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Ask Angela: 'Nagging Newlywed' responds to '24 years old, headed to divorce' discussion

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  • orem_man_am_i orem, UT
    Dec. 30, 2013 9:14 a.m.

    I have a 23 tree old son who was married ten months at which time his wife left him. Her reason for leaving was because my son 'got mad' at times, and her expectations (that were set by her father's example) were that husbands should never get angry.

    Unfortunately this goes to show that some people have completely unreasonable expectations of what married life is like and all the marriage counseling in the world cannot fix the problem.

    Your plan is a good one however don't be afraid to end the marriage if counseling does not resolve the issues. You are very young and will have plenty of opportunities to find someone who is willing to work to make a relationship a success.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 30, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    This young man needs a job, not a medication.

    Too many people put all their faith into pills for their answers to life's problems.
    It runs against the Gospel.

  • KG South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 30, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    I don't intend for my comment to come across as saying that you haven't tried, or aren't fighting to keep your marriage. I simply mean to echo an earlier comment that said something like, "What is there to save? A Marriage!!"

    Keep trying, keep communicating, keep seeking guidance from your Bishop, a counselor, and God. Good luck!

  • KG South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 30, 2013 8:44 a.m.

    I haven't had time to read all of these comments, so please forgive me if I am covering ground already covered. I am no marriage counselor or expert, but my experience may help someone, so here it goes. I divorced my first wife after only 15 months of marriage. Actually, she divorced me. Details aren't important, and I don't intend this to sound like it will, but long story short, she gave up on our marriage. She moved on to another before ours had even begun. This broke my heart, and when she served me with divorce papers, it might have been the lowest point in my life. However, with all the rage, disappointment, and countless other emotions, I couldn't accept that my marriage should end without giving EVERYTHING I could think of to save it. It was never going to be enough to save a marriage that only one person wanted to save, but I had to give all I had so I could live with myself. After all, I made vows and covenants, and I wanted to do my best to keep them and make sure there was no hope of reconciliation before I relented.

  • mmom ,
    Dec. 30, 2013 8:07 a.m.

    I also commented on the original post. I agree with doing all you can, and your order - Bishop, Counselor, Lawyer, as long as you don't stop at Bishop... However, resist the temptation to "settle". If you don't see significant enough changes at a significant pace, consider that it may be enough of who he is to damage your future happiness and that of your future children. It's prudent and noble to do all you can to save the marriage, but don't stay stuck if he doesn't do the same with results.

  • EngineerinSaltLake Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 29, 2013 11:47 p.m.

    Not everyone who plays video games is a deadbeat or addicted and has to play everyday. Lots of people play and have normal lives. Just want to make that distinction.

  • JimE Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 29, 2013 8:06 p.m.

    Gaming is an addiction. Women need to know about it before they marry a man.
    I have a 19 year old that can't stay away from it. Best of luck in finding your solution.

  • RDJntx Austin, TX
    Dec. 29, 2013 6:06 p.m.

    I would like to address some of the comments here ... Primarily the ones that say "you need to make each other happy" I would submit that is the wrong way to look at things. happiness comes from within and it is not up to us to make anyone in our lives "happy". We have an obligation to look inside and determine what makes US happy and work to improve those things and in so doing we find happiness WITH others.

    I spent the first half of my life trying to make my mother happy. and failing miserably. I spent the next 13 years trying to make my ex-wife happy and failing miserably. I failed because I did not realize that THEY were unhappy inside themselves and it was not my place as a child to fix that for my mom, nor was it my place to fix my ex. I could walk the journey with them, I could support them in decisions they made, I could give them love but it was not my place to give them happiness. took me two years after my divorce to figure this out.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 29, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    My first thought is .. you didn't see this when dating? However I I do realize 'love is blind' has a lot of truth to it.

    You need to let him know this isn't what you expected and you aren't happy with the way things are going. (probably already done that).

    Next you need to decide if this is worth it to you. If not let him know you are going to look for a better situation and bid him (in the spirit of love) to do the same, to find a mate that is as into gaming as he is.

  • Dante Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 29, 2013 9:35 a.m.

