I thought we needed to separate politics from religion?At least,
that's what the pro-mitt camp was telling us when anybody brought up his
religion. Now that we're not talking about Mitt, it's all
fair game to question and talk about Obama's religion. What
Obama does not attend church because he believes the false hype that he "is
the ONE we have been waiting for." In short, he worships
Obviously, Prees. Obama doesn't want to inconvenience the other
church-goers with the massive secret service presence that church attendance
entails for a President's family. I imagine that it is quite intrusive.
No big deal on a golf course, and a real problem if the other church attendees
must be screened.
There’s nothing particularly commendable about being a regular churchgoer.
There's nothing bad about it either. People attend church for reasons that
might be sincere or false. They may be among the whited sepulchers Jesus spoke
against or among the pure in heart whom he promised would see God. It’s
both kind and prudent to not make stereotypical assumptions about people who go
to church....or about those who don’t.
Good for Obama. Not faking religious inclination for the point of political
gain is noteworthy.
@mcdugallMurray, UTWhy quote The Blaze and Breitbart?Only reason I can think of is you can find what the Main Stream is not saying
and it is the truth. Whats left NBC who routinely doctors the news?
sharrona,"....Jesus did not call his disciples to be secret
instructed his followers to not make his identity known to others. He cautioned
them to be discreet, reminding them to be like sheep among wolves. He focused
his message on how we humans should behave to each other.Along came
Paul who felt free of restraint in putting his own spin on Jesus. Christianity
would soon begin projecting Paul onto Jesus rather than vice versa. The simple
integrity of Jesus got lost by the rising Church. We still struggle to get it
First, the numbers are within the normal range. 4 out of 10 attending church in
the last week... it reflects the attendance in my (typical) LDS ward, and the
rest of the country over the last 50 years. Second, meeting
attendance in not necessarily a reflection of religiosity. There are differences
in attitudes towards attendance/non-attendance between various faiths. Mormons
and Jehovah's Witnesses are big on meetings, Catholics are a bit easier
going. Church attendance declined most after the advent of T.V. broadcasts of
sporting events on Sunday.
@SCfan"The Democrats became the money controllers of government
starting in 2007, Pelosi and Reid holding the purse strings."You
don't get a crashed economy just because Democrats increased gov't
research spending and other little differences in budgetary policy. "First it was the result of the unregulated housing market that allowed
many unqualified people to buy when they couldn't afford. "And the unregulated banking sector which is largely connected to that housing
market. Now... which party is the one that likes having as few regulations as
possible on such entities?
LDSareChristiansHow in the world would you know how many times Mitt
Romney attended church? And why would you or anybody else care? What business is
it of anybody but him? Should we speculate if he goes to all 3 hours of church,
or if he travels on sundays or breaks the word of wisdom too? People need to
find something else to occupy their time then worry about the amount of times
somebody else went to church.
Mike RichardsHe probably likes golf much more then church. Can you
blame him? So do I and many others. Shouldn't come as a surprise to you.
Nobody is required to go. I'll think of you when I'm out on the
@SCfan – “… the economy under Bush from 2001 to 2008 was doing
pretty well. Other than a relatively stagnant stock market and
exploding debt… employment rate was good though.@SCfan -
“What caused the big downturn of 2008?... unregulated housing market that
allowed many unqualified people to buy when they couldn't afford.”This is the standard Fox talking point but does nothing to explain why
the downturn was global.The major reason for the downturn is
Republican policies (and their cumulative, growing effect) over the last few
decades of deregulating Wall Street such that banks, by 2008, were run like
casinos. I would suggest the following reading list to help fill in
some of the gaps in your view:The Myth of the Rational MarketZombie EconomicsEconnedThe QuantsThe Big ShortGriftopiaBailout NationSlapped by the Invisible HandFreefallHouse of CardsToo Big to FailAnd Alan
Greenspan’s latest book, if only for his recommendation that we need to
drastically increase the capital requirements of investment banks (since they
will always by three steps ahead of regulators).
ute alumni,In fact, I'd add that Mitt probably missed church
less than 18 times in 5 years. JoeBlow, your comment is irrelevant,
Mitt wouldn't attended church on Christmas day anyway, unless
Christmas fell on a Sunday. As Kalinda point out, LDS don't hold Christmas
day services unless it falls on Sunday. The Sunday prior, is a Christmas program
however. To compare apples to apples, we'd need to know if Mitt attended
the Sunday prior to Christmas or not.
atl134I don't think it is a coincidence that the economy under
Bush from 2001 to 2008 was doing pretty well. What caused the big downturn of
2008? In my view two things. First it was the result of the unregulated
housing market that allowed many unqualified people to buy when they
couldn't afford. That policy was begun prior to Bush with Clinton.
