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New A.G. says Utah gay couples who recently married are in 'legal limbo'

Published: Monday, Jan. 6 2014 10:10 a.m. MST

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Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Steven S Jarvis: "I believe only one state allows first cousins to marry, and that is only after they reach the age of 65 or older."

Actually, half the states allow first cousin marriage, including Utah. Utah is among those that require first cousin couples to be infertile (age), but many do not.

IMAPatriot2: "How about where this "federal" dollars came from?"

Utah, like many "red" states is a net importer of federal tax dollars taken predominantly from citizens of the "blue" states. Those New York and Taxachusetts liberals are subsidizing the state.

Meckofahess: "Democratic California Gov. Jerry Brown signed a new law into effect on Monday afternoon affording students confused about their 'gender identity' a host of new rights..."

You bring this up repeatedly as if it is self-evident, but you have never demonstrated the alleged harm. Many of us see it as a positive development that will benefit the lives of transgender youth and reduce suicides and homicides.

wwookie
Payson, UT

Eliminate marriage laws all together. Just get better estate transfer laws that allow you to indicate in a will who is your heir.

What else do the silly lgbt activists claim? That they're not allowed to be happy? In half the cases, marriage actually reduces happiness, so in reality, you are being protected from making yourself unhappy by not being allowed to wed.

I wish everyone would just tell the truth. Lgbt crowd state that you have an inferiority complex and opponents state you are scared of lgbt people. I love all of you, but the arguments are so silly. We should really be more worried by the federal government overstepping its bounds. There will come a time when you will be on the other side of a federal case and cry that states rights overrule federal laws (Mary Jane knows what I'm talking about.)

Utah Soldier
Bountiful, UT

I am pleasantly surprised at this ruling.

To those who say that Shelby couldn't have issue a stay on his ruling cause he wasn't asked are forgetting that he was asked to stay his ruling and he didn't. The lack of stay at that time is what is causing the legal limbo for SSM given the current stay.

Are there any states in the jurisdiction of the 10th circuit that also have state constitutions that prohibit SSM? If so, I would expect that they will file Amacus (sp?) briefs supporting Utah's cause. Nevertheless, this issue will go to the SCOTUS as whichever the 10th circuit rules, that ruling will be appealed. Once this hits SCOTUS, the many states whose constitutions prohibit SSM will support Utah in its case as the case will not only affect SSM, but also the 10th Ammendment to the Constitution which gives the states all rights and powers not listed in the US Constitution.

That shall make for an interesting day in SCOTUS history.

Jim
Mesa, Az

This is the greatest country on earth, and irrespective of the outcome, this democracy in action. This what people fought and died for. Hopefully, the emotions and rhetoric, won't interfere with decisions. Hopefully the judges will make their decision based on the evidence and argument presented, and not the tissues and tears.

I know it. I Live it. I Love it.
Provo, UT

I have tried to put this into words to prove myself, to show others what I understand from my own experiences. No matter how much I try, I cannot.

The only thing I have to offer is that I do not hate anyone. I can't prove my principles sound, my beliefs fair or my understanding true. Perhaps all men are bound be the same inability. I figure it's more important to treat people well, love and serve each other. To teach and learn how to be better and truly happy.

I know what has helped me to do that. Returning to my bishop, a man with an extraordinary love for others, returning to the scriptures, and kneeling day and night to return to my Heavenly Father. These things have brought something into my life that no opinion, argument, or political victory ever can. I'm happy. I've returned to the temple. I couldn't remove the requirements, I couldn't remove temptations, but I removed some of my choices. And I'm so happy I did it!

I extend the invitation to return. There is so much waiting for those who do. It's indescribable.

desert
Potsdam, 00

The laws of the land are becoming unstable,
our views to personal rights are focused on selfishness,
contentions among us spread out to include fundamental issues,
that have never been questioned before.

What is going on here ? Are we just not of the same opinion ? Or what ?

The LGBT community is dishonest ! Rights are in question, Yes. But their intentions go far further into changing society to a more non-religious and less-legal ground to stand on.
That might be their long term goal, but why don't they say so, instead of using the marriage issue as tool to fit their intent ? They want much more than just get married !