    Bishops are not perfect, but the advice provided by most caring, sincere bishops can be excellent. With respect to personal problems, I believe bishops provide excellent, inspired advice about 70% of the time. The other 30% of the time, they they either seem unable to connect with the issues, or their advice arises more from their own firmly-held beliefs/prejudices than from inspiration. Some bishops seem able to provide inspired advice over 90% of the time.

    The advice couples receive from marriage counselors can be all over the map. Maybe 20% are excellent, 40% are good, 20% are unhelpful, and 20% do more harm than good. This can vary by counselor and by the nature of the problem.

    I would have greater trust for a bishop who also recommends a qualified marriage counselor, especially to diagnose and treat underlying psychological issues. The couple needs to pray with full purpose of heart for inspiration in knowing what advice to follow, especially in knowing when a marriage counselor is sufficiently helpful and able to connect with you as a couple. It's okay to shop around a little. Be wary of counselors wanting to set up long-term counseling relationships--unless the mental health issues are severe.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 28, 2013 11:22 p.m.

    I once had a wise person tell me that when you're dating it's easy because you see your partner at their best with all their makeup on, putting on their best show and dressing nice and trying to make the best impression on each other. When you've decided to commit to each other and marry in sacred places under sacred oaths that's when all the makeup and dresses and show melt away and you start to really see the person you married. That's when it becomes harder and you have to learn that despite the weaknesses of your partner you will love and honor them anyway. Love seeks to uplift and encourage when selfishness seeks a way out.

    It wasn't easy when I saw my wife's flaws for the first few years of marriage, but I decided that I loved her and would make it work and do everything to uplift and encourage her, knowing she had to put up with my flaws as well. Now I love her AND her flaws, not despite her flaws.

  • Bob Pomeroy Bisbee, AZ
    Dec. 28, 2013 9:29 p.m.

    This may sound crass, but have you tried the direct approach?

  • jimhale Eugene, OR
    Dec. 28, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    A young married man - or any married man of working age - needs to work fulltime at something designed to provide for his family.

    If he has a job that pays well, wonderful.
    If he has a job that does not, he needs to be working above and beyond that to obtain the skills to get a better job.
    If he has neither, he needs to:
    a) work full-time at job search and part-time at gaining new skills or
    b) go to school full-time and work part time.

    Only a man with a good paying job has time to play video games. And that man should be playing with his kids or wife instead - because his time is already at a premium.

    That said: video gaming is an addiction. When it is, a video gaming device should be no more welcome in a home than would a liquor cabinet in the home of an alcoholic.

  • Kinderly Riverdale, MD
    Dec. 28, 2013 12:47 p.m.

    I just have to say, Angela, it fascinates me that you do these follow up conversations. They push your advice column up another notch. Please keep on doing them when you have the opportunity.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Dec. 28, 2013 12:15 p.m.

    I generally agree Lentzeh. Hopefully she's in tune with the spirit.

    I think I just have an idea of where this thing is heading. If she paints an accurate picture, her husband needs help. I think she has a role in that help and perhaps in some of the issues facing the marriage overall. But divorce happens to people all the time, even to good and faithful people in the LDS church. It doesn't have to be crippling or life defining. However, divorce is hardest on the children. For 9 out of 10 children, divorce is a bad thing, it makes their lives harder on some many levels, and more than just beyond their childhood years. I would prefer things end before children are caught in the middle of this. To me this is a "life learning experience" children can do without (at least in 9 out of 10 cases)...

  • NoBoxScot Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 28, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    Video games are definitely addictive. Just search online under "video game addiction" or something similar. It can be as bad as hard drug addiction. Now that it is easier to access these games on iPhones, iPads, GameBoy, etc., we see the addiction setting in with even 3 year olds. They make great babysitters don't they? But we are at the same time killing our kids. A great majority of these are subtle (or not so subtle) in there presentation of violence as a cultural and psychological norm. I remember in the 70's when they first started coming out, I would not allow them on my computers or in my home - I still don't! The only one I've ever had on my handheld device is a simple hang gliding skill game I play maybe once a month or less. I have always thought it was a rather direct application of Isaiah 2:4 "neither shall they learn war anymore". Call me obsolete I guess.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 28, 2013 8:35 a.m.

