Published: Tuesday, Jan. 7 2014 12:00 a.m. MST
Utah is governed by a Supreme Law. That State's Constitution is that
Supreme Law. That Constitution defines marriage. That definition was put there
by the people of Utah. We voted on it. The Legislature can it do nothing about
marriage unless the people repeal that part of the State's Constitution.All duties not enumerated in the U.S. Constitution are left to the
States. Issuing marriage licenses is not a duty of the U.S. Government. No
authority has ever been given to the Federal Government by the people of the
United States to define marriage or to issue marriage licenses. The10th
Amendment clearly states that all duties not enumerated by the U.S. Constitution
are to be left to the States or to the People.The 14th Amendment
does not define marriage. It does not give the Federal Government the right to
define marriage. It does not give the Federal Government to declare a
person's sex based on that person's feelings nor to grant rights based
on "feelings".The family is too important to be redefined by
those who think that God made a mistake when He made them a man or a woman.
Good Grief...The world always looks bleaker when all you see are
straw men on your way down a slippery slope...
Joan;Businesses are in business to make money, not just to
"provide services to 'heterosexual' couples". Businesses that
make money by providing wedding services should provide those services to all
couples, regardless of the type of wedding being performed. Research
"Public accomodation laws".Churches already have the First
Amendment right to perform ceremonies for whomever they choose and deny whomever
they choose. Marriage laws won't need modification for LGBT
marriage: IT IS THE SAME as straight marriage per the law. A contract between
two people to merge their lives into a familial unit.
@Mike Richards;Wrong. Utah is governed by The Constitution of the
United States which takes precedence over ANYTHING in the state's
constitution that violates the US Constitution.We are NOT a
theocracy. Your "god" has no standing.
@ Mike: Perhaps you should actually read the Utah State Constitution - and pay
particular attention to where it states the the US Constitution is the supreme
law if the land. As for the rest of your arguments - that would be
why the current court case is an ongoing matter. And your repeated claims which
ignore history and facts you find inconvenient do very little to further the
discussion or prove that Amendment 3 should be upheld. Perhaps you
should spend some time actually reading the cases/decisions and come up with
arguments that address the points raised?
Mike Said: " It does not give the Federal Government to declare a
person's sex based on that person's feelings nor to grant rights based
on "feelings"."Feelings-You mean like your entire
argument is based on? I feel my religion is right, I feel like discriminating
based on my hatred or feelings? Or your right to religious freedom which is
based on "Feelings" and I'll ad religion is a choice, based on
feelings that is protected by the constitution. So Feelings are important and
concrete in religious context but invalid in the individual, got it.The legislature should probably not bother being pro active as they will most
likely be wrong, again.
' I believe the Utah Legislature needs to become proactive and start
discussions now about how to deal with this problem.' Something
is only a problem… when you offer zero solutions.
Let's factually take a look at the consequences of gay marriage.5 years: *'After 5 Years of Legal Gay Marriage, Massachusetts still
has the lowest state divorce rate...' - Bruce Wilson - AlterNet -
08/24/09Line:'Massachusetts retains the national title as
the lowest divorce rate state, and the MA divorce rate is about where the US
divorce rate was in 1940, prior to the Japanese bombing of Pearl
Harbor.'10 years: *'TEN YEARS later, 85 Percent of
Massachusetts voters say NO HARM from Marriage Equality' –
09/27/13'Massachusetts now has the lowest divorce rate in the nation,
same-sex families now enjoy full legal protections….' So,
what has factually happened after gay marriage? Nothing.
If you are going to fabricate reasons to be against marriage equality, you are
going to have a rough day before the supreme court. Opinions <
Facts. And if God is perfect, and made everything…
why do some choose to find fault with the LGBT people he created?
Ranch, You misunderstand the Constitution. You misunderstand the
Federation of States that constitute the United States. You misunderstand the
limits imposed on the Federal Government by the Constitution. You misrepresent
the 14th Amendment which guaranteed that SLAVES would be recognized as citizens
and no longer be treated as property. Nothing in the 14th Amendment requires
special privileges for those whose feelings contradict their physical
appearance. And most importantly, you misrepresent the God whom you represented
as a missionary.Read the Constitution as it is written, not as you
wish that it had been written. Read the limited authority granted by the people
to the Federal Government. Learn for yourself that you are a citizen of the
State of Utah. Your birth certificate tells you that. Your driver's
license tells you that. If you own a business, your business license tells you
that. Nothing on those documents mentions the United States of America. The
highest government official in America who has responsibility for you is the
Governor, not the President. The President represents the Federation of States
and is elected by the States representatives in the electoral college.Understanding is the first step of enlightenment.
You can't make something illegal retroactively. Everyone who married
during the past couple of weeks entered their contracts with good faith. Those
contracts are legal and need to be honored.
One thing that hasn't happened yet would change this 'do heterosexual
businesses have to serve same sex couples' discussion. Someone, somewhere,
has to deny service to someone because they're heterosexual. It could be an
apartment or an ice cream cone, it doesn't matter. They just have to come
out and say 'we don't serve your kind'. Equality should come
quickly after that.
