't even address this ridiculous claim.

You are correct. Life is not simple--it didn't even start simple with Adam and Eve who were confronted with conflicting choices.

Bob A. Bohey
Marlborough, MA

@Meckofahess:"Marriage has been universally acknowledged throughout history as a legal contract between a man and a woman in which there is emotional and sexual fidelity, along with childrearing"
NOT TRUE, NOT TRUE, NOT TRUE! It never ceases to amaze me how little "traditional" marriage advocates actually know about "traditional marriages" or marriage at all for that matter.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@katy
"We have no problems with allowing people who are committed to each other and go thru a ceremony of some kind pledging their love to each other receiving the same benefits"

You all wouldn't have voted for Amendment 3 (which bans civil unions or anything that sets it up so that they receive roughly the same benefits) if that were the case.

@ImaUteFan
"I, too, am baffled by the support of SSM by "active" LDS members. "

It's quite simple, most of them don't think the LDS church should recognize same-sex couples, but they are opposed to intruding on others outside the church. This is typically based on AoF 11 and AoF 12 (the latter) based on believing that banning same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.

@Meckofahess
"- Allowing those confused about their gender identity to enter into opposite sex restrooms and locker rooms"

That's a trans issue, not a gay/lesbian issue. Same sex marriage has nothing to do with that.

"- Causing employers to layoff straight people for fear of prosecution because gays become a "protected class of people""

Nondiscrimination protects people from being fired for sexual orientation. Firing someone because they're straight would also be a violation.

A Quaker
Brooklyn, NY

Katy: As a Quaker, I'm pretty much committed to Equality. It's one of our most important Testimonies, and it comes from our discernment that That Of God lives in each of His children, since He made them. You're conceding that you're willing to treat gay people the same, and I commend you for that, but only as long as you can fool yourself that it's something different.

It's not. All love comes from God, the universal source of all love. When two people love each other, that's God's love, speaking through each of them, to each of them, and to all of us.

One of the most important legal benefits of marriage is being treated as a household unit by the government, and for now at least, the Federal government only fully recognizes the word "marriage." To give people equal treatment, you must let them use the one word that the Feds recognize.

To DUPDaze: We do. The Friends General Conference of the Religious Society of Friends supports same-sex couples and families and treats them with the respect we accord all couples and families. Google FGCQuaker same-sex.

oragami
St. George, UT

I don't know why my last three posts have been rejected by DN? I always try to stay respectful.

Anyway, people fighting against same-sex marriage have yet to provide any compelling evidence that justifies restricting marriage to one man-one woman that does not also justify criminalizing divorce and adoption by homosexuals and single people.

Without also calling for these restrictions, your arguments have no logic or validity.

donn
layton, UT

@A Quaker. Traditional marriage. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man.” For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:23-24.

However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:32-33 In Scripture, the creation of man and woman, and their one-flesh union as husband and wife, is the. crowning achievement of God’s creation. In the transmission of life and the nurturing of children, men and women joined as spouses are given the great honor of being partners with God Himself. Marriage then, is the first institution of human society.

The Christian tradition refers to marriage as “holy matrimony” because it is an institution ordained by God, and blessed by Christ in his participation at a wedding in Cana of Galilee.
The Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience is a manifesto issued by Orthodox, Catholic and Evangelical. (Christians united by the belief in the Tri-une God).

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

Glad to see conservative Christians waking up in Utah....finally. These people tend to be pretty silent on issues until they sense danger and then they act. I have said this a thousand times... we are at WAR in the country with the progressive left. It may not be a war of guns and bullets but it is none the less a war where there can only be winners and losers. No room for compromise. If people in the state of Utah want to maintain the quality, family friendly ,wholesome neighborhoods to raise their kids in then they are going to have to FIGHT for them. I could care less what those on the left think or want ... don't care anymore. Those on the left have their view of America and it is not my view or hope for America. Not even in the same universe. I liked what Pres Reagan once said when asked about his views on the Cold War. He simply said "we win and they lose". That sums up my feelings exactly going forward.

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