Second. The Democrats became the money controllers of government starting in
2007, Pelosi and Reid holding the purse strings. Coupled with Obama becoming
President in 2009, the Democrats have had much more influence and control than
the Republicans during these last 7 years. As for job growth. Most of those
jobs are not what one would call career type jobs. Most are low wage, keeping
food on the table and rent paid jobs. Not the place we want our economy to be.
And unemployment is still around 7%. I won't mention the ones who have
quit looking for work.
"The Blaze and Breitbart are newsworthy sources that I look at and trust
every day. Why not quote them?" They are "newsworthy" sources --
meaning they are the subject of real news stories. Usually for providing
non-credible "news." Real news sources are not "newsworthy."Confirmation bias is the #1 problem with news media today. With this
"story" the DNews comes close, along with the Blaze, to becoming part of
the problem. This story (electronic as it is) is easily updated to include the
information about Reagan, or especially a comment about Romney not ever
attending a non-Sunday Christmas meeting. But go ahead and keep confirming your
Ronald Reagan had a similar track record you may recall. When a reporter
criticized him for it, he pointed out that it was not a simple matter for a
sitting President to drop by for Church services. He noted that his presence
created a great deal of inconvenience for others.
Science has already convinced most of those on the right side (downslope) of the
bell curve that religion is false (if not totally, then at least in explaining
the objective world). Now the job is to convince the public that not only is
religion & morality NOT synonymous, but that in fact religion long ago
hijacked morality and taught at least 100 generations that “without God
all things are permissible” – often and ironically, while torturing
& burning many who felt otherwise.When this day comes the issue
of separation of church & state will be largely moot because the churches
will be mostly empty. And if this terrifies you, you can find great
comfort in simply looking at the countries where this is already the reality
– Norway, Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Australia, France, Japan, New
@SCfan"If you think the country is better off than it was before
Obama, you are in the minority according to all polls."The
economy was in freefall in late 2008... I'll take our slow and steady
economic recovery (we've gained private sector jobs 46 months in a row)
It is great to see that only a mere 40% of those polled attend church regularly.
That is great news for this country. As the flock dwindles so will the money
that is used to buy the political influence that undermines the constitution.
@JoeBlow: "Ironic, perhaps?" Racist, hate filled bigotry, perhaps?
I spent much time in 2008 and 2012 convincing others that being a Mormon was not
a disqualifying attribute for a presidential candidate.I see zero
reason to turn around and point to the current president's church
attendance as evidence that he isn't qualified for his office.
TruthseekerCare to name what you think are "credible
sources" from your point of view? I think many of us would find your
sources just as un-credible. If by credible you mean unbiased, then you are
asking for something that is impossible for any single person or organization to
achieve. Everything is seen from a perspective, and that perspective creates a
bias, whether one wants it to or not. If your definition of credible in not as
I conclude, being un-biased, then I'd like to know what parameters you
would use to establish credibility in the media. Thanks.
BaccusIf you think the country is better off than it was before
Obama, you are in the minority according to all polls. And what a family. Same
could have been said of Romneys family as well. As for getting Bin Laden, he
had no choice but to go after Bin Laden when his location was discovered. His
presidency would have been ruined if it was known that he had Bin Laden in his
sights (as Clinton did) and did nothing. Obama had no choice in the matter. As
for the main topic at hand, most Presidents know the logistical problems of
going to a public church. So Romney, had he been president would probably have
held many services in the White House on Sunday, which is easy to do in the LDS
faith. I also believe Romney and family would have attended services at the
National Cathedral, on behalf of the country, on many occasions. But that last
is just my opinion.
Who cares if he doesn't go to church
I agree partially with Mike R. - the part that went "...what do I
RE: Mcdugall, President Obama's faith should be a private matter between he
and his god and should not be a matter of concern for the media?Therefore go and make disciples in all the nations baptizing them into the
name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit(Mt 28:19). What if they
said No?Jesus did not call his disciples to be secret service agents.RE: Mike Richards, I used to think President Obama was a CEO, Christmas
and Easter Only,In regard to church attendance, but apparently not..
Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.
BYUalumSouth Jordan, UTMcDugal: The Blaze and Breitbart
are newsworthy sources that I look at and trust every day. Why not quote
them?.... Well, the fact that they are incendiary, sensationalistic,
and untruthful might be a good reason to quote them with a barrel of salt, lol
This entire article was set up as a cheap shot. Its' only redeeming
quality, however unintentional, is to point out how religion has infected us
with its' self entitled judgementalism. Four out of 10 attend church and
the president is not among them? How about six out of ten have come to their
senses, and the president IS among them?
