Comments about ‘Letter: Deserving insurance’

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Published: Tuesday, Jan. 7 2014 12:00 a.m. MST

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Thid Barker
Victor, ID

Kim, do you even care that 6.2 million Americans lost their current healthcare insurance that they paid for and now must pay higher premiums, higher co-pays and higher deductibles for less coverage so you can get subsidized coverage? Do these people "deserve" that? I am glad you got coverage but at what burden to others that you feel you deserve? You should at least be grateful and thank your neighbors for what they have been forced to provide for what you think you deserve! There really is no such thing as something for nothing and what you believe you deserve must come from people who didn't "deserve" what they are getting! Next round of cancelled plans will happen this year when employers will be forced to choose whether to pay more for their employee's healthcare insurance or turn them over to Obamacare, which according to you is what they "deserve".

Kimber
Salt Lake City, UT

To Thid Barker:
You must be one that hasn't studied the true case of health insurance loss. The people that lost plans had plans which needed upgraded so that they would meet the fair standard of coverage. They were also given the chance to either keep them for a year, or look for something better on the Marketplace. These people would have become like me and the millions that didn't have coverage at all. This is an example of how this needs studied out (I know it's hard when the information isn't readily available). Good luck to you if you are one of them!

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

@ Thid: You need to update your stats, dude. Those numbers have been proven to be bogus. And how do those supposed 6.2 million compare to the real 44 million that have had no insurance (such as this author) and the 38 million that had inadequate coverage (of whom your supposed 6.2 million would have been a part)?

GZE
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Third Barker says, 6.2 million Americans lost their current healthcare insurance that they paid for and now must pay higher premiums, higher co-pays and higher deductibles

Please post your sources; I don't believe it.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Everyone deserves the right to pay a reasonable cost for a health plan and get it regardless of their prior health. A single payer system would achieve this nicely, and at a lower overall cost.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Several of my family members were in the same position as the letter writer. They are all pleased and relieved with their new insurance. Before that, they lived in fear. Yes, the rest of us may have to bear a little heavier burden as a result. I for one am glad to bear it. Those who protest it are selfish.

Thid Barker
Victor, ID

Where have you people been saying millions of Americans have not lost their healthcare insurance because of Obamacare? Did you miss Obama's apology? Have you been asleep? Its been all over the news! Go back to sleep and dream of your 'free' healthcare! Its impossible to have a discussion with people who have no clue or refuse to accept things as they are. Letters and phone calls have been pouring into congressmen and women from their constituents complaining about millions of cancelled policies, higher premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays because of Obamacare! This according to them, not me! Wake up!

EDM
Castle Valley, Utah

Kim,

Pay no attention to the numerous folks who will likely tell you (in whatever terms) that if you were a more responsible, hard-working person you would have had health insurance all along. And now that you do, our great nation will crumble.

As for me, I'd like to say Good for you! I appreciatied reading your personal story.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

@ Thid: Yes, many people who had income replacement plans (aka inadequate insurance that doesn't actually cover medical expenses - you will see they are included in the numbers in my first post) have been told they need actual, real medical insurance - and yes, actual, real insurance costs more than income replacement - but it also covers more and offers real protection. Again, this number was covered in my first post.

However, it is nowhere near 6.2 million and they can still keep their income replacement plan if they want to - insurance companies must now tell them the truth about what it is and what it covers upfront without hiding the limitations in fancy fast speak.

And the real numbers for those who have list coverage entirely are closer to 10,000. Where have you been?

And you have not yet answered my question of how your 6.2 million (less than 1% of the US population) compares to the 44 million without insurance and the 38 million with inadequate insurance (together more than 10% of the US population).

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

Yes, I agree that we should pay a reasonable price for insurance. However, the ACA has done nothing to lower insurance costs or improve care.

The average increase across the US has been 43%, due directly to the ACA. When you combine that with the way most insurance policies have cut benefits to bare minimum because of regulations, it does not get any better.

Why do you liberals continue to support a bill that has increased insurance costs, cut benefits, encourages people to mooch off their parents or the government, and will add to the deficit?

Kimber
Salt Lake City, UT

Please share where you get your statistics "Redshirt"...please provide them. I was a past insurance worker and the rates would go up every year long before we had the ACA. The hope is that this will stabilize these costs. I think many people get their information from people that simply don't like the program (because it was instigated by Democrats). I believe much of the information they received are only half truths (or not true at all)

2 bit
Cottonwood Heights, UT

RE: "Everyone deserves the right to pay a reasonable cost for a health plan and get it regardless of their prior health"...

But you DON'T have the right to not carry insurance UNTIL you get a dreaded diagnosis and THEN go to the insurance company and say "Pay all my expenses".

The rights of both need to be considered here (not just yours).

The way insurance works is... you pay premiums all your life... not just AFTER you have an expensive illness.

You pay premiums all your life (sick or not), and probably pay more some years than you use in benefits (those years part of your premiums goes to pay for somebody else who's having a bad year). And the theory is that in the years when YOU need it... there will be people paying their premiums so YOU can have your huge expenses paid out of what you paid in previous years and through the premiums others are paying (but not using every dollar they put in).

When you wait till you are sick and THEN come to the insurance company and demand they pay all your expenses....

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

... When you wait till you are sick and THEN come to the insurance company and demand they pay your expenses... (when you haven't paid them a single premium)... it breaks.