    Prediction: This marriage will end in divorce.

    Divorce takes commitment but she's not committed to her marriage or her husband. She's too busy hedging her bets by including a lawyer in her plans. She wants to look good in the future. She wants people to believe she did everything she could to save the marriage but she is the victim. But one thing she won't do is wholly commit herself.

    If she's that way in marriage, I'm willing to bet she's the same way in other aspects of her life.
    - Will she ever give an employer her full effort when she's at work?
    - When she has children, will they ever really get all of her?
    - Is she only in the church until it becomes inconvenient to her?

    I descend from a long line of divorces including my father with seven of them. After my mom divorced him (due to physical abuse that nearly cost her life), she brought our family into the LDS church. Since then, we have not had one divorce in the family (out of 15 marriages). It hasn't been easy. It took total commitment and forgiving, unselfish hearts.

  • Lentzeh South Salt Lake, UT
    Dec. 28, 2013 1:27 a.m.

    Howard Beal, I share your concern for children of broken homes, which is why I have worked so hard to heal my marriage instead of throw it away when things were most difficult. However, what ifs are not always a good way to move our lives forward. There is only one source for the very best way to solve the problem for Nagging Newlywed, and that is to ask for and follow the advice of Heavenly Father. The rest of our advice is worth nothing unless it brings her to that conclusion. He only can know which challenges are worth the cost of fighting to overcome them. For instance, the damage that was done to our children early on was worth the cost because they witnessed how to be healed through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. When they faced challenges in their own marriages, they knew how to overcome them and they had the determination to follow the path they had been taught, while receiving comfort from loving parents that they knew understood their struggle.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    I guess I might have sounded heartless. But what about this scenario. She hangs on, which seems to be the consensus with the romantic crowd here, they have a couple of children. Things never really get better and then she decides to divorce.

    I'm all for ending things before this point. She definitely needs to avoid getting pregnant at all costs until some of these issues are resolved. I guess she could give it more time but I think going too much forward without improvement to the relationship is problematic. I wish her (and him) all the best. But again, to me getting divorced before having children is better than getting divorced with children or living in an unhappy marriage for years and years with or without children.

  • Lentzeh South Salt Lake, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 10:13 p.m.

    Earlier, I explain how I obtained help to overcome challenges of marriage, but I need to explain my role. First I had to accept that I should not try to change my husband, only he could choose to do that. My job was to change me and the way I responded to his actions. My example was Jesus Christ and those who followed Him. I prayed, fasted, and studied both scripture and the sciences with the question how I could be more Christlike and understand how to help my loved ones see for themselves the love God has for them. My son described it as allowing them to see the light in my life. I had hard times overcoming my weaknesses, but the amazing thing about changing my focus from my husband's weakness to my own, he started to change his focus from excusing his weakness because of my overbearingness to wanting to change because of his love for the Lord and his family. The Lord revealed to me the root causes of my husband's struggles and how responding to these challenges according to God's will gives the power and wisdom to overcome all things.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 9:40 p.m.

    Rather than a second round with the wife, I'd like to hear the husband's side of the story here!

  • Lentzeh South Salt Lake, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 8:15 p.m.

    Having a 37-year marriage joyfully survive a very difficult beginning that included abuse (both physical and mental), infidelity, addiction, and depression; I advise you to ask the Lord to help you know how to proceed. On one particularly evening when my heart was broken, begging the Lord to help me know how to feel, the Lord filled my heart with His love for my husband and His assurance that if I patiently listened to His counsel, my husband would overcome His weaknesses and I would find eternal joy with my family. Gradually, after following His counsel, my husband has become a changed man -- my knight in shining armor. Our children and grandchildren thank me for sticking with my temple covenants, even though there were many times when my children were younger that they begged me to divorce him. There were many tools, some you have mentioned, that God chose to help me overcome these challenges. However, I would NOT recommend medication without a therapy such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which helps the person change their thought patterns and behaviors. Otherwise the medication is only another form of addition.

  • Kings Court Alpine, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 7:37 p.m.