Another slamming article by the DN, to please the old conservative readers.Any thought of mentioning that it costs, let's guess, over
$150,000, if not double, to secure the family's travels to the church,
keeps the Secret Service away from their families, and disrupts the service for
everyone else.I attended church in Carmel, CA, with President
Eisenhower in 1956. Back then, there were probably 8 agents, and it was no big
deal.Any thought that OTHER Presidents went to church "for
I wonder what the religious lives while in office--of all our former
presidents?That could be an informative and educational article. Did they all have membership in and regularly attend specific churches?
Church attendance is a superficial and limited way to measure a
person, if that is what we are trying to do. I'm sure there are many
who occupy pews or even lead congregations who don't reflect Christ-like or
God/Supreme Being attributes in the way they conduct their lives and treat their
fellowmen. Let us not forget the Pharisees.... Who are
today's Pharisees? Re:BYUalumThe Blaze and Breitbart are
not credible sources. They have no journalistic standards period. The
more DN and readers reference such dubious sources the more likely they will be
mislead and misinformed.
chris brigham cityi must have missed it but i thought the article was
about barry not mitt. i can assure you that mitt went to church more than 18
times over the last five years. sorry to see barry's groupies distort and
try and change the topic.
In most cases, I couldn't care less whether an elected leader attends
church regularly, seldom, or not at all. In my opinion, there is no correlation
between church attendance or belief in God and ethical, moral behavior. Actions
speak louder than pious posturing. As a husband and father, I don't think
we have had many president in our history who are more exemplary than Barack
@patriotI don't know whether to roll my eyes at your comments about
"hate white people church" while still asserting he's a Muslim, or
appreciate the fact that you acknowledge there's anti-Muslim bigotry.@Mike RichardsYou did notice that only 4 in 10 Americans say they
attend church while other studies say 7-7.5 in 10 Americans are Christian,
right? It's not as rare as you think. I haven't been to church in
months which is kinda funny because I'd been going to Catholic Mass and
then haven't been there since the new Pope that I really like.
McDugal: The Blaze and Breitbart are newsworthy sources that I look
at and trust every day. Why not quote them?
How many times did the GOP candidate for the White House in 2012 attend church
in recent years? He surely worked on Sunday during the campaign. Where were
his records? Was he active in that congregation?
There is no political advantage for Barry to go anymore. He used it in Chicago
to get into politics.
Why would someone who claims to be "Christian" find it so hard to find a
Christian church to attend more than 18 times in five years? That amounts to
about 7% attendance. Most Christians think that attending Church is worth more
than 7% of their Sabbaths. Most people who worship God can find some way to
include regular worship in their schedules. Maybe Mr. Obama had more important
things to do. He found time to play 157 rounds of golf. I'm not a golfer,
but I've been told that playing a round of golf takes more time than most
church meetings. So, Mr. Obama thinks that smacking a little ball around is 9
times more important than worshipping God. But, what do I know, maybe Obama
plays golf with God, but if that's the case, then why would God command the
rest of us to keep the Sabbath Day holy - if He's busy playing golf with
Obama.Is it any wonder that the man who was crowned "The Liar of
the Year" spent so little time studying a supreme being who commanded us to
not bear false witness?
I had to login just to say that this is a very poor example of journalism.Someone at DDM should be taking writing news really seriously.
NYTimes:"People close to the president say that Mr.
Obama’s spiritual beliefs are profoundly held. In addition to the daily
devotional he receives — which contains lines of Scripture and quotations
from people as wide-ranging as Nina Simone and Johnny Cash — Mr. Obama
regularly speaks to spiritual leaders on a variety of topics. Every year on his
birthday, the president convenes a phone call with ministers “to thank God
for the year that was and pray for the year ahead.”He has
turned to his faith during difficult times, and is comfortable invoking
Scripture.His vision of faith is also an inclusive one, perhaps an
outgrowth of his own eclectic upbringing. He spent several childhood years in
Indonesia, with its predominantly Muslim population, but attended a private
Catholic grade school for much of that time; he later lived in Hawaii, a melting
pot of cultures.Mr. Obama set his own inclusive tone early,
declaring during his first Inaugural Address, “We are a nation of
Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers.” He was the
first president to hold an Easter prayer breakfast, and he also held the first
Passover Seder at the White House, traditions he has repeated."
"I'm not suggesting anything about Romney, nor is this article. Your
stretches are getting almost silly. "But, it makes my point.
