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Comments about ‘Michael and Jenet Erickson: Being for traditional marriage does not mean being against anyone’

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Published: Sunday, Jan. 5 2014 12:00 a.m. MST

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dwayne
Provo, UT

"Utahns have shown in word and deed that you do not have to be against anyone to affirm the purpose of marriage; to unite children with the man and woman who made them"

The purpose of marriage isnt to unite children with the man and woman who made them for several reasons. First, marriage should and most frequently does occur before children become involved, if at all. Second, the purpose of marriage isnt procreation nor is the sexual act debased to the bearing of children. It serves a much higher and noble purpose. The expression of love and an intimate bond between two people who have joined together. An expression that is only a small part of that bond. It isnt the substance nor end of that relationship. Its the human need to have someone. One doesnt sit at home singly thinking "I want children to spend my life with" instead they long for that someone to spend life with. Third, legal marriage recognizes the legal commitment of two people by a contract. Children/dogs/houses are a result of that intimate relationship and not party to it.

Schnee
Salt Lake City, UT

Being for opposite-sex marriages doesn't involve being against anyone... but being against same-sex marriages does involve being against someone.

dwayne
Provo, UT

Sadness for what it means to redefine — to change — the meaning of marriage from its transcendent roots across cultures and time as the union of complementary halves — the Biblical “one flesh” — to a fundamentally genderless institution.

This comment is vulgar, obscene and demeaning. Lets be honest about their real statement here and what it truly means because if we do not call it what it is then we ignore the fundamentally sick thinking that it derives from. Its predicated on the idea that its not love that makes two people complementary halves but their gender. Those who make marriage about gender are saying "its about sex and babies. It doesnt matter who people love. If you love a man and are a man stop loving him, go find yourself a woman, have sex with her and make babies."

They talk a lot about sadness. What do they really find sad? That my son may fall in love with a man and not have sex with a woman he doesn't love? That love is not contingent on sex or on those who love one another having children but instead on an intimate bond, sex being only one component.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Instead of experiencing sadness, you should be happy. A whole bunch of people made a commitment to marriage in the last week and a half. And individual rights and freedoms have been strengthened. This is a great time for Utah.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

Comments about ‘Being for traditional marriage does not mean being against anyone’

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What are people supposed to believe when the main argument against gay marriage is that allowing gay marriage would hurt traditional marriages? The two aren't correlated, and people intelligent enough to see this are consequently led to believe there is some other hidden agenda.

Gay marriage is only for people who are wired differently. The institution of traditional marriage doesn't suit them. The reality of nature is that some people are homosexual. I wish it weren't so, but this is the reality.

All this said, children ought to have a mother and a father. Gay marriage if it ever becomes allowed permanently ought not mean that children who otherwise could have had a mother and a father become stuck with two mothers or two fathers instead.

Civil unions with all the rights of marriage other than the right to adopt children who otherwise would have a chance to have a mother and a father would seem to be in order.

toosmartforyou
Farmington, UT

This reminds me of when women didn't want to be called "Miss" or some feminists didn't want to be called "Mrs" so suddenly every woman, regardless of age or marital status, was "Ms." Just because a woman is married and prefers to be called "Mrs" is no reason for those who aren't to feel uncomfortable being called "Miss." They think being called Miss will openly attract men in whom they have zero interest. News: If a man finds you attractive and he is the sort to pursue possibilities, it won't matter if either you or he are married or what you are called; he will behave that way towards you.

For those with same-sex attraction, that want to live together in a committed relationship, go for it. I hope you are happy and feel fulfilled. You deserve every legal protection and advantage the law allows anyone else. But you are not "husband and husband" or "wife and wife" and certainly not "husband and wife." Perhaps you could use another term for sharing your life together other than "married." That is more of your hang-up than your previous legal status.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

The "Biblical tradition" of marriage includes multiple wives and concubines.

We don't force single parents to marry, we don't prohibit parents the right to divorce, we don't set income or educational restrictions in the ability to have and raise children - nor do we have laws controlling against many of the other things we know are more riskful situations for raising children. Why worry about this one that _might_ be a problem while ignoring those we have firm evidence _are_ problems?

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

How can someone who thinks marriage should not exist at all be considered an "advocate" of marriage and why only focus on homosexuals who think marriage should not exist when there are many heterosexuals who feel the same way?

Public accommodation laws are very clear - if you serve the public, you must serve the entirety of the public. Business owners should not be allowed to use religion as an excuse to discriminate. Otherwise - as history has shown us, not as some fabricated slippery slope scar tactic - it progresses from not providing a cake to not providing food at all, from not providing a bed to not providing housing at all, from not providing elective medical care to providing no medical care. There are already those in Utah who freely admit they should not have to work with or hire gay people nor allow them to live in certain neighborhoods or apartment complexes.

There is something special about marriage - which is why so many gay couples want it.