Those who use the fallacious claim that the United States should subject all
States to a uniform set of rules in everything that touches our lives have
opened an argument that they cannot support. All they have to do is to look at
their driver's license. The State controls who can drive in Utah. It
allows non-citizens of Utah to drive for a limited time in Utah, but if they
stay for any length of time, they must give a Utah Driver's License to
continue driving. If those people looked at the license plates on their
vehicles, they would see that those plates are issued by Utah and that they must
have Utah plates if they reside here for any length of time. When they visit
their doctor, they will see that his license to treat them is issued by the
State of Utah. When they visit their lawyer, he will have a license to practice
law in Utah.Their claim that the 14th Amendment gives them special
rights based on their denial of their physical attributes is as absurd as their
reluctance to recongize a State's soverign authority.
Mike -- Good morning, on guard...1. The Utah State Constitution
clearly states that the United States Consitution is the Supreme law of the
land.2. If you only want Utah to only recognize "Utah"
marriages, then never move to another State. You would be committing
adultery.3. You are Mormon based on your "feelings". You are
protected for it under the Constitution. Same applies here.4. Still
haven't got the whole difference between Transgender and Homosexual thing
figured out yet, have you.5. The LDS Church recognizes than SameSex
Attration is real, and has dedicated an entire website to it, are you implying
God makes mistakes?
J ThompsonSPRINGVILLE, UT========= OK, let's
see how this holds up to the smell test... The State controls who
can [marry] in Utah. It allows non-citizens of Utah to [marry] for a limited
time in Utah, but if they stay for any length of time, they must get a Utah
[Marriage] License to continue [being married]. If those people looked at the
license on their [marriage], they would see that those are issued by Utah and
that they must have Utah [marriage] if they reside here for any length of time.
When they visit their [wife], they will see that [her] license to treat them is
issued by the State of Utah. When they visit their [husband], he will have a
license to practice [marriage] in Utah.========Marriage
is valid in all states, with no time limits, regardless of what the state the
license was issued.If you move to another state you are not
logically legally and lawfully wedded.You are also committing adultery.Therefore -- Federal level.Smell test, failed!
@ mike richards. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Are you against
giving citizens their constitutional rights? Why can't we let people live
their lives as they see fit?
The letter writer feels that the Utah State Legislature should become pro-active
regarding SSM. It wouldn't do any good. The courts will annul what the
citizens of Utah through their legislature uphold.
Claiming that "feelings" are "Constitutional Rights"
misrepresents the Constitution. We have the right to PURSUE happiness. The
Constitution does not grant us happiness. The Constitution does not guarantee
us equality. If you think differently, walk into your boss's office and
demand to be paid the same as he or she is paid. If you think that the 14th
Amendment guarantees equality, show up at a hospital and demand the right to
perform brain surgery or walk into an airport and demand to be allowed to fly a
767. Someone who "feels" that God gave him/her the wrong sex
is homosexual, Airnaut. Someone who gets surgical help to change that gender is
transexual. In neither case has that person changed God's will about that
person's gender."Feeling" that you deserve a
bank's money does not a judge under the 14th Amendment to give you equal
access to that money. Redefining "marriage" not a basis for
changing the most important and the most fundament unit of society - the Family.
Read "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" if you want to know
exactly what LDS Church prophets have said about marriage, about gender, about
males and about females.
@Mike Richards.I disagree with one of your premises about American
citizenship. I think of myself as a citizen of the United States and a resident
of Utah. You direct us to look at our drivers license. I did. It says nothing
about citizenship. But the Utah Department of Public Safety website makes clear
that a drivers license is contingent upon Utah residency. According
to the Lieutenant Governor's office, I am qualified to be governor of this
state if I am a U.S. citizen who has been a resident of Utah for 5 years. "Understanding is the first step of enlightenment."
@Mike Richards:1. All persons born or naturalized in the United
States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United
States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any
law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United
States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,
without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the
equal protection of the laws.Please explain to me how "All
persons" only means "slaves". All, means "ALL".Please detail how "nor shan any state deprive ANY person of" not apply
to LGBT citizens.You can't.
@Mike Richards - I've come to respect the consistency with which you
advocate your views, though I often disagree with you. You are normally
thoughtful and respectful.Which is why your statement "Someone
who "feels" that God gave him/her the wrong sex is homosexual" left
me gobsmacked. That statement is simply not factual.You're
talking about gender identity, a person's sense of him/herself as male or
female. Gender identity usually but not always matches biological gender. A
person whose biological gender and gender identity are nonconforming might
choose to identify as transgender. Gender identity is separate from sexual
orientation. Sexual orientation is about attraction and
relationships. Being attracted to members of the other sex is heterosexual.
Being attracted to members of both sexes is bisexual. Being attracted to members
of one's own sex is homosexual. Gay persons are attracted to and build
romantic and relationships with persons of the same gender. Throughout all of
history, in every known culture, there are have been persons who are homosexual.
Finally, as a Christian I believe all persons are made in
God's image and deserve love, respect, dignity and the opportunity to build
emotionally fulfilling intimate relationships.
So Mike, since religion is a choice based purely on feelings, it has no place in
the Constitution.Freedom of religion does not mean- free for you to impose
your "feelings" on others by law.Your proclamation has no
bearing in law, nor should it.Show me where in the constitution
where It says that the religious majority can impose it's doctrine thru
laws based on denigrating other citizens?
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