    Well, if you are already making plans to see a lawyer, your marriage is over.

  • jfarker Temecula, CA
    Dec. 27, 2013 7:24 p.m.

    If your husband is a good person, you can fall in love with him over and over again. Don't make decisions based on your feelings. You're right, you should have learned more about depression before you accepted the ring, but better late than never. Your marriage still has the potential for a lifetime of happiness and fulfillment, but not if you want to walk away at the first sign of trouble. If you were serious about your vows, then get serious about helping him instead of yourself. When he's healthy and happy, then you can think about yourself for a minute. Fast food containers are disposable. People are not!

  • Delirious Antioch, CA
    Dec. 27, 2013 7:17 p.m.

    I always think about the scripture that talks about how The Lord gives us weaknesses so we can be humble. So when our spouses have weaknesses, we should remember that The Lord is working with them to teach them humility. Some of their greatest character traits could have come from having these weaknesses. I'm glad that NN is planning to get professional help, because I think that her husband, once he learns what he needs to learn, will change.

  • jfarker Temecula, CA
    Dec. 27, 2013 7:16 p.m.

    These symptoms sound very familiar. As the daughter of a depressed/anxious parent, and as a sufferer of depression and anxiety myself, I BEG YOU not to give up on your husband!!!! This is a tired comparison, but still true: would you divorce him if you suddenly found out he had diabetes?!?!? No way--you would rally the troops to help him!

    Mental ILLNESS is a REAL illness. This is not your fault or his. He needs medication and counseling. You need counseling too, not from a marriage counselor, but from someone who has lived through a spouse's depression. I will be eternally in awe of and grateful for my mother's choice NOT to leave my depressed father. Hers was a conscious choice, made after years of pain and frustration, followed by years of self-education, followed by several months of shopping for a good counselor, followed by a couple of years of personal and couples counseling, all the while fasting and praying for help and guidance. As it turns out, this patience on my mother's part is what finally convinced my father that he had any self-worth (after a very painful childhood).

  • Schwa South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 6:30 p.m.

    I'm single and happy. In certain segments of society, being single in your 30s is very stigmatized. However, I know for sure I made the right decision.

  • grandmagreat Lake Havasu City, AZ
    Dec. 27, 2013 5:45 p.m.

    Don't give up. Marriage is not easy. We have just celebrated our 69th anniversary and it has taken all these years to really get to know each other. We have a great posterity of almost 100 and are so greatful that we have endured all the trials that have come up over these past almost 100 yars. My advise is Don't forget to Pray, and remember that it takes two to make a marriage.

  • desert Potsdam, 00
    Dec. 27, 2013 5:36 p.m.

    As people said before, use less friendship and counseling from the outside unless you do it together. The church leaders always adviced on coming closer together with the first obstacles in marriage. This your chance, but you going to ruin it letting others talk into you instead of you two !

    Another aspect of this situation you might mind is , as the flow of thoughts into his mind are dominated by others, esp. media and online, you both have less space to share with each other. You too should ingage in with him talks only and to others with him only.
    That way the spirit is honest, it will lead you both onto better ground, and it builds trust.

    I can tell you from personal experience, you lose him on ground of sneeking behind him to solve problems, you might lose him forever.
    The advice for bishop, counselors and friends is no good if you exclude your husband from it, building a kind of mistrust.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 4:19 p.m.

    Are there any children involved. If not, move on. Yes, it would have been better not to get married but unless there is some compelling reason, like children, to save this thing, cut bait and fish again.

  • Civil Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 3:13 p.m.

    Most marriages are more or less hell for the first year or two, but if you humble yourself and romance your spouse YOU can fall in love, YOU become more patient, and then TOGETHER you can build a marriage that is more or less heaven going forward.

    “Anyone who imagines that bliss is normal is going to waste a lot of time running around shouting that he’s been robbed. The fact is that most putts don’t drop, most beef is tough, most children grow up to just be people, most successful marriages require a high degree of mutual toleration, most jobs are more often dull than otherwise. Life is like an old time rail journey…delays…sidetracks, smoke, dust, cinders and jolts, interspersed only occasionally by beautiful vistas and thrilling burst of speed. The trick is to thank the Lord for letting you have the ride.” Gordon B. Hinckley

    Marriage is a lot like having kids. Kids are most often frustrating, but the thrills and fun moments, though less frequent than the difficult and mundane, are very much worth it!

