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Comments about ‘Too few men leads to youth violence, University of Michigan study finds’

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Published: Sunday, Dec. 29 2013 11:35 a.m. MST

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bandersen
Saint George, UT

intervention: Your assumption of my emotional state is quite wrong. I am not angry at all. I like to state the truth. whether someone is persuaded by it doesn't concern me in the least. I find myself laughing more than anything else when I read some of the insanity that "passes" as wisdom. Albert Schweitzer said, "Grow into your ideals so that life can not rob you of them." Marriage, between a man and a women, is one of those ideals that many will be robbed of, including those who enter into a gay marriage, because they stopped their own growth with poor choices. Society ought to do a better job of giving them a chance to make an appropriate choice.

Pops
NORTH SALT LAKE, UT

There are four groups at risk with the introduction of "gay" marriage, if we pretend that the motivation behind it is having families: girls growing up without fathers, girls growing up without mothers, boys growing up without mothers, and boys growing up without fathers. The only one we know anything about is the last, and we don't really need studies for that - just take a look at inner-city Chicago, or DC, or LA. 1 out of the 4 is a complete disaster and the other three are complete unknowns, and we're willing to bet the future of civilization on it. I guess we'll pretty much get what we deserve, and it won't be pretty.

Howard Beal
Provo, UT

We have a dearth of male role models in public education. Some elementary schools you can't find a male adult from administrator down to the crossing guard. Even in secondary schools, males are lesser in number. While I believe it would be great to end the tide of divorce and the other ills of society well outlined above, that probably won't happen or best case happen overnight. Having more positive male role models in our schools can help.

But the why are the male role models disappearing? Well, young married men can't raise a family on a teacher's salary. We need to change this by making teaching a more attractive profession generally and for males specifically.

Finally, I would also suspect that most children from divorce are raised by mothers. When all the adult authorities figures are female (from Mom to the teacher to the daycare provider after school), this can lead to serious challenges, especially for boys. They need more people in their lives they can relate to.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

An interesting study that confirms the obvious, but the conclusions drawn seem a bit of a mess.

The evidence is overwhelming that too few adult/mature males in a community is a net negative, but what about the opposite? Is having an abundance of males a good thing – as Kruger concludes by citing the civilizing role women can play when too many men have to compete for women – or is it a bad thing, as Hudson concludes by citing what is happening in China. All other things being equal, both of these conclusions cannot be true simultaneously.

Likely the former is true and China is an anomaly (due to other cultural factors), but you wouldn’t know it from this jumbled piece.

And what does this article have to do with gay marriage? Some of the comments here contain more non-sequiturs than a Glenn Beck chalkboard presentation.

Gildas
LOGAN, UT

A woman divorces her husband and goes to work; children (male and female) are often left to themselves and get out of control.

Men as sole bread winner allowed for women to stay home and raise the children, but husbands also had a say in child-rearing. When men, the real fathers of the children of a stable marriage, are present and their views respected a good balance between discipline and understanding, justice and mercy, is achieved in the home.

In the absence of the father this all falls apart, and the child has no ever-present male role model. When a boy turns about twelve he especially needs this, and at that age, if not before, mothers often aren't able or disposed to control their children alone. Far from being a civilizing influence on her male children, a situation develops in which the adolescent boy fills the power vacuum created by the absence of a father, and takes over "leadership", likely not of the best. Far from being an understanding, gentle, creation of the mother, a male child might become a bully and a tyrant, when male hormones are not tempered by experience, chivalry, responsiblily and maturity.

Ricardo Carvalho
Provo, UT

Great comment Howard. I have often wondered whether there exists good research studying the lack of men in the K-12 teaching profession. While I have often raised the flag on behalf of women, I suspect this is one of the cases in which we need to do something to equalize gender ratios in the profession.

Another Perspective
Bountiful, UT

Too few men lead to violence? That's exactly the opposite of what I would have expected.

Interloper
Portland, OR

It seems reasonable to me that an abnormally low population of males would have some negative effects on communities and therefore cities and states. But, we should remember that this a theory. And, that it should not be considered in isolation. There are other known factors, including income inequality, that result in poverty, disintegration of families and, sometimes, higher levels of violence.

oragami
St. George, UT

I am a proud supporter of gay marriage. I find it laughable that anyone posting here is trying to link the results of this study to gay marriage. How would two men being able to get married contribute in any way to the problems cited in this research? It seems to me that it is more likely that gay marriage will promote the kind of commitment and self-control young boys need to see more of in their neighborhoods (just like straight marriage does).

What's next? Gay people getting married causes the death of area bald eagles?

johnthomasjones
St. George, UT

bandersen do you really believe that legalizing gay marriage deprives communities of men who would have otherwise married women, had children, and lived up to "God's standard" as you define it? Seriously? Do you even know what gay means?

Tators
Hyrum, UT

Bill O'Reilly has been talking about this particular issue for years and advocating the need for more positive male (father) influence in society in general and especially in the lives of teenage males. It makes perfect sense, as this study has concluded. But liberals have been condemning him for this very stance.
Hopefully, they and society in general will now start paying more attention and taking steps to correct this wide-spread problem.