It was already illegal in the United States for insurance companies to turn you down for pre-existing conditions IF you were coming from another insurance plan (COBRA laws, been around for decades).

But it is not illegal for them to reject you if you have not been participating in ANY insurance and just pocketing the premiums until you have a crash, find out about new problem, or decide you want them to pay all your expenses for an existing problem.

This insures you pay into the system for some time... you can't just come in with your known expenses which they know you will never pay for even if you pay premiums the rest of your life. And you can still drop them and stop paying premiums they day you leave the hospital.

Basically you want everything to protect you... but NOTHING to protect the insurer.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Insurance is a wager that you make betting a certain thing will happen. The insurance company is your bookie and is betting that the event wont happen.

In the case of health care, you are betting you will get sick and the insurance company will pay a greater amount than the amount you paid in premiums. You win the bet if you get sick.

If you don't get sick, the insurance company doesn't pay out anything and the premiums you paid are all theirs in profit. The insurance company wins if you don't get sick.

By carefully studying the statistics of illness, the odds, of people getting sick, the insurance company sets the premium rate at such a point that they always have some money left over after paying for the sick costs for every one in their betting universe.

Privately owned insurance companies have varying levels of honesty and capability of figuring the odds. They can manipulate the odds by including or excluding various factors and conditions.

The best insurance would be a single insurance company that takes all people and pays all expenses without conditions.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

@thid
"do you even care that 6.2 million Americans lost their current healthcare insurance that they paid for and now must pay higher premiums, higher co-pays and higher deductibles for less coverage so you can get subsidized coverage?"

I might care if that were even true but the vast majority of those who lost their current insurance either can get a similar plan on the exchange for similar plan, or their plan was one of those junk policies so they would have higher premiums... but they'd have more coverage, not less.

Do you even care that 5 million Americans in mostly red states have been denied the Medicaid expansion thanks to their Governors not wanting to take something that's 100% paid for by the federal gov't the first three years?

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Ultra Bob,
It's a wager, but it's not a blind wager. It's a calculated wager (at least for the insurer). They employ many Actuarial people to determine the odds of certain things happening. To make sure they are charging enough to pay for those things when they eventually happen. And according to the law of averages... they will be over sometimes and under sometimes, but on the average it will work out.

They also make sure they charge enough to pay the employees, build and heat their offices, pay for office equipment, retirement for their employees, etc. If that's evil... I guess they are evil.

---

A single insurance company would only be the best option IF all people were required to participate.

THEN and only then it would work. Because if you can get insurance AFTER you become sick... only sick people would participate. Without healthy people paying into the system... it goes bankrupt pretty quick.

Only when healthy people pay into the system as well... can the real expenses be covered (without just borrowing more and more money from China). And that's the rub.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

What constitutes "full insurance"? Are we to believe Obama when he tells us that unless we have pregnancy coverage when we are in our 60s that we are not properly covered? Are we to believe Obama when he tells us that we must buy a policy that covers children when all of our children are married, over the age of 29 and on their own? Are we to believe Obama when he promised us that our family would save $2,500 per year, that we could keep our existing policy and that we could keep our existing doctors when, in actuality, our premiums have almost doubled, when our out-of-pocket has increased to $7,000 before the insurance company pays a nickel, when we can't keep our old policy, when we can't keep our old doctors?

Those who tell us that they could not get insurance are "forgetting" to tell us that they could buy insurance but that they wanted someone else to pay part of their premiums. There are those in our family who had minor birth defects, meaning that they had to buy health insurance from the State. They were covered without subsidy.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Re: "If you don't get sick, the insurance company doesn't pay out anything and the premiums you paid are all theirs in profit"... (Ultra Bob)

That is not true. If you don't get sick, that money goes to pay OTHER subscriber's benefits. What is left over after paying EVERYBODY's benefits (not just yours)... is profit. That's how insurance works.

If they only used YOUR premiums to pay YOUR claims... you might as well just pay your own expenses, because your premiums would have to be calculated to cover 100% of your claims. Insurance only works because most people don't use everything they put in... so the premiums can be accumulated from the numerous people who aren't sick today to pay the benefits of those who are. Without that it doesn't work.

And is there any problem with them making a profit from providing this security? I mean they are taking a risk. We KNOW how much we will pay (fixed premiums). They don't KNOW how much they will end up paying out in benefits. Their expenses are open ended... ours are fixed. That's why we buy insurance (risk).

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Ultra Bob" actually the worst insurance company would be a single payer system. Just look at the corruption in the single payer system that the elderly and handicap rely on. Medicare not only denies more claims than private insurance companies do, but they also lose twice as much money to fraud and waste than the private companies while insuring half as many people.

The best insurance would be a system that is al-a-carte, where you decide what you need coverage for, and only pay for what you want. To keep prices down and efficiency up, you would have to have multiple companies competing for your business.

What you want is what resulted in the NHS in England, and the disasters that are single payer systems throughout the world.

Kimber
Salt Lake City, UT

A person usually can't wait until he or she gets sick to buy into it. There are usually "open enrollment" times when a person can sign up and this is also the case with the ACA. Since it just begun and people are learning, a person can sign up until March 31st. But going forward, a person has to go by the December date to be signed up for January 1st. There are also other "life events" that allow a person to get on insurance (losing coverage elsewhere for various reasons). In most cases, a person can't just wait to get on insurance because they get sick.

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