  • Yorkshire City, Ut
    Dec. 27, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    @ A Scientist

    Oh, bless your wife. She's a saint

  • Brent T. Aurora CO Aurora, CO
    Dec. 27, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    Marriage (and temple marriage even more so) is a "permanent" decision. The first decision my wife and I made prior to marrying is that very one -- this is it, good or bad, happy or not, better or worse, no way out. In other words, divorce is not an option. There is no other side of the fence, whether there is greener grass there or not. We were/are/will be stuck with this choice...

    So you know what? You make it work -- because you have to.

    And, in response to comments here about selfishness, what is selfish is the idea that the two individuals in a marriage contract/covenant are more important than the institution of marriage. They are not. Want individual happiness -- find it in the marriage or just be unhappy. And who wants to be unhappy? So, here again, you make it work because you're stuck with it.

    Last advice -- have kids. Marriage is about family. The absence of children here (assuming it is possible) tells me both these "adults" aren't really committed to the temple marriage. Having kids gives you something to mutually "save" besides being glorified, legal roommates.

  • fani wj, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    A Scientist
    Provo, UT
    @Scientist
    "I am disappointed that the religious people I read about here have such struggles with marriage. There is talk of god and spirituality and sin and righteousness -- none of which has ever played a role in my three decades of successful marriage.

    "My LDS wife and I did not get married for the sake of marriage..."

    I'm glad that your marriage is working out great "without god's help" - but for an educated person who claim to know everything about his wife is beyond me...If you find out that your LDS wife had been praying about your marriage for all the 30+ years you've been together, would that change your feeling about her? It is silly to think that the other half of your marriage belongs to a religious person and at the same time claim that religion has nothing to do with your marriage success...it's like claiming that your scientist degree has nothing to do with you're being a scientist

  • cwhiskey Denver, CO
    Dec. 27, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    FYI - Video Game addiction does NOT equate to mental illness! lets not excuse poor self control for mental health issues. Addiction is real, mental health is real, but they are not necessarily connected! that will take some professionals to determine!
    I don't envy your situation! I know that video game addiction can lead to other addictions they time of a moral nature and can lead to serious consequences! Force the help you need so you 2 can work through it or move on!

  • EW HENRIETTA, NY
    Dec. 27, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    @Girl Talk, yes, depression is a major illness. However, do not confuse the sick version of a person with the well one. Mental illness can take a higher toll on relationships than other kinds of diseases, yet it is still a disease and does not define a person (see Elder Holland's Conference talk - loved it!). Most people with mental illnesses are not at their worst for their whole lives, at least not if they get help and support. The burden on loved ones is larger when they need to be supportive while not truly being able to understand where the loved one is coming from unless they have the same problem, but practicing the Christlike virtues of suffering long, being kind and compassionate, forgiving, and loving are still relevant. I agree with the others that you try everything you can to save relationships before giving up. You probably don't want NaggingWife to just write him off along with his baggage as hopeless, but that's how it came across. Truth is that we all have baggage of one kind or another. Spouses trade off being strong and weak sometimes; that's normal.

  • SenoraJefe orem, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    I was 22 when my first husband stepped out of our marriage. It's awful. Don't do it. A video game addiction or depression is not a good reason to divorce. Love is an action, not something that happens to you. Love your husband even when he's hard to love. I didn't have any kids either when I divorced, and it broke my heart that another marriage was lost, my marriage. A childless marriage is definitely worth saving. I'm 24 now and just remarried a wonderful and righteous man, far better than my ex.... But my divorce shouldn't have happened. I think Heavenly Father blessed me so much because of my strong belief in marriage and my disgust for divorce. Your marriage can be good, maybe even great. And don't expect a perfect marriage, that would require two perfect people and nobody is perfect.

