Published: Sunday, Dec. 29 2013 12:00 a.m. MST
Once same-sex marriage becomes fully legal, the small minority of those who
appoint themselves as the Morality Police will have less power over the rest of
us. Once people see that the world won't come to an end and that your
typical gay person is just an ordinary citizen trying to lead a decent life,
they might start to wonder what else they were told that was wrong.Are those the "grave detrimental results" he's referring to?
If Utah can prove same-sex marriage insidiously dangerous, ruinous or gravely
detrimental over time, the state will have a case. So the case for harming
anyone consists of crickets chirping.
You kinda need a reason to ban same-sex marriage beyond "I think it's a
sin and gross". The lack of finding such a reason is why the Amendment 3
defense team failed so miserably.
People aren't born bigots. You can either teach your children that we are
all God's children. Or you can teach them that they're extra special
and better than others because of your beliefs.
And what are the harms of same-sex marriage that it should not be accepted?
There is an insidious danger in condoning religion. One's moral compass can
change over time. The progression from rejection, to tolerance, to condoning, to
acceptance, to approval and finally embracing most likely will occur.Some behaviors seem innocuous at first, but become ruinous over time. This
aberration of discrimination will have grave detrimental results. To condone it
means to allow it to occur.....A wise judge once said, “This is a
violation of the US Constitution.”
Since when did marriage become something detrimental to society? Oh,
I get it. It's not so much marriage as it is gay people. Gay people are
detrimental to society. Gay married people.
Attitudes towards social behaviours outside the mores of society change because
people realise that they've been misled and lied to about them in the past.
With a week of gay married people in our midst, I'm not seeing the
kind of detrimental effects manifest that are going to win an argument to
overturn the constitution.
'There is an insidious danger in condoning same-sex marriage.' -
Letter And that is…? Because we have examples of
what happens after gay marriage is allowed in America. Would you like to see
them? *'After 5 Years of Legal Gay Marriage, Massachusetts
still has the lowest state divorce rate...' - Bruce Wilson - AlterNet -
08/24/09 *'TEN YEARS later, 85 Percent of Massachusetts voters
say NO HARM from Marriage Equality' – 09/27/13
'Massachusetts now has the lowest divorce rate in the
nation…' Those who oppose marriage equality have again
and again failed to present any real-world consequences to gay marriage. Citing
'it's gonna be bad!' as a reason to deny LGBT Americans the 1,100
rights and legal protections given with marriage. Let me be clear:
No Harm? No foul. Do not fabricate reasons
and try to present them as fact. The rest of the world knows what a
lie is. And Jesus had a few choice words about those who bear
From God's viewpoint it's a dangerous lifestyle. When a majority
upholds same-sex lifestyles through legislation His Spirit begins to withdraw
from the nation. The negative spirit begins to take hold. Natural
catastrophes, plagues, crop failures can be counted on in an effort to get
people to repent. Hopefully, there are enough people left who not only believe
in God but believe him when he says, "Thou shalt not" to prevent the
loss of His Spirit over the nation.
Multiplicity only happens in movies. In the real world there is
"right" and there is "wrong". Once upon a time, the Deseret
News stood for "right", but now they worry about being "politically
correct". They worry about what people will think if they choose to follow
the owner of this newspaper. They would rather be popular than to do the right
thing.As children, we played in a make-believe world where we became
characters who fascinated us. Today, there are still people who are past that
childhood state who tell us that they want to be a man or a woman because that
is what they "feel" like being. How very nice. Their unreal world is
real only to themselves, but they claim that the 14th Amendment protects their
fantasy world and that they have the "right" to force the rest of us to
join in and become "players" in their fantasy.God gave each
of us an identity. That identity is permanent. We cannot change it by
pretending that we live in a make-believe world. God made no
mistakes, but people make mistakes when they tell us that they are correct and
that God is wrong.
@ Sal: Homosexuality is mentioned approximately six times in the Bible. Loving
your neighbor, caring for the poor and less fortunate, the sin of greed - all
these are mentioned multiple times. His most important laws are built around
these concepts. If God decides to send His wrath and destruction, it
is more likely to be over something He cared enough to mention frequently and
use as a foundation for His laws, than something mentioned a mere six times.
