Comments about ‘Letter: Marriage licenses’

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Published: Friday, Dec. 27 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Willem
Los Angeles, CA

Darling this fight is over the Mormon church lost but our country won, equality is for everyone including gay and lesbians, case closed.

Sal
Provo, UT

Liberals are the truly intolerant. They could have recognized the deeply held beliefs of the religious by accepting civil unions and allowing the religious to uphold traditional marriage as the safest, healthiest union for the benefit of children, families, and society.

You are correct; gays will not stop with government-issued marriage licenses. Religious organizations will be next. The persecution will continue. The nation will decline as God's Spirit recedes in the face of accepted immorality. The negative spirit will increase along with violence and natural catastrophes as the earth vomits under the load of sin (Leviticus 18:25). For liberals, Leviticus is a book in the Old Testament.

Thank goodness there are still a lot of people who not only believe in God but they believe him and take the time to know him by reading and obeying his word.

PolishBear
Charleston, WV

DEAR BRUCE BRADSHAW:

Let me at least TRY to reassure you: Churches (whether LDS or other) will be completely unaffected by marriage equality for Gay couples. Churches have always been free to conduct their own internal affairs as they see fit, as long as they are not benefiting from taxpayer dollars.

Look at it this way: Muslim and Atheist and Jewish couples are allowed to marry, and churches have never been compelled to provide weddings for them. Nothing is going to change when Gay couples tie the knot also. And besides, none of the legal benefits of marriage come from churches anyway; they come from GOVERNMENT.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

I begged, I pleaded, I was shouted down by the right-wing....

I asked for the compromise of Civil Unions, or Domestic Partnerships --
but the right-wing chose the uncompromising "All-or-Nothing" stance.

You wanted it, you got it.

BTW --
Congradulations to the all the new legal couples.

Ranch
Here, UT

I thought I'd seen it all, Bruce, but your letter takes the cake. Strange. Irrational. Illogical. Just plain wierd.

PolishBear
Charleston, WV

DEAR OPEN-MINDED MORMON:

It is rather interesting, is it not? I often hear it said, "I don't care of Gay couples have the same rights as Straight couples, just don't call it MARRIAGE!!!"

And YET, whenever "civil unions" have been proposed as a compromise, the usual organizations like the Family Research Council and the American Family Association argue against it just as venomously. For them, even granting Gay couples thinks like hospital visitation rights represents an insidious "chipping away" at the institution of marriage.

And the 14th Amendment be damned.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

I can't speak to the future but up to this point it looks to me like all they wanted to do was get married, and they weren't worried about whether it was in a church or an office building hallway.

Kimber
Salt Lake City, UT

I don't know if it will ever happen here or not, but some countries in Europe require that marriages first happen in a civil court and then the couple can then do as they wish for their particular religion. This would solve a lot of things for people invited that do not participate in religions like Mormonism, because those people would not be invited to the temple service anyway.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Kimber
Salt Lake City, UT

Agreed.

We don't get "married" in the Temples anyway - we are "Sealed".

We then step away from the altars,
exchange rings, and then sign the legal documentation -- just like at the Court House.

THAT is the only "legal" part of it anyway.

BTW --
The opposite of marriage is divorce.

I have yet to hear the arguement of evoking God in Divorce Court.
and I've never witnessed anything more "Godless" and strictly "legal" in all my life!

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Mr. Bradshaw

Nothing to fear.

For 14 yrs after the Civil Rights Act, blacks could not be married in the Temple.
Despite anti-discrimination laws, women are prohibited from holding the priesthood and leadership positions.
Churches are exempt from the American Disabilities Act.

glendenbg
Salt Lake City, UT

I've read this letter twice now and I keep seeing the same thing.

The author is afraid gay people will do to straight what straight people have already done to gay people.

Back in 2004, voters in Utah voted to ban gay people from legally marrying. The author is afraid gay people will turn around and want to deny legal marriage to straight people. Clearly, he sees being denied a marriage license as a punishment. What does that say about Amendment 3 and how it treated gay couples?

To use another phrase, the author of this letter is afraid that what goes around, comes around. I hope that people reflect on this insight and ask themselves if, in general, they and society have treated gay and lesbians persons with dignity and respect.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Dearest Mr. Bradshaw,

Allow me to alleviate your concerns.

UK…

*'Legalizing gay marriage may improve health and reduce healthcare costs' – The UK Guardian – 02/01/13

Canada...

*'Gay marriage thriving in Canada' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar - DSNews - 01/19/11

'Then on Jan. 14, the first two gay couples ever legally married in Canada celebrated their 10th anniversary.'

America…

5yrs after marriage equality..
*'After 5 Years of Legal Gay Marriage, Massachusetts still has the lowest state divorce rate...' - Bruce Wilson - AlterNet - 08/24/09

10yrs after marriage equality..
*'TEN YEARS later, 85 Percent of Massachusetts voters say NO HARM from Marriage Equality' – Alternet - 09/27/13
'Massachusetts now has the lowest divorce rate in the nation, same-sex families now enjoy full legal protections…'

33yrs together..
*'Same-sex couples finding a home in Delaware' - By Mike Chalmers, The News Journal of Wilmington - Published by DSNews - 06/23/11

"I've seen such a generational change," said Elkins, 60, who has been with his partner for 33 years. "These younger people, it's like, 'What's the big deal?'"

2013 years later, we still have zero evidence that marriage equality brings any factual harm to society.

No Harm?

No Foul.

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

For those who believe that God is a partner in the marriage covenant, the state can call them marriages, but you and I can exercise our free speech and call them what they are, civil unions.

OMM It was the homosexual lobby that turned down civil unions claiming they are unequal.

Starry starry night
Palm Springs , CA

The unfettered joy illuminating the faces of Utah's newly married same sex citizens says it all.
It is complete, it is visceral. It is just. Congratulations to all my friends and fellow Americans in the amazingly beautiful state of Utah!

Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

@Badgerbadger --

"but you and I can exercise our free speech and call them what they are, civil unions. "

You must have forgotten that many Christian denominations are already happy to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies. I was impressed that several ministers even showed up to the SL County courthouse on Friday and Monday to marry happy couples who wanted religious officiants. There was even a Baptist minister there, which really startled me.

"It was the homosexual lobby that turned down civil unions claiming they are unequal."

It was both, actually. Utah's constitutional amendment specifically banned civil unions, so LGBTS couldn't have had them even if they wanted them. But, as you mentioned, separate is unequal in any case.

insulhom
West Valley City, UT

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my initial letter. Legally speaking, the courts have no choice but to legalize same-sex marriage. The government has been meddling in the marriage business since at least the 1860's in the US. It has also been tying government benefits to marriage status, thus creating the political quagmire that we find ourselves in today. If the government would just get out of the marriage business altogether and return the institution to the churches, where it once belonged, then there would be no problem. As mentioned in a previous comment, there are religious institutions who are willing to perform same-sex marriages. Therefore, by getting out of the marriage business, the government can effectively solve the entire problem without actually threatening the institutions religious aspects.

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