  • Paddycakes South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    What sayeth the Lord. Firstly, contrary to popular opinion, God says that if a man finds displeasure in his wife, he should give her a writ of divorce.

    Proverbs 6:17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue Proverbs 6:24 keeping you from the immoral woman, from the smooth tongue of the wayward wife.

    I remember reading the Denver Post, that the number ONE complaint of was that their wife nags.

    Remember, God placed man as head of the house, has Christ is head of the Church, i.e., the man is the representative of Christ in the home, and the nagging wife is in rebellion against the family, the man and against Christ. Much is said in the Bible about the unbridled tongue. No man is perfect but Christ, nevertheless, the married man is yet the representative of God in the home, and nagging is rebellion against God. This Godly woman in her own words, took a tongue fast, and saved her marriage, and the article is available via Google search.

  • EngineerinSaltLake Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    Why are people telling her to give up her husband? I'm starting to believe that a temple marriage is a joke if all these early 20s are getting and contemplating divorce.

    Depression isn't who someone is, its a disease that people believe too much can be cured through a blessing or prayer. The only way he will get better is if he goes to a doctor, the same as if someone has diabetes.

  • Bifftacular Spanish Fork, Ut
    Dec. 27, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    Selfishness is the #1 marriage killer. Sounds like this guy is addicted to gaming which doesn't mean he still doesn't have a choice to do it or not. He could take some meaningful steps to show his wife his marriage means more to him than playing games like eliminate the computer, or the gaming software, or even Internet access. Those steps may be extreme but extreme might be what is needed here. If he doesn't and continues on, then he's putting himself above the marriage which goes back to my first comment about selfishness. The great marriage killer.

  • Paddycakes South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    This appears to be a little sexist, on behalf of the women. She's the nagger, he wants refuge from it, and the focus is upon the women for solace.

  • Sneaky Jimmy Bay Area, CA
    Dec. 27, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    Please get your husband on some sort of anti-depressant. He plays video games constantly because he has anxiety and depression. Gaming gives you a "high" and makes you feel good about yourself. Get him on some medication. You may have to experiment until you find the right one for him.

  • midvale guy MIDVALE, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    @ A Scientist

    I am happy that your marriage has went well for 30 years. I have also been married for 30 years this coming year. I agree that a joy filled life is the goal. I did talk of God and marriage being a spiritual experience. Your " disappointment with religious people" is simply that. The only person that brought up righteousness was you. I'm sure you have had some struggles 30 years of marriage and were able to overcome them without God's help evidently. I have personally found it easier to ask for help from God. To be honest, I couldn't stop drinking without it and I would not be celebrating 30 years marriage this coming year. in fact, I may not even be alive now without it.

  • Girl Talk Farmington, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    I would like to refer to the comment I made on the original article. People do not change - unless they want to, or have a desire to change. The fact that he revealed he suffered from depression prior to the marriage, is an indication that this is who he is. You have seen (early on fortunately) who he is. You can decided to live with this or move on. The key is wether or not he is willing to put forth effort on his part, to improve the situation. So often those suffering from depression will turn to tools to deal with or escape from their feelings. Those tools include drugs, alcohol, and even video games. He is using video games as his tool to escape from (or avoid) the reality of his depressive state. I have to agree somewhat with the scientist (although he does not completely understand the importance of spirituality and relationships). If you are not both striving to make each other happy, you will have a long and miserable existance, and that unhappiness will carry on to your future children, if you stay with this man in this siuation.

  • Big C Murray, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    A marriage relationship is worth saving, yes. It is worth fighting for. But there comes a point where one person in that relationship has done everything they possibly could... turned over every stone to try to salvage, fix, improve. But, when there is another person in that relationship who (for whatever reason) does not do the same, then there is no relationship. There is no marriage. Something so impossibly out of balance cannot continue "forever." I was in one of these out of balance relationships for over 20 years before I came to that conclusion (or admitted it, actually. I was in denial that my relationship might possibly end). I did absolutely everything I could do. The other person wasn't as invested as I was. Period. That was/is painful to deal with. It is not you. It is them. Until this husband puts forth some genuine effort himself, out of his own free will, the wife can go to any sort of therapist, bishop, lawyer she wants (even with the husband in tow) and she won't be able to "fix it."