MercyNLovelie
USA, CA

No, oragami.

You asked, "How would two men being able to get married contribute in any way to the problems cited in this research?"

The answer is: because two men are raising kids without a female figure in the home; and two women are raising kids without a male figure in the home. Gay marriage supports non-traditional family structures.

Since a male figure is missing in the home, the potential consequences still apply. Male / Female = different.

Gay marriage supporters tell children that they "don't need" a mother or father. "Any two adults will do." Children are raised to believe that one gender can replace or substitute the other, while at the same time learning that neither gender matters.

This is detrimental to society. It's horrible to teach children to devalue their gender - or the opposite gender - or both genders at the same time. It's wrong. Morally wrong. And no matter what the "adults" say, our actions will speak louder than our words.

Bob K
porland, OR

Yes, it is terrible, but the republican idea of saving money by cutting funding for Head Start, sex education, and PBS makes it worse.

Imagine being so totally out of it that you believe that preaching abstinence to inner city and suburban kids works better than giving out free condoms!!!

We need to get in and educate the people how to form families that work, which means (horrors!) birth control and allowing abortions, while educating poor women to head them off via birth control and wise decision making.

And then, some of these unwanted kids are adopted by Gay couples, unless we decide they are better off in orphanages, which is insanity!

By the way, current studies say that having two parents is a good predictor of childrens' being successful, and the gender of parents is not a factor -- unless you want to listen to the discredited studies by Regnerus, et al

TimBehrend
Auckland NZ, 00

Did i miss something? The article wasn't about strong marriages, stable families, and positive male role models. It was reported on a significant correlation between gender imbalance and violence. The explanations were based in economics, not abstract values that are more present on the lip than in everyday behaviour.

JSB
Sugar City, ID

r.e. Oragami. The point is that it is hard to predict how changes in social (family) structure will affect our society. Gay marriage is a major change and we can't know just how it will affect our society over the long term (e.g. the disasterous consequences of no-fault divorce, abortion, increased sexual promiscuity, etc.). One thing we can anticipate with legitimization of gay marriage is other family structures will become more common (multiple partner families such and three or more men or women or two or more adults of different sexes). This will lead to more venereal disease, unpredictable parenting patterns resulting poorly trained children and more poverty, crime and social chaos. Is this what you want?

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

An interesting study that confirms the obvious, but the conclusions drawn seem a bit of a mess.

The evidence is overwhelming that too few adult/mature males in a community is a net negative, but what about the opposite? Is having an abundance of males a good thing – as Kruger concludes by citing the civilizing role women can play when too many men have to compete for women – or is it a bad thing, as Hudson concludes by citing what is happening in China. All other things being equal, both of these conclusions cannot be true simultaneously.

Likely the former is true and China is an anomaly (due to other cultural factors), but you wouldn’t know it from this jumbled piece.

And what does this article have to do with gay marriage? Some of the comments here contain more non-sequiturs than a Glenn Beck chalkboard presentation.

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

“There are citizens fighting for the city, and a beautiful population of children whose future is bright," Caldwell said. "I would not call it a bleak city.”

I tutored junior high school children in an inner city community center. A 13 year old black girl told me one afternoon, "Don't be offended, but I don't see what is the point of men." At another time I was telling stories to teenage inmates in a juvenile detention center. I told a story about a young man who was adopted into an enemy tribe during a war. In his first battle he ended up being paired off against his father. The father told the son, "Seal your adoption with my blood."

One of the inmates raised his hand and asked, "How did he know it was his father?" The reason this young man was in juvenile detention was because he grew up in a neighborhood where you would not automatically know your father.

Stories like these are why I have concluded that the forces in society that support traditional marriage and that men should be responsible for the children they father are the liberal, progressive segments of society.

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

@MercyNLovelie:
"This is detrimental to society. It's horrible to teach children to devalue their gender - or the opposite gender - or both genders at the same time. It's wrong. Morally wrong. And no matter what the "adults" say, our actions will speak louder than our words."

I agree with your position. Through media and laws our culture has gradually, over the last 50 years, drifted into a cultural paradigm which has caused and is causing an immense amount of poverty and ruined lives. That is what we learn from this study.

oragami
St. George, UT

MercyNLovelie

I see you have very little understanding of gender, beyond what you have learned from gender essentialists. Further, gay couples already have children, often out of wedlock. Do you believe that those children are better off outside the confines of a loving and committed marriage between those couples?

JBQ
Saint Louis, MO

This article is very good. However, it only treats the symptoms. It doesn't treat the causes because they are too controversial. Prisons are filled with those who should be there. Prisons have become the fathers for those who have none. Gangs attempt to fill that void. Now, we have a liberal element who want to label prisoners as the "true victims" of an unjust economic society. In the recent gubernatorial election in Virginia, McAuliffe "outscored" Cuccanelli 74-16 among unmarried women. All religions are breaking down and giving in to pressures on the traditional family. Billy Graham is finishing up his earthly mission. Actually, society is in a great deal of trouble.

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