In Utah the majority of people would never question the rights of others to be Atheists or to represent any other Modern Philosophy.

But stepping into their sacred home with trampling their peace, is just one step ahead of a secret combination, that they will not like or tolerate.

Go study on it, and you will understand why Utah wants this Appeal to go right.
It is not about the Now and Today, it is about the consequences of our way of life !

Vanceone
Provo, UT

Let us consider the Polygamy cases in the 1800's. After the 14th Amendment, thousands of legally married people in the territory of Utah were arrested, thrown in jail, etc for violating the marriage laws. The Supreme Court.... came down on the side of throwing people in jail. Polygamy was not allowed. In fact, in Idaho, Mormons as a class were stripped of their right to vote, regardless of whether they practiced polygamy or not. The Supreme Court upheld that action 9-0.

All of that was legal under the 14th Amendment. If existing polygamous marriages could be ended, why should SSM be allowed? If people could be thrown in jail for breaking the 1 man 1 woman law, why should SSM be exempt? To this day--if you have one man and 2 women, you can and will go to jail (except in Utah, thanks to another federal judge). Why should gays get an exemption? Why should they be granted more rights than straight people? Or explain why 2 men is okay but 3 men is not.

Willem
Los Angeles, CA

"If you want to make a change do it the right way and get it on the ballot again".

Wow did i get to vote on your marriage?

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

Those who oppose SSM see the stay by the SCOTUS as a victory to their pursue of bigotry and discrimination against homosexuality.

Father, mother, brother, sister, cousin, uncle, niece , nephew, grandparent, let me tell you that we are still part of you, we share your blood, most of your culture and we still love you. We are homosexuals and we want a life of commitment and monogamy just like you. Yet, you insult us with your promiscuity comparing our feelings to bestiality, polygamy, incest and whatever other perversity comes to your mind.

The SCOTUS have declared a stay. Does it mean it agrees with your bigotry? No! Does it mean it agrees with SSM marriage? No! it just means the SCOTUS will take Judge Shelby's ruling and listen to the appeal and decide on the evidence.

Let's wait and see what the interpreters of the U.S. Constitution have to say. We as good American citizens will listen and accept the dictates of the American constitution. If we don't agree with the results we can use our check and balance system and change the constitution if deem necessary.

Peace and love to all.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

I did not make homosexual sex incapable of producing children. God did that.

Those who wish to call the contractual union of two same sex people a marriage are barking up the wrong tree. Your fellow man can't fix this. Expecting him/her to is outrageous. This is God's call. I see no reason why I should try to undo what God has done.

And yes, even though God saw fit to discriminate in this way, I still have the right, in this country, to exercise my religion and worship Him as I see fit. It is called the First Amendment.

FT
salt lake city, UT

I know it, I live it, I love it.
Good for you but for others we have found true, eternal happiness without it. Respect this and defend our rights, just as others have for you.

Vince here
San Diego, CA

Let's talk about preserving real family values.

Let's talk about stopping the insane practice of kicking out LGBT youth in Utah, the likes of which is shameful.

5000 youth experiencing homelessness in Utah and people instead take to "preserving traditional marriage." Get over yourselves already and start living the edicts from Moses 7.

Let's talk about the real preservation of the family unit - so that depression is not rampant throughout the state.

Let's talk about why, despite doctrinal teachings, Utah's divorce rate does not fare better than the nation's.

That would be more practical than people cheering when others lose rights enjoyed by others.

Ximena
Provo, UT

Looking at the LDS Articles of Faith, lessons can be learned about respect for one's country's and state's laws. Number 11 says that We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. And, Number 12 says that We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. I like allow all men the same privilege, and being subject, obeying, honoring and sustaining the law. Perhaps it is time to follow this ... obey, honor and sustain the law as well as allow all the right to worship according to their own dictates. The LDS moved to another country, Mexico (Utah) in order to continue their practice of polygamy (an unusual choice of marriage) - perhaps it's time to move again to another country? If the U.S. and/or State of Utah judicially allows same-sex marriage as law, perhaps it's time to obey, honor, and sustain the law.