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    Dec. 27, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    I'm surprised that there aren't more comments about children who will be greatly affected by the nature of the relationship between the parents. Consider your children. Even if you really love the guy, what kind of father will he be? That, to me, is the most important question. Don't risk the happiness of your children on a hope that he might get his act together.

  • LDS Aerospace Engineer Farmington, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    I commented on the last article --
    the naggingwife, who neverthinks I'm good enough.
    [married30yrs, work50+hrs/week, goodmoney, HighPriest, TempleWorker, 4grownkids - all RM's, templemarried, eaglesscouts, etc.]

    Years ago, I'd had it -
    I went to our good Bishop.

    I'll share the advise he gave me.
    He asked:

    "Have you done EVERYTHING you can to save this marriage?
    Because one day, Christ will that same question.
    If you can look Him straight in the eye and say without any reservation -
    Yes,
    then he'll be good with it [meaning, divorce].

    He doesn't want us to quit because it's the easy way out.
    Life is a test, and the Lord must have seen YOU as the blessing SHE desperately needed.

    But, He understands we all have our limits.
    and once you think you're there, the Spirit will let you know."

    20 years later, I ponder those words daily.
    One day at a time.

    FYI - We are still together.
    Goodtimes, andquitefrankly -- bad.

    But I better understand the Gospel,
    and I more fully appreciate the Atonement,
    which will make ALL things right in the end.

    Agency, the choice is yours.

    My thoughts and prayers go out to you.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    I am disappointed that the religious people I read about here have such struggles with marriage. There is talk of god and spirituality and sin and righteousness -- none of which has ever played a role in my three decades of successful marriage.

    My LDS wife and I did not get married for the sake of marriage. We have never thought that a marriage is the thing to be saved, as if that thing is more important than the people. We fell head over heals in love with one another three decades ago, and have just continued loving.

    It has never been about god. It has never been about the chore of keeping a marriage together. It has never been about sharing "spiritual" or religious life, or about putting god first (did you marry god?!), or obeying the commandments, nor is it about our relationship conforming to some ideal that a Church or a therapist might compare us to.

    It has been about helping each other have joy in life!

    The religious idea of marriage seems to be getting in your way.

  • MKLA Santaquin, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    Is he willing to eliminate the video games from their home completely (maybe occasionally go to a friend's house to play, but keep them out of their home)? A lot of people have a problem with something that they get caught up in and it sucks away too much of their time--for some people it's video games, for some people it's Facebook, for some people it's TV, for some people it can even be spending too much time reading and too little time doing other things that need to be done. Sometimes we need to recognize our weaknesses and take steps to distance ourselves from our own personal time sucking temptations.

  • antodav TAMPA, FL
    Dec. 27, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    I'm glad she is going to give it a chance instead of giving up on it so easily as is far too common in our selfish society today. Every marriage has difficulties that have to be overcome and putting forth the effort to do so—with God's help—yields enormous blessings.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Dec. 27, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    Even if your husband gets a job tomorrow from one of those job applications that he filed out when he gave into the nagging, or maybe when he was being self motivated and not depressed, talking to at least your bishop and probably a professional counselor is very advised.

    The issues will not vanish if he starts working, although they may manifest in slightly different ways. Since he does have depression, the issue of medication should be brought up. Does he need medication? Does he have it? Does he take it?

  • Go West Taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 8:54 a.m.

    Addictions are pain management. AA or LDS Addiction Recovery Program is very helpful. It helps depression too.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Dec. 27, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    After having read the initial article and all the feedback there, I came up with another issue.

    I think there is a problem with the on-line gaming as an addictive, and withdrawing behavior. However, I am not sure that it is directly connected to the husband not getting a job. I was unemployed for a year and a half. It really helped me feel better when I went and met with a member of my ward who gave me a lot of advice on writing a better resume. It made me feel better when I went out and talked to people in person about getting a job. However I got my current job by finding a link on the LDS employment cite, applying, coming in for a test for that job, then following the advice given there to apply for a different job with the same organization (I work for Detroit Public Schools). So maybe the husband is actually doing more towards getting a job than the wife gives him credit for. That would help a lot to praise him for putting in well thought out resumes, and spending a half hour doing an online job test.