Romney would not have attended an LDS service on Christmas this year and you
would not have considered it "Sad".It would have made no
difference to me. And I would not have used it to denigrate Mr Romney, who I
feel is a fine upstanding man (I feel the same about Obama and GW Bush.)See the double standard?
"Exactly how and where did I criticize the president in any comment I made
to this article? "Really? How about this?"It's actually sad that Obama can't even go thru the motions of
doing what is traditional on Christmas day for active Presidents of the United
States.""And yes, you do often defend Obama... regardless of
the topic."Virtually never. Feel free to find one. However, I
do point out constantly that the criticisms of Obama are for things that the
right also does.Many blast Obama for doing things that they would
completely support if proposed by a Republican.I just want some
@ Morgan Duel" Seems to me that as the leaders go, so goes the
nation!"Then no worries,Mr. Obama seems to be an exemplary
husband and father, a responsible and caring citizen. A president that will go
into the annals of history as the US President that received a country that was
afraid, with a collapsing economy, and rampant inequalities. He took took this
country and under his leadership unemployment decreased from over 9% to less
than 7%,he re-established the U.S.A. as a powerhouse in the world, fought to
repair socials injustices as DOMA and DADT, for the first time more people in
the U.S.A. have access to medicine.For the "Rambo" type, he
captured Osama Bin Laden.As Ronald Reagan would ask : Are you (the
U.S.A.) better off now than 4 years ago? The answer is a resounding
...YES!!!!President Obama and his family don't go to church
every Sunday. But, What a family!!!
Reagan didn't attend church either. No big deal. I could care less if
Barack does or doesn't attend church. He attended Rev Wright's
"hate white people" church for years which helped shape his twisted
views so church hasn't been good for Barack regardless. I think it is
obvious Barack became a Christian out of political expediency. He knew he
couldn't get elected to high office as a Muslim.
"Ronald Reagan never attended church on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day
during his entire eight years in office, for example. That’s reflected in
his own diaries and daily schedules, available online through the Ronald Reagan
Presidential Foundation and Library. "(Factcheck)
Seems to me that as the leaders go, so goes the nation!
It's hardly surprising that Barack Obama doesn't attend church.
However, if a guy like Reverend Wright would be preaching, it's probably
best that he goes as infrequently as possible.
@ JoeBlow:I'm not suggesting anything about Romney, nor is this
article. Your stretches are getting almost silly. And yes, you do often defend
Obama... regardless of the topic. It's obvious that I've read a lot
more of your past comments than you have mine. Exactly how and where
did I criticize the president in any comment I made to this article? I simply
suggested a simple way for him to make this a non-issue. No double standard
there at all. Read, think and then write. There would then be less reason
for you to become so defensive and/or tend to get off subject.
@Tators"It's actually sad that Obama can't even go thru the
motions of doing what is traditional on Christmas day for active Presidents of
the United States. "You suggest the first four comments are made
by people who defend Obama no matter what, and then you immediately attack him
for not going to church on Christmas? He's not pastor in chief,
there's no requirement to go to church any given day. "If
nothing else, it would leave him less open to criticism from
conservatives."After 5 years, he's figured out that people
like you will attack him... no matter what.
"It's actually sad that Obama can't even go thru the motions of
doing what is traditional on Christmas day for active Presidents of the United
States" Are you suggesting that Romney would have
"gone thru the motions" and gone to church on Christmas Day had he been
elected?I dont defend Obama "no matter what he does or
doesn't do". But many, (you perhaps?) will find fault regardless of
what he does or doesnt do. Double standard much?
Interesting that the first 4 comments to this article seem to be by anti-formal
religion liberal zealots who always try to defend Obama no matter what he does
or doesn't do.It's actually sad that Obama can't even
go thru the motions of doing what is traditional on Christmas day for active
Presidents of the United States. If nothing else, it would leave him less open
to criticism from conservatives. And since he is a self-proclaimed Christian,
there certainly wouldn't be anything hypocritical about doing so. Perhaps
it's just too much effort.
President Obama's faith should be a private matter between he and his god
and should not be a matter of concern for the media. On a more concerning
matter, why has the Deseret News started to reference The Blaze and Breitbart??
The LDS Church does not have services on Christmas Day unless it falls on a
Sunday. I wonder what other Christian religions offer no Christmas Day
Fortunately, there is no religious qualification necessary for public office.
At any level.
What a no win situation for Obama.Muslim? He is a Muslim attending
the wrong church.Christian? He attended Rev Wrights church, which
is badNo church? Bad as well.Takeaway? See what Obama
does and find reason for hatred. Mostly by self proclaimed "religious
conservatives". Ironic perhaps?