After all, inspite of modern misrepresentations, the sins of Sodom
and Gomorrah were greed, selfishness, and a lack of caring for the poor and the
Sal and Mike prove that there is in reality no line between Church and State in
their Utah. How people could hold that view today is a tribute to the
social/political atmosphere here. One party rule and and a feeling of insularity
from the rest of the world contributes to that belief. Sal even brings back
early Puritan pastor Jonathan Edwards sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an
Angry God" in his world view. Step over the line and get ready to dodge
lightning bolts? You both are "free" to believe anything and everything
you choose, you just don't get to use the State to impose those views on
the rest of us.
Kalindra, God speaks through modern prophets today. He has spoken more than six
times as to the sin of homosexuality. God stated in the Bible that he would do
nothing except through his prophets (Amos 3:7). You can know, too, if God has
living prophets on the earth today by asking Him and being willing to live His
commandments. Millions of us have done this and know that God still speaks to
mankind today through His prophets.
@ Sal: Those are your religious beliefs - and you are welcome to have them. But
my religious beliefs are different than yours, as are those of the majority of
Americans. And you can't seriously tell me the primary focus of
your religion is anti-homosexuality to the exclusion of God's other
Commandments. Again, if God decides to bring down His wrath - it
will be for neglecting His key principles, which includes having an unhealthy
focus on limiting other's rights to believe as they choose.
Kalindra,So majority rules in your belief system unless one judge decides
otherwise? I believe all of God's commandments. I show kindness towards
gays in voting for civil unions. How does your side show kindness towards the
millions with deeply held religious beliefs concerning traditional marriage? Grover,Your disgust for the citizens of Utah leaves me marveling
at how you could fail to note how well run the state is: economically sound, low
crime rate, well-educated youthsWe are not so insular as you think.
Millions and millions of good Christians world-wide believe in traditional
marriage as the safest, healthiest standard for youth to follow.
"And what are the harms of same-sex marriage that it should not be
accepted?"The only harm in same-sex marriage is... the eventual
demise of all marriages.If same-sex marriage is allowed all other
combinations of marriage must soon follow... such as polygamy polygamy,
incestuous relations, siblings, father/daughter, mother/son, etc. These can all
be loving relationships not unlike homosexuality. At which time marriage will
lose its purpose and meaning.
@Sal" Natural catastrophes, plagues, crop failures can be counted on
in an effort to get people to repent."Weather doesn't work
like that. Unless you think tornadoes are some sort of sign of approval since
they strike most frequently in the Bible belt."God speaks
through modern prophets today."You believe that, but I
don't. "I show kindness towards gays in voting for civil
unions."If you did you'd oppose Amendment 3 since that
banned civil unions.@Mike Richards"As children, we played
in a make-believe world where we became characters who fascinated us."Some still do. The John Galt fans are probably the worst...
"And what are the harms of same-sex marriage that it should not be
accepted?"Denying the significance of mothers and fathers - the
fact that both are needed and contribute in different ways - thus weakening the
rights of parents. Teaching children to devalue gender because the
absence of a father or mother is acceptable.Having society preach
that mothers and fathers are interchangeable; and that thinking otherwise is
"bigoted."Violating freedom of religion because the refusal
to perform LGBT marriages is considered a "violation of civil/human
rights."Separating marriage from reproduction, thereby extending
marriages between siblings and straight friends (with or without an intimate
relationship) - because the redefinition is "any two people of consenting
age."Extending marriage by the same logic to any two people
regardless of age (since intimacy in marriage is arbitrary).Extending marriage by the same logic to any two people regardless of the
number of partners (since consent is given by all involved).And
finally, destroying the meaning of marriage and the fact that without it, men
and women have nothing left to define their symbiotic relationship as sacred
instead of just functional.
Attitudes about certain social behaviors, outside the mores of a particular
society, can change over time. The progression from rejection, to tolerance, to
condoning, to acceptance, to approval and finally embracing most likely will
occur.==== Apply what you said to Race, Religion, Age,
Gender and see if your opinion still holds true.I did, and and it does
not.Mike, Sal, Miss Piggie -- If you want to live an a
Theocracy run by Biblical Laws -- go live in Iran.This is America,
and will always defend it.
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