  • ca2000 West Wendover, NV
    Dec. 27, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    I have a wonderful psychiatrist through LDS Family Services, so I think a Family counselor through them would be beneficial, and individualized therapy or counseling is available also. That arrangement is made through your Bishop (or Branch President, in my case). Good luck to you; life deals us some pretty tough issues to get through.

  • midvale guy MIDVALE, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    If we are to follow God, marriage is a sacred institution and the only reason for a anyone to divorce would be sexual infidelity Or if the spouse turns away from God. Playing video games to this extent is a form of idolatry and maybe even getting married so that you can have a "woman" is also a form of that same idolatry. I believe they should seek the answer together ( through counseling and therapy if necessary) and find God and in turn they would find each other and get this out of their lives. This is a big problem in our society. with all of these forms of idolatry available from when we are very young we do not follow the word of God and all of the isms follow. I understand addiction very well, I'm a recovering alcoholic and parts of this story are my own.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Dec. 27, 2013 8:04 a.m.

    Talking to a bishop is good and needed. However talking to a marriage counselor is absolutely needed. No matter what the bishop says, talking to a marriage counselor is needed. However talking to a marriage counselor is not enough.

    The husband needs individualized counseling for his issues separate from the marriage counseling. He may also need psychiatric help. I feel bold in saying these things because I need both these, and still think my marriage might have survived if we had ever gone to marriage counseling, at least I would not have that doubt.

    Lastly thought, the husband here is addicted to video games. Let me repeat he has an addiction. Part of me wonders if there may be other addictions and is afraid what will happen if all is revealed. However even if it is just video games, he needs help specifically with his addiction. I would strongly recommend that he goes to the LDS Church's Addiction Recovery Program. Even if he is not yet willing to admit video games is an addiction, I would recommend the wife seek out a Family Support Group of an ARP to attend so she can better understand the issues of addiction.

  • Spikey Layton, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 8:01 a.m.

    Love and luck to you honey! It sounds like you have your head on straight.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Dec. 27, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    This reminds me a lot of the situation I was in with my ex-wife, at least the depression, although I doubt I would be described as totally lazy, just too prone to anger.

    The fact of the matter is that in LDS theology the thing to save is the marriage. Especially if the marriage was in the temple. We make solemn covenants before God there. Divorcing is a violation of those covenants. Is it justified in some cases. Yes. However there is clearly something worth saving, and putting forth effort and trying to save it is the key.

    I know I am being very daring by making this post. I have spent the last nearly nine years trying to figure out how I could have done better than I did and avoided my marriage collapsing. OK, when I was not just trying to avoid thinking of it at all. It hurt, and it probably partly happened because of things than were not understood then. I just hope this couple avoids that course. I think they will both regret divorcing over "laziness", especially if there is clinical depression involved.

  • 1Observer Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    One of the tragedies of our electronic world is that we are losing our ability to stay personally connected to people. It is ironic that these tools are supposed to help us "stay connected." In my own life I try to avoid drive-throughs so i can connect with merchants face-to-face. I am trying to avoid texting where a phone call would work. With my children I forced them to turn off games, iPods, etc and have a conversation. All of us need to turn off the electronic world and re-connect with people on a personal, face-to-face level. It will make for a fuller, richer life and hopefully will lead to less of the kinds of situation this young woman faces. It is tough for a real-life person, in a real-life relationship with real-life challenges to compete with a fantasy game designed to help people escape or avoid reality. Best of luck to this couple.

  • ohiowhit New Albany, OH
    Dec. 27, 2013 7:24 a.m.

    When my marriage was ending, I did the same thing she has decided to do - gave every possible effort to save it. That way if it does end, you can have relative peace knowing you did all you could. Love is a choice, and marriage is a choice. Two people who decide to stay married and in love will always stay married and in love. But it does take two making the commitment and effort. I hope you stay together!

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 6:07 a.m.

    Prepare for the worst but hope for the best.