Karen R.
Houston, TX

Disappointed, but not surprised. I couldn't shake a slight uneasy feeling at the lower courts' refusal to grant a stay. This is a big issue in the country, and things were happening awfully fast. The right to gay marriage across the land IS coming, but people currently opposed to it need more time to wrap their minds around it. Hang in there my LGBT family members, friends, and fellow citizens. It's coming...

choosehappiness
Concord, NH

Very, very good news… I'm so grateful for our Supreme Court's decision concerning this matter.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

"The LGBT community is dishonest ! Rights are in question, Yes. But their intentions go far further into changing society to a more non-religious and less-legal ground to stand on. That might be their long term goal, but why don't they say so, instead of using the marriage issue as tool to fit their intent ? They want much more than just get married !"

So all gay people are dishonest, atheistic, against the rule of law, and have an agenda of anarchy. Wow…. you have really opened peoples eyes… not to the LGBT agenda…. but to something else. I would not debate there are some who are reflective of this gross stereotype…. but I would say that it is exactly that.

Just as inferring from the headlines we read after BYU-Utah football games of boorish behavior by fans - I would hardly castigate all Utah or BYU fans as against the rule of law as evidenced by the actions of a subgroup of their fans. But somehow I think you have made up your mind that all "LGBT" people are a despicable crowd… and for that I feel sorry for you.

airnaut
Everett, 00

Avenue
Vernal, UT
The ability to make laws regarding marriage and divorce are reserved by state governments, so Shelby shouldn't have been able to make the ruling anyway.

6:05 p.m. Jan. 6, 2014

==========

If you got married in California 22 years ago, is your marriage recognized in Vernal, Utah?
If you got married in Utah, moved and got divorced in Iowa, is that divorced recognized in Utah?

This is were inter-State recognition of State laws at the Federal level [Constitution] comes into play.

BTW -- One other example.
If you got married in Sweden or Japan, is that marriage recognized in Vernal, Utah?

You see -- you must look outside of the little knock-hole Utah Bubble to see the world as it really is.

VST
Bountiful, UT

wwookee,

Contrary to what you stated, the Supreme Court did NOT allow a federal court to overturn California’s Proposition 8. What the Supreme Court did was properly declare those who were appealing the decision of the California Supreme Court (not the federal court) did not have “legal standing” before the Supreme Court. What that means is the State of California (who was the agent that properly held legal standing before the U.S. Supreme Court) did NOT appeal the decision of the California Supreme Court. Translation: The Supreme Court refused to hear the Proposition 8 case because the organizations/individuals filing the appeal had no legal basis to appeal to the Supreme Court.

Utah’s Amendment 3 case is an entirely different situation. It is the State of Utah that is appealing the decision of U.S. District Court Judge Shelby, which DOES have legal standing before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

Even if the courts say that gay marriage is legal, the state can always copy Colorado and ignore federal law. Since states are allowed to pick and choose what Federal laws to obey, Utah could simply say that it doesn't care what the Federal law says. What is there to prevent Utah from enforcing all federal laws? There is alread the precedent showing us that federal laws can be ignored.

J. S.
Houston, TX

@Meckofahess

sid 6.7 asked about example of the harm caused by same-sex marriage laws, and you replied by bringing up a different issue, transgender students, what is your point?

@dwayne, thank you for clearing up the fact that David Parker was arrested because of committing a crime of trespassing.

@John Locke

Please read the posts in Page 3 by Mcbillary 1:26 pm and J.S. 2:19 pm.

Summary: Utah state did not get stay because AG legal team made unbelievable mistakes that only first year law student would make. They did not follow the procedural rule to request stay BEFORE the ruling came down. And later they did not follow the procedural rule to request stay from Judge Shelby first, but instead surpassed him and directly asked the 10th circuit.

Even attorneys from conservative corner think AG's team did a terrible job. If you want to blame anyone, blame those state attorneys who collected paychecks from taxpayers but failed to perform.

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