And nothing in this editorial addresses why it should be denied them when it is not denied to others based on the exact same reasoning presented.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

When you spend $2 million dollars against it, fine.

When the governor forces me to spend $2 million of my tax dollars against my own interests…

yes, you are 'against me'.

When you force me to pay higher taxes, and get less benefits, because of who I love.

*'Gay Americans pay more taxes for fewer rights' - By Suze Orman – CNN – 02/25/13

'We all have 83-year-old Edith Windsor to thank for in pushing the issue of same-sex marriage equality on to the national front. Edie and her partner Thea were together for 40 years. How many marriages do you know that have lasted that long? But when Thea died in 2009, Edie was hit with a $363,000 federal estate tax bill because as a same-sex couple they were not eligible for the unlimited marital deduction.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

This same 'ho hum I'm not TARGETING' anyone claim has been disproven over and over again…

*'Kept From a Dying Partners Bedside' - By TARA PARKER-POPE - NY Times - 05/18/09

'...the couples had prepared for a medical emergency, creating living wills, advanced directives and power-of-attorney documents.'

And yet, even with Living Will, Medical Directive, Power of attorney and emergency contact information...

Janice Langbehn was kept from the bedside of her dying partner, Lisa Pond.

They were together for 18 years.

Working against marriage equality has factual victims. LGBT Americans who want nothing more than to live their lives.

Do not fool yourself otherwise.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

"Contrary to popular portrayals, supporters of traditional marriage are not the angry, hate-filled bigots they have been stereotyped to be."

And yet the Deseret News prominently publishes the story of the gathering in Highland ("Former Arizona sheriff blasts ruling that allows gay marriage in Utah") that makes it clear just how angry, hated-filled and bigoted a sizable element of the anti-marriage equality movement really is.

What is also perfectly clear is that opposition to respecting the equal rights of homosexual citizens derives exclusively from the hostility of religious fundamentalists towards homosexuals.

We do not live in a theocracy. Our nation is a constitutionally constrained republic in which the rights of a minority are not subject to majority vote. And because of that fact, Utah's Amendment 3 has rightly been found, through extensive legal review and due process, to be invalid.

The rights, marriages and children of heterosexual couples are not in the smallest way harmed by marriage equality, while denying same-sex couples the right to marriage does real harm. Those are the established facts.

Your personal religious convictions do not trump the 14th Amendment, no matter how much sugar-coating you apply to your arguments.

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell~

Let the "tolerant people" begin bashing the truth of this article (and then proceed to claim that they are victims because they are seen as being the real voices of hate)

RG
Buena Vista, VA

Very, very well said!

Saguaro
Scottsdale, AZ

Once again, financial issues are conveniently ignored. Of course supporters of "traditional" marriage favor paying less tax because same-sex couples must pay more -- half a million dollars more, in the Windsor case. Of course they are in favor of collecting more Social Security benefits because LGBT survivors, including children, collect nothing. Of course they favor increased veterans benefits for some, because spouses killed in action serving their country are denied anything for their life partners -- at least if they did not formalize the relationship in a state that recognizes unfairness.

Those states, however, are where 38% of Americans reside. Same-sex marriage is not just a financial issue, but those who are unwilling to address financial inequality should no longer be permitted to ignore it. Opposition to same-sex marriage may not mean being against anyone, but it does mean taking money out of their pockets.

The Last Word
South Jordan, UT

Wonderful article that's honest and represents the majority of traditional marriage supporters in this state.

Candide
Salt Lake City, UT

I am for traditional marriage too, but I am also for gay marriage. Why can't I have my family just as you have yours? I am not trying to stop anyone from having a traditional marriage. So why are you trying to stop me from marrying the one I love? Gay marriage doesn't subtract anything from traditional marriage, it only adds more happy stable families.

Robert Johnson
Sunland, CA

I'm sorry...but you are wrong. You can "believe what you want to believe", certainly. But you can also do so without trampling on the rights of others. Not believing in marriage equality doesn't make a person a bigot, however, actively opposing it does. Bigotry is believing that you have a right to something while denying it to others. No one is saying that you have to embrace marriage equality. You as an American have the right to personally accept it or not, but what you don't have a right to do is to deny your fellow Americans their right to marry the person that they love.

Physics27
Cedar City, UT

This pretty much sums up how I feel about the issue. Great article.

KJB1
Eugene, OR

Nice try, but bigotry is still bigotry. Put a nice face on it and you're still denying other consenting adults rights that you get to take for granted and for no substantive reason.

"Traditional marriage" isn't a finite thing. Extending it to gay couples doesn't mean that there's less of it for you.

Church member
North Salt Lake, UT

Get over it. Gay marriage is happening in our country. You have lost, the other side has won. Our civilization is not going to crumble now because of this. Find a way to move past this issue and go